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Author Topic: Orichalcum Dwarf Fortress v 3.0.0  (Read 57912 times)

Dirst

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Re: Orichalcum Dwarf Fortress v 2.1.0
« Reply #135 on: December 21, 2015, 09:45:24 am »

I would say to avoid mithril because it's become fairly generic and already exists in some other mods, but a metal that only the kitsune can refine might be a nice touch.

I know a tad about how kitsune are portrayed in mythology, but not anime.

1. Shape-shifting can be done with raw-modding, but it is overpowered (the creature is fully healed every time it changes shape).  If that doesn't bother you, make a greeting interaction that can only target a single major race, giving that person an interaction that can transform a kitsune into their race.  Add versions for each major race, and you have kitsune who blend in so long as the population is homogenous.
2. I'm curious what would happen if a playable race had the [MISCHEVOUS] tag.  I recommend keeping each lever behind a forbidden door.  And possibly a moat.
3. You cannot change the bodyplan with age (unless you do transformations, which have their own problems), but you can change the color pattern of a tissue using the same mechanism that turns hair gray.  Make custom color patterns that correspond to having "numbered one", "numbered two", "numbered three", ... "numbered nine" tails and fiddle with the TLCM_NOUN to get something appropriately odd like "tails are numbered five" that advances with age.  I can't think of a way to get one tail to use proper grammar in that system, but there might be some other approach that works just as well.
4. Bewitching, possessing, etc. probably require DFHack.
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Immortal-D

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Re: Orichalcum Dwarf Fortress v 2.1.0
« Reply #136 on: December 21, 2015, 10:22:46 am »

I know you're modeling real-world values for Cupronickel.  However, gameplay-wise, it is incredibly easy to make.  Would it be possible to have the alloy require multiple bars and/or flux stone?  A resource-intensive alternative to Steel would be ok, as that would prevent you from spamming it too early.  On the subject of Mithril, that's fair.  I would still like to see at least 1 other edge weapon weapon metal added, since all of the new stuff is for blunt & armor.

As to new races- I think Kobolds would make a good first step.  They are part of vanilla DF, so developing them as a race shouldn't be considered going against the realism of DF.  Masterwork has a good Kobold Fortress, you could look at that as a basis for developing Orichalcum Kobolds.  I was never big on random animal-people being part of Fortress Mode, just not my style.  Speaking personally, I would much rather see your efforts directed to more traditional / 'realistic' fantasy race like Kobold or Orc.

Evaris

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Re: Orichalcum Dwarf Fortress v 2.1.0
« Reply #137 on: December 21, 2015, 11:20:37 am »

I would say to avoid mithril because it's become fairly generic and already exists in some other mods, but a metal that only the kitsune can refine might be a nice touch.

I know a tad about how kitsune are portrayed in mythology, but not anime.

1. Shape-shifting can be done with raw-modding, but it is overpowered (the creature is fully healed every time it changes shape).  If that doesn't bother you, make a greeting interaction that can only target a single major race, giving that person an interaction that can transform a kitsune into their race.  Add versions for each major race, and you have kitsune who blend in so long as the population is homogenous.
2. I'm curious what would happen if a playable race had the [MISCHEVOUS] tag.  I recommend keeping each lever behind a forbidden door.  And possibly a moat.
3. You cannot change the bodyplan with age (unless you do transformations, which have their own problems), but you can change the color pattern of a tissue using the same mechanism that turns hair gray.  Make custom color patterns that correspond to having "numbered one", "numbered two", "numbered three", ... "numbered nine" tails and fiddle with the TLCM_NOUN to get something appropriately odd like "tails are numbered five" that advances with age.  I can't think of a way to get one tail to use proper grammar in that system, but there might be some other approach that works just as well.
4. Bewitching, possessing, etc. probably require DFHack.
1,  I'd be unlikely to go for shapeshifting, or try to make multiple variations.  As much as I'd like to go with the traditional model of kitsune, I think that would be a bit.. out there on the overall complexity and power scale in DF.  Seeing Immortal-D complain about cupronickel being overpowered, makes me fear what that would do.  So... figure more long-lived anthropomorphic fox people with a single tail, rather than shapeshifting magic-using prankster fox demigod level spirits. 
2.  I... might actually pull that mischevous tag, just to see, if I added it. 
3.  I do think that may be overly complex? 
4.  Yeah.. trying to hold off on the innate magic side of things, as covered above, with the present DF model.  Years ago I made fireball throwing, shapeshifting fox people for DF 2012 (files since lost)  and... well, adventure mode was OP, world gen saw them basically own everything, and fortress mode was... interesting to watch? 

