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Author Topic: Supernatural 7 - Game over - Town Win!  (Read 136413 times)

Mephansteras

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Re: Supernatural 7 - Day 2 Dawns peacefully
« Reply #495 on: June 20, 2014, 11:07:42 am »

Hey, Meph, is it possible for you to fix the quotes in my previous post where I'm talking to ZU? I don't want to repost that whole section and clog up the thread.

Huh. Yeah, I suppose I can, since it tracks who last changed a post.
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Mephansteras

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Re: Supernatural 7 - Day 2 Dawns peacefully
« Reply #496 on: June 20, 2014, 11:11:33 am »

The Scribe's Tally Sheet
flabort: notquitethere, Persus13
Jim Groovester: TheWetSheep
notquitethere: zombie urist
Persus13: Imperial Guardsman, Jim Groovester
zombie urist: Jack A.T., ToonyMan



Day ends ~4pm Pacific Monday
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Imperial Guardsman

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Re: Supernatural 7 - Day 2 Dawns peacefully
« Reply #497 on: June 20, 2014, 11:46:34 am »

Good, I'm glad you noticed the SK flip. Do you plan to use your rez as soon as a town player is lynched or dies, or as soon as a role you feel important is lynched or dies?

As for the refusal to comment on the blood clarification, I assume from your comment you need flabort alive so that you can sacrifice him. When can we expect this to happen?

As for unanswered questions, answer these older ones:
Imperial Guardsman
As two of the most experienced players
http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Appeal_to_Authority
Lol you're funny.

I take everything mafiascum says with a grain of salt because they have a distaste for the actual human element of the game, at least on the wiki pages.

Is that actually what they believe?  Is mechanical balance their mafia god?  Because that's the impression I get.
Gotcha, 4maskwolf. A little bit of appeal to emotion I think, and you are trying to hide it under the guise of a sort of breadcrumb attack? You can take that to offtopic or ask OP for permission to PM, but in the game? You are trying to make me, what, think differently or take back everything I have said today? I can see you are the confusing scum type, ready to sow confusion and chaos whenever needed?
Wait, what? You've lost me and everyone else, please explain this post a little better.

Also, you are aware that it's possible for a Supernatural game to not have third parties (ex. Supernatural 6), right?
I know supernatural has no thirds at times, I need him to help me FIGHT said god, and I will revive when I think its needed.
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flabort

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Re: Supernatural 7 - Day 2 Dawns peacefully
« Reply #498 on: June 20, 2014, 01:14:37 pm »

Flabort, give me the names of three scummy players and the reason for their scummitude in order of scummitudinacity.
I'll need to reread day 2 so far, but at a quick glance:
Toaster: Seems passive where I expect him to be aggressive, and aggressive where none is due. High content posts that are fluffier than mine. Quite possibly Cult Leader, imo.
Jim Groovester: Arguably justified, but his levels of "upset" are overblown. It may be his character to call people "DIPSHITTARD"s, but he seems to be using that to pretend to care, rather than genuinely caring.
Toonyman: A lower post count than anyone but the replacements. He seems to show up to reply to everything, and then disappears for long periods of time. However, most of his content has been reading pro town.
Shall I continue?

That's awfully optimistic at best and nearly suicidal at worst, isn't it? What happens if a townie makes a scumslip in that situation?
Then we question them and everyone else on the scumslip, until we're sure it really is a scumslip, or we determine it's not. During the course of questioning, someone else is sure to slip up if the first slip was town.

So you want everybody to claim so you can single out the power roles and do regular scumhunting on them.

But everybody in Supernatural has a power role of some kind. So you'd end up doing regular scumhunting on everybody, which is what we're already doing, except everybody is claimed.

Why don't we just cut out the unnecessary steps and just do regular scumhunting on everybody, without claiming, and this way, everybody is happy?

The mass claim isn't happening, bro.
I was going to say it's not regular scum hunting, but I guess you're somewhat right.
It basically is, but we KNOW EVERYONE'S ROLE, it turns the situation into a HIGHER PRESSURE to get the lynch RIGHT.
With regular scum hunting, everything is just a shot in the dark. The only evidence is the concrete evidence, the lines of questioning that we mostly follow resemble an Ace Attorney game. Only everyone is a prosecutor AND the judge. Which is quite silly, but true.
With everyone role claimed, the game can proceed more like a real court. Only now everyone is the Jury and the Defendant.

I guess you are right, though, the mass claim isn't happening, so I may as well drop the subject, right? Wouldn't you like that? Fine.

Flabort:
Then I'm just going to go with my gut. Toaster. I can't support my case against him, but I suspect him more than I do Jim or Jiokuy. Or NQT or IG, TWS, Toony, or Zombie for that matter. My gut says Toasty is scum. My (flawed) scumometer says Jim and Toony are scum. The evidence seems to say that the scum is not who is being most scummy (NQT, Jim, Jiokuy). So I'm going with my gut in this short time.
Why Toaster instead of someone else? And why do you cite NQT, Jim and Jiokuy as evidence of scummy non-scum when none of them are confirmed town, then and now? Why does your scum meter say Toony is scum?

So I guess I'm asking for a Mass Claim.
Why early mass-claim is bad.
1. Scum can easily pull off a fake-claim (ex. Tiruin in Supernatural 6 fakeclaimed Dreamwalker? [Not sure which role specifically]), especially since only one needs to do so.
2. Scum then targets dangerous/useful power roles with their kill or convert. (For instance, if you're town, I highly doubt scum will convert or kill you because your claimed role is more useless then dangerous)
Because my gut honestly believes toaster to be scum. If I put my vote on the current wagon it would look scummy, if I put my vote on ZU it would look scummy, if I put my vote back on Jim, it would look scummy, if I put my vote on IG, it would just look plain dumb, if I put my vote on Tirun (now Hapah), it would look like I'm lazy, etc.
My only choices were Ottofar and Toaster, and I don't feel like Ottofar is as scum as Toaster. Ottofar may be scum, but Toaster is the scum leader.

NQT seemed scummy at the time, because half the players seemed to have some sort of minor or major case on him at the time. I saw no evidence to that. I felt Jim was scummy at the time, but no one else was able or willing to find evidence to the fact, and my evidence was poor. Jiokuy, was the leading wagon at the time, so seemed scummy to others. But I again didn't see the evidence to this, and he flipped SK, not scum.

See above for why Toony is maybe scum.

1) Easily? What perfect role out there can scum "Easily" fake claim? Most fake claims I've seen have been pretty touch-and-go.
2) Assuming they have a kill or convert left. Which they won't if we - never mind. Ugh.

Toaster
You said yesterday that my scum hunting methodology is flawed. You probably still think so. How can you prove that yours is not? You were voting Toonyman yesterday, for "pretending to commit", or "not committing". The way I see it you have been doing more or less the same. I don't mean committing to a lynch, but committing to your stance.

Zombie Urist What method for scum hunting do you feel is best for tracking down a possible cult team?

Imperial Guardsman Enough with the short contentless posts. Quoting yourself will not answer their questions to their satisfaction. Try rewording what you want to say, and then repeating it, followed by another paraphrase of what you're saying. "If it still doesn't satisfy your pursuers, change tact". And if that tactic doesn't work, try something else. Right now, even if you are by definition MY ally, you're grating on my nerves. Sorry.
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Toaster

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Re: Supernatural 7 - Day 2 Dawns peacefully
« Reply #499 on: June 20, 2014, 02:59:13 pm »

Going to be tonight at best before I can post.
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Hapah

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Re: Supernatural 7 - Day 2 Dawns peacefully
« Reply #500 on: June 20, 2014, 04:29:18 pm »

PFP

Quote from: NQT
Hapah, are you intending on forming a case and voting someone today?
I'm gonna try, but life is being more difficult than I thought it would be! Weekend should be fairly tame, though, so I can probably give this game a little time on Sat/Sun if nothing else.