I know you're modeling real-world values for Cupronickel.  However, gameplay-wise, it is incredibly easy to make.  Would it be possible to have the alloy require multiple bars and/or flux stone?  A resource-intensive alternative to Steel would be ok, as that would prevent you from spamming it too early.  On the subject of Mithril, that's fair.  I would still like to see at least 1 other edge weapon weapon metal added, since all of the new stuff is for blunt & armor.

As to new races- I think Kobolds would make a good first step.  They are part of vanilla DF, so developing them as a race shouldn't be considered going against the realism of DF.  Masterwork has a good Kobold Fortress, you could look at that as a basis for developing Orichalcum Kobolds.  I was never big on random animal-people being part of Fortress Mode, just not my style.  Speaking personally, I would much rather see your efforts directed to more traditional / 'realistic' fantasy race like Kobold or Orc.

It already does require multiple bars - 3 copper and 1 nickel bar.  (75/25)  Flux stone is not needed in real life, as they are metals which naturally alloy well.. Realistically speaking, the only reason cupronickel wasn't more common in histortical use and such is because most nickel ore is really hard to visually distinguish.  Garneterite and baitong are exceptions, but one is rare to see surface-reaching veins of, and the other is only found in a particular area of china and was declared something to be kept secret for over a thousand years save for select smiths.

So.. yeah.  As for kobold realism, I.. honestly see kitsune as more realistic than kobolds, given mammalian intelligence.  (I wouldn't be planning on going all out there on the magic side of things.)  As for traditional fantasy race, fox spirits and fox people have stories in every culture on the planet.  They might not have a large presence in the more modern Tolkien - and - DnD inspired fantasy, but as far as fantasy stories are concerned, they are fairly traditional. 
 
That stated, would be quite willing to go for Kobold first as a lower tech / higher challenge race type thing. 
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Immortal-D

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Re: Orichalcum Dwarf Fortress v 2.1.0
« Reply #138 on: December 21, 2015, 11:38:12 am »

Hunh.  When I made Cupronickel, I didn't even notice the extra bars needed since the base metals are so plentiful.  Although I play with Scarcity 1200, so I tend to have a good distribution of resources.

Dirst

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Re: Orichalcum Dwarf Fortress v 2.1.0
« Reply #139 on: December 21, 2015, 11:54:13 am »

I understand not bringing in the magic stuff.  Thought there might be some anime-specific tropes that would make sense (though my knowledge of anime is... lacking), and the tail thing would be unique.  This is how hair changes color in vanilla:

Code: [Select]
[TL_COLOR_MODIFIER:GRAY:1]
[TLCM_NOUN:hair:SINGULAR]
[TLCM_TIMING:ROOT:80:0:130:0]
[TL_COLOR_MODIFIER:WHITE:1]
[TLCM_NOUN:hair:SINGULAR]
[TLCM_TIMING:ROOT:130:0:150:0]

I don't know if the ROOT thing is required or not, or if there are other options.  The way to do it would be to ensure all kitsune are born with "number one" tails, and advances as they get older.