Quote from: Persus
When do you plan on finishing your read list.
Have you read through any of the previous Supernaturals?
If you had to day kill someone now, that wasn't IG, who would you pick?
In order: when I can find the time, no, and probably Ottofar (and on that last one, before you say anything: when the pot calls the kettle black, the kettle is still black). If not him then maybe you or flabort.
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ToonyMan

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Re: Supernatural 7 - Day 1 - [1 REPLACEMENT NEEDED]
« Reply #501 on: June 20, 2014, 05:53:22 pm »

@Persus13:
ZU:
Ohh looking at Toasters post I noticed another smallNQT contradiction He said to Toaster he was unsure of end time which is why he asked but said to me if nothing else happened that day IG would be lynched.
Elaborate and quote please.
He's talking about Toaster's post here. Which I actually think is a totally valid point. However, it's still Toaster's reasoning, not ZU's. So he's being incredibly lazy again.

IG:
Imperial Guardsman: other than flailing about and shouting in all caps, how are you going to earn your survival through this day?
I already told you that Im acting as a Priest for the town, I just want flabort alive.
Why did you decide not to rez last night?
I would suspect IG more of being the body snatcher.



@Jack AT:
1. Jiokuy is his partner and he can divert the lynch onto somebody else to save him.
ToonyMan: And do you think there is a significant chance of NQT being the partner of the SK Jiokuy?  Because I rather doubt that Jiokuy had a partner, what with him being an SK.  If you do think there is, why?  If you don't, then what is this doing in an explanation of a scum read you posted today (with the knowledge that Jiokuy was a serial killer) in response to a question today?
I don't believe Jiokuy had any partners. I'd rather have a complete line of reasoning.



@Zombie Urist:
Do you think Persus13 and NQT are both scum? Who's worse?



@Notquitethere:
Toony
If NQT is scum:
1. Jiokuy is his partner and he can divert the lynch onto somebody else to save him.
2. Jiokuy is not his partner (town or a third-party), but NQT has become aware what Jiokuy is because he claimed and/or decided it would be better to switch the lynch onto somebody else who might be more dangerous.

Anybody else could join your vote-switching wagon if they're either your scum partners, or town who have become jumpy because of the last minute changes and are second guessing themselves. Not cool.
Yes but you plainly know that 1 is false, and why would a scum player (let alone a cultist) want to preserve the life of a killer? (Maybe to night-convert them? But Meph confirmed last night that you can't convert monster hunters, and so my guess is serial killers likewise cannot be converted.)
We shall ask then.

@MOD MEPH:
Could a Werebear be converted by a cult or something?

Toony, what do you think of ZU's sexton claims?
I have actually been a Cult Sexton in Supernatural 2. I remember being pretty open about my sightings, so I wouldn't trust ZU's alignment just because he claimed, but he's most probably a real sexton.



@TheWetSheep:
Have any reads or did everybody else get to them first?
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Jim Groovester

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Re: Supernatural 7 - Day 2 Dawns peacefully
« Reply #502 on: June 20, 2014, 05:54:51 pm »

Meph, please prod Ottofar. He has yet to post today.

IG:

. . .

Why did you decide not to rez last night?

Why did you ask the third party reviver why he didn't revive the third party SK?

I'm certain at this point that NQT is at least an SK. Especially with Jiokuy's body being gone. I will also note that NQT doesn't deny doing anything to the body.

That doesn't mean anything. Aside from his lack of denial (which, again, doesn't mean anything), is there any reason you have for thinking NQT has anything to do with the missing body?

Because I was waiting for an explanation about that and then you disappoint me.

Persus' posts
More of Persus' posts

I fail to see what this is supposed to prove. I've always maintained that picking at people post by post is an ineffective way of scumhunting, and if you look through everybody's posts you are going to find examples of weak posts.

I agree that Persus13's scumhunting has been unremarkable but I don't see how all these posts are supposed to demonstrate that.

Jim
I'm looking at your explanation here and I don't see a part where you explain why ZU's claim is dubious.
There's been no resurrection and a ghoul seems unlikely given that we've already lynched one serial killer. A scum priest could have attempted to resurrect the Werebear to get a powerful ally, and that could have failed. Bizarrely, ZU uses this to segue into voting me again.

Are these reasons why you think zombie urist is fake claiming?

If your answer is yes, then I will ask: why would a sexton ever fake claim?

Jim, if you had to bet on the scum team right now, who would it be?

Persus13, zombie urist, TheWetSheep, with Toaster being the new convert.

I have reasons, but they are bad. This is why looking for scumteams is silly and is something I do not do nor do I generally care to see.

Reads Analysis

Is there anybody whose reads you like?

Imperial Guardsman, if you had a kill, who would you use it on?
ZU or Jim, most likely.

And not the person you're voting?

Okay.

Because my gut honestly believes toaster to be scum. If I put my vote on the current wagon it would look scummy, if I put my vote on ZU it would look scummy, if I put my vote back on Jim, it would look scummy, if I put my vote on IG, it would just look plain dumb, if I put my vote on Tirun (now Hapah), it would look like I'm lazy, etc.
My only choices were Ottofar and Toaster, and I don't feel like Ottofar is as scum as Toaster. Ottofar may be scum, but Toaster is the scum leader.

Why is looking scummy such an important consideration for where you place your vote?
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Mephansteras

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Re: Supernatural 7 - Day 1 - [1 REPLACEMENT NEEDED]
« Reply #503 on: June 20, 2014, 06:01:15 pm »

The Scribe's Tally Sheet
flabort: notquitethere, Persus13
Jim Groovester: TheWetSheep
notquitethere: zombie urist
Persus13: Imperial Guardsman, Jim Groovester
Toaster: flabort
zombie urist: Jack A.T., ToonyMan



Day ends ~4pm Pacific Monday


Ottofar has been Prodded


@MOD MEPH:
Could a Werebear be converted by a cult or something?
Attempting to convert 3rd parties can have unusual effects.
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4maskwolf

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Re: Supernatural 7 - Day 2 Dawns peacefully
« Reply #504 on: June 20, 2014, 06:03:09 pm »

Why do I feel like Mephansteras is more active than half the players..

Mephansteras

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Re: Supernatural 7 - Day 2 Dawns peacefully
« Reply #505 on: June 20, 2014, 06:04:55 pm »

Why do I feel like Mephansteras is more active than half the players..

Probably because I just have to skim posts looking for stuff in Red and update a spreadsheet with votes.

Actually playing mafia takes a lot more energy during the day phase. My work all happens during the night phase. ;)
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TheWetSheep

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Re: Supernatural 7 - Day 2 Dawns peacefully
« Reply #506 on: June 20, 2014, 06:40:05 pm »

NQT:
Oh no! I'm coming across as Too Townie! Uh... so you're saying you'd rather I not be helpful? It's something anyone could do, sure, but it's still something that should be done. And it's not everything I'm doing.
How do you parse "Too Townie" from "he's hiding under a bunch of content that could be done by scum as well as town"?

Here are your posts since I joined with game analysis/read compilation, answers, useless stuff and clarifications removed:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I think I got everything. The first post is OK, making a case on Jiokuy. The second one is a bit more at Jiokuy and a softball at IG. The third is a bunch of questions without pressure or substance behind them. The fourth doesn't really contain any pressure either - it's mostly response. So yeah, there's not much there.

Sheep, yeah I suspect [ZU] a small amount less but I always do when someone makes a conscious effort to up their game.
Blowing off my question like this comes off as not caring much about the actual substance of your case, but keeping it as a reserve to go after.

Quote
And why do you love ZU so much?
Pressuring you on two valid points about the same person is not hugely important.

Quote
And now you're concerned his dubious Sexton claim be taken seriously. I want to hear his clarifications before I take this claim with more than a pinch of salt. We've killed one murderous third party and there's been no night kills so a ghoul is highly improbably. No one's been resurrected, so a town priest raising Jiokuy is out the question, so what else could have moved the body? The only explanation I can think of is if a scum priest raised Jiokuy and the resurrection failed, destroying the body and any kind of scum team can do that.
I'm not saying it should be taken as definite truth, but should at least be considered. And you didn't say anything about disbelieving it when you addressed him about it.

Jim:
Dammit all the good pressure points are taken before I get to post.

When you say things like this it makes me think you're scum looking for ways to look town rather than town trying to scumhunt.
Why are you softballing?