Code: [Select]
[TL_COLOR_MODIFIER:NUMBERS_TWO:1]
[TLCM_NOUN:tails:PLURAL]
[TLCM_TIMING:ROOT:30:0:50:0]
[TL_COLOR_MODIFIER:NUMBERS_THREE:1]
[TLCM_NOUN:tails:PLURAL]
[TLCM_TIMING:ROOT:50:0:70:0]
[TL_COLOR_MODIFIER:NUMBERS_FOUR:1]
[TLCM_NOUN:tails:PLURAL]
[TLCM_TIMING:ROOT:70:0:90:0]
[TL_COLOR_MODIFIER:NUMBERS_FIVE:1]
[TLCM_NOUN:tails:PLURAL]
[TLCM_TIMING:ROOT:90:0:110:0]
[TL_COLOR_MODIFIER:NUMBERS_SIX:1]
[TLCM_NOUN:tails:PLURAL]
[TLCM_TIMING:ROOT:110:0:130:0]
[TL_COLOR_MODIFIER:NUMBERS_SEVEN:1]
[TLCM_NOUN:tails:PLURAL]
[TLCM_TIMING:ROOT:130:0:150:0]
[TL_COLOR_MODIFIER:NUMBERS_EIGHT:1]
[TLCM_NOUN:tails:PLURAL]
[TLCM_TIMING:ROOT:150:0:170:0]
[TL_COLOR_MODIFIER:NUMBERS_NINE:1]
[TLCM_NOUN:tails:PLURAL]
[TLCM_TIMING:ROOT:170:0:500:0]
You can experiment with using SINGULAR at first then switching to PLURAL with the second tail, but no idea if that would work.  These would be color patterns so that they can be used in descriptions but won't show up in preferences.  That is, no "Urist prefers <blah blah blah>, the color numbers six, and dragons for their terrible majesty." 

In any case, the creature really only has one TAIL bodypart (though you might refer to it in the plural to keep combat logs consistent).
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Evaris

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Re: Orichalcum Dwarf Fortress v 2.1.0
« Reply #140 on: December 21, 2015, 12:38:27 pm »

I understand not bringing in the magic stuff.  Thought there might be some anime-specific tropes that would make sense (though my knowledge of anime is... lacking), and the tail thing would be unique.  This is how hair changes color in vanilla:

Code: [Select]
[TL_COLOR_MODIFIER:GRAY:1]
[TLCM_NOUN:hair:SINGULAR]
[TLCM_TIMING:ROOT:80:0:130:0]
[TL_COLOR_MODIFIER:WHITE:1]
[TLCM_NOUN:hair:SINGULAR]
[TLCM_TIMING:ROOT:130:0:150:0]

I don't know if the ROOT thing is required or not, or if there are other options.  The way to do it would be to ensure all kitsune are born with "number one" tails, and advances as they get older.

Code: [Select]
[TL_COLOR_MODIFIER:NUMBERS_TWO:1]
[TLCM_NOUN:tails:PLURAL]
[TLCM_TIMING:ROOT:30:0:50:0]
[TL_COLOR_MODIFIER:NUMBERS_THREE:1]
[TLCM_NOUN:tails:PLURAL]
[TLCM_TIMING:ROOT:50:0:70:0]
[TL_COLOR_MODIFIER:NUMBERS_FOUR:1]
[TLCM_NOUN:tails:PLURAL]
[TLCM_TIMING:ROOT:70:0:90:0]
[TL_COLOR_MODIFIER:NUMBERS_FIVE:1]
[TLCM_NOUN:tails:PLURAL]
[TLCM_TIMING:ROOT:90:0:110:0]
[TL_COLOR_MODIFIER:NUMBERS_SIX:1]
[TLCM_NOUN:tails:PLURAL]
[TLCM_TIMING:ROOT:110:0:130:0]
[TL_COLOR_MODIFIER:NUMBERS_SEVEN:1]
[TLCM_NOUN:tails:PLURAL]
[TLCM_TIMING:ROOT:130:0:150:0]
[TL_COLOR_MODIFIER:NUMBERS_EIGHT:1]
[TLCM_NOUN:tails:PLURAL]
[TLCM_TIMING:ROOT:150:0:170:0]
[TL_COLOR_MODIFIER:NUMBERS_NINE:1]
[TLCM_NOUN:tails:PLURAL]
[TLCM_TIMING:ROOT:170:0:500:0]
You can experiment with using SINGULAR at first then switching to PLURAL with the second tail, but no idea if that would work.  These would be color patterns so that they can be used in descriptions but won't show up in preferences.  That is, no "Urist prefers <blah blah blah>, the color numbers six, and dragons for their terrible majesty." 