There's no point in going after people for what's already been addressed, and people(NQT) are complaining about my lack of cases, so yes I want to find something.

Quote
Jim: Why are you so sure there's a cult?

Because no N1 kill + starting SK. If you're going to tell me there is no cult, I will first ask you how you know, and then I will be happy.

Playing against cults is town hard mode so I'd rather there wasn't a cult but I think it's likely that there is one.

I fail to see your reasons for voting me.
1. There's only one way you could know for certain there's a cult.
2. If there is a cult, you'd be high on the list for conversion targets.
3. You spent D1 going after a new player. You're experienced enough to be able to get good reads out of more inscrutable players; why didn't you?(This wasn't one of my reasons for voting you in the first place)

Toonyman:
Quote
@TheWetSheep:
Have any reads or did everybody else get to them first?
I'm working on it(read my posts). I haven't been in a mafia-playing mood recently - it took me a while today to work up the dedication to make this post. School finished recently, exams are happening and I'm feeling lethargic.

Jim Groovester

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Re: Supernatural 7 - Day 2 Dawns peacefully
« Reply #507 on: June 20, 2014, 07:27:10 pm »

Why are you softballing?

There's no point in going after people for what's already been addressed, and people(NQT) are complaining about my lack of cases, so yes I want to find something.

That's exactly my problem with what you said. You want people to visibly see you pressing cases. It's not about scumhunting for you, it's about appearances, and that's scummy as hell.

I called you scummy for doing something I thought was scummy. How is this softballing?

1. There's only one way you could know for certain there's a cult.
2. If there is a cult, you'd be high on the list for conversion targets.
3. You spent D1 going after a new player. You're experienced enough to be able to get good reads out of more inscrutable players; why didn't you?(This wasn't one of my reasons for voting you in the first place)

1. Yes, this is true. But what makes you think I know there is a cult for certain? I do not know for certain, but it's not like thinking there is a cult when there's no N1 kill is an uncommon deduction. Why don't you take a look at all the people who made the same deduction?
2. Yes, arguably true. But that isn't a reason to vote for me. I guess it's convenient to cover your bases by saying 'if he wasn't already on the cult team then he certainly is now' but that's lazy reasoning. If I'm a convert then I'm not the person you really need to be lynching, so you should probably nail down your stance on whether I'm a convert or whether I was on the original team.
3. I went after the people I suspected. These were not coincident with the people whom you deem inscrutable. Further, I see no need in meeting the expectations people have of me as an experienced player, nor is failing these expectations a scumtell.

These reasons are bad. Why did you bother asking me anything if you were just going to ignore what I had to say? I explained my reasoning for thinking there was a cult and you ignored it and went 'derp herp he's on the cult that's why he knows there's a cult.'
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Toaster

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Re: Supernatural 7 - Day 2 Dawns peacefully
« Reply #508 on: June 20, 2014, 09:27:36 pm »

Sheep:
NQT:
TheWetSheep: did you really think Ottofar was the best candidate for lynching yesterday?
Not really. I was just trying to get a read on him, and there wasn't really a danger of him being lynched. I still don't really have any leads; Ottofar doesn't look too bad.

PPE: Toaster, see answer to NQT.

So you didn't feel the need to use your vote as a lynch vote?  Noted.

Here are your posts since I joined with game analysis/read compilation, answers, useless stuff and clarifications removed:

I note you trimmed out the part where he actually took everyone's reads and analyzed them.  I agree that this wasn't worth a ton, but it wasn't useless.  Why do I get the feeling you're cherry-picking his posts to make him look bad?

There's no point in going after people for what's already been addressed, and people(NQT) are complaining about my lack of cases, so yes I want to find something.

Is it because you're coming up with content entirely to look busy and involved?  I think it is.


Hapah:
Quote from: Toaster
Hapah:  What's your preferred method of dealing with a cult?
I don't know that I've ever played with one, actually. Best way I could think of would be to look for sudden shifts in attitudes; strong-ish cases dropped or backed away from without much in the way of explanation.

Fair enough.