In any case, the creature really only has one TAIL bodypart (though you might refer to it in the plural to keep combat logs consistent).

Well, I may be able to think of a few anime-specific tropes, but we'll see where things get by the end of the christmas weekend as far as what I decide to include and what ends up becoming debatable.  As for the tails... Yeaah I just don't see hair color descriptions being what I'd want to go for.  I'll likely leave it at one tail for simplicity's, and realism's sake. 

As things stand at the moment of posting, everything from 2.1 should copied over with compatibility with 3.0, but have yet to do any testing.  I'll probably run a fort for a few years, then start working on kobolds and kitsune?  Not sure where it will be going in general.
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Evaris

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Re: Orichalcum Dwarf Fortress v 2.1.0
« Reply #141 on: December 21, 2015, 12:43:52 pm »

Hunh.  When I made Cupronickel, I didn't even notice the extra bars needed since the base metals are so plentiful.  Although I play with Scarcity 1200, so I tend to have a good distribution of resources.

And here I don't find nickel all that often.  Then again, my forts tend to be horizontal rather than vertical, so.. yeah I tend to find myself only having access to the first few layers of minerals, until I hit FPS death. 

you know, just for that point, I'm going to make my next testing fort a vertical 1x1 embark. 
« Last Edit: December 21, 2015, 12:47:55 pm by Evaris »
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Evaris

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Re: Orichalcum Dwarf Fortress v 2.1.0
« Reply #142 on: December 27, 2015, 01:28:44 am »

So, status update. 

Most everything seems to be working just fine except... merchants show up on a regular basis on fire. 

Should anyone wish to help me figure out just what exactly is causing this, it would be appreciated. 
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BlackFlyme

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Re: Orichalcum Dwarf Fortress v 2.1.0
« Reply #143 on: December 27, 2015, 06:06:36 pm »

My guess is that a common trade item has a high fixed-temp or a boiling point that is too low, and is accidentally combusting or causing other items to combust once it is loaded onto the map.
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Evaris

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Re: Orichalcum Dwarf Fortress v 2.1.0
« Reply #144 on: December 27, 2015, 06:37:05 pm »

My guess is that a common trade item has a high fixed-temp or a boiling point that is too low, and is accidentally combusting or causing other items to combust once it is loaded onto the map.

For whatever reason, apparently I did not update my inorganic:other folder... so that could be the issue with non-existent materials.  Will observe for a while to see if it happens again now. 
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Evaris

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Re: Orichalcum Dwarf Fortress v 2.1.0
« Reply #145 on: December 27, 2015, 07:29:37 pm »

Update:  Got another flaming merchant caravan.  Inorganic:other was not the culprit. 
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Evaris

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Re: Orichalcum Dwarf Fortress v 2.1.0
« Reply #146 on: December 27, 2015, 07:31:00 pm »

Update:  Got another flaming merchant caravan.  Inorganic:other was not the culprit.

Edit:  I see magma in my stocks screen.  So.. what could be causing that?
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BlackFlyme

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Re: Orichalcum Dwarf Fortress v 2.1.0
« Reply #147 on: December 27, 2015, 07:33:48 pm »

May be an improper inorganic:x somewhere. A mispelling or some other error causing the game to load in INORGANIC:NONE, which is magma.
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Evaris

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Re: Orichalcum Dwarf Fortress v 2.1.0
« Reply #148 on: August 03, 2016, 12:07:38 am »

Right, well, sorry for the inactivity.  As an update, I had a revision for the new version working on, but my hard drive kinda... died.

So, when my replacement drive gets here, I'll see if I'm able to restore it with data recovery tools, but if not well... It'll probably be dead, or at best if there's interest, I'll port 2.1 to the new DF version.  So.. yeah. 
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Evaris

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Re: Orichalcum Dwarf Fortress v 2.1.0
« Reply #149 on: August 05, 2016, 11:20:42 pm »

Good news, data recovery was fully successful.  Expect an updated upload some time this weekend.
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