Flabort:
So let's say everyone claimed. Two people claim knight, someone claims another revive, and someone claims a night kill but didn't use it. We'd thoroughly question and grill those 4 people. From there, one of them is sure to make a scumslip, so we grill all four of those people on the subject of the slip, and by the end of the day we'd be fairly certain of which of the four is the cult leader (either the convert or the kill, depending on which they have). If nobody claims a protection role, then we'd know someone was probably either lying or it's for sure a convert cult, at which point we'd set up a system of checks to test for culthood.

There are an incredible number of assumptions being made here.

What if all four of those people are town?  You'd go in focusing on them, try to lynch one, miss, try another the next day, etc etc.  Eventually you'd realize that you've been barking up the wrong tree the whole game, but by then it's too late.

Toaster: Seems passive where I expect him to be aggressive, and aggressive where none is due. High content posts that are fluffier than mine. Quite possibly Cult Leader, imo.

It's almost like we have different playstyles!

Toonyman: A lower post count than anyone but the replacements. He seems to show up to reply to everything, and then disappears for long periods of time. However, most of his content has been reading pro town.

"His content is good but there's not enough of it!"

That's justification for third-scummiest player?

That's awfully optimistic at best and nearly suicidal at worst, isn't it? What happens if a townie makes a scumslip in that situation?
Then we question them and everyone else on the scumslip, until we're sure it really is a scumslip, or we determine it's not. During the course of questioning, someone else is sure to slip up if the first slip was town.

You cannot count on scum to screw up for you.  You need to MAKE them screw up.  Guess what is unlikely to happen if you're grilling a town player?  The scum screwing up.

Because my gut honestly believes toaster to be scum. If I put my vote on the current wagon it would look scummy, if I put my vote on ZU it would look scummy, if I put my vote back on Jim, it would look scummy, if I put my vote on IG, it would just look plain dumb, if I put my vote on Tirun (now Hapah), it would look like I'm lazy, etc.
My only choices were Ottofar and Toaster, and I don't feel like Ottofar is as scum as Toaster. Ottofar may be scum, but Toaster is the scum leader.

Don't forget "it looks scummy if I'm afraid to vote who I actually suspect based on what others may think."  Because that's scummy too.  Narrowing your scum targets based on who you can vote without looking back is incredibly self-serving and not at all a town play.

You're really flopping back and forth here, too; at first you're sure I'm scum, then you're explaining why you can't vote other people, then you're outright saying I'm the scum leader.  Which is it?  If you're so sure I'm scum, then it should be irrelevant why you can't vote others.

Toaster You said yesterday that my scum hunting methodology is flawed. You probably still think so. How can you prove that yours is not? You were voting Toonyman yesterday, for "pretending to commit", or "not committing". The way I see it you have been doing more or less the same. I don't mean committing to a lynch, but committing to your stance.

I can't.  I've even said several times in other games that I don't consider myself a great scum hunter.  Your reasoning here boils down to "I might be but so are you!" which is schoolyard logic.


Jim:
Toaster, you were voting ToonyMan at the end of the day. What happened to that vote? Surely without a kill to inform your reads your read on ToonyMan would be identical from the end of Day 1 to the start of Day 2, correct?

My read on him softened overnight, and I'm less sure now.  Anyway, the lack of a kill (considering the gametype) does indeed change the nature of the game, especially if there is a further lack of kill.  Been tight on time, so I'm having trouble getting hard reads everywhere- this post is an attempt to reconcile that.

Jack Should I survive to day 3, do you think my power might reveal who is in the scum team?

There's pretty much zero chance of that happening.

Him surviving to D3 or his power revealing scum?


Persus:
Flabort:
Then I'm just going to go with my gut. Toaster. I can't support my case against him, but I suspect him more than I do Jim or Jiokuy. Or NQT or IG, TWS, Toony, or Zombie for that matter. My gut says Toasty is scum. My (flawed) scumometer says Jim and Toony are scum. The evidence seems to say that the scum is not who is being most scummy (NQT, Jim, Jiokuy). So I'm going with my gut in this short time.
Why Toaster instead of someone else? And why do you cite NQT, Jim and Jiokuy as evidence of scummy non-scum when none of them are confirmed town, then and now? Why does your scum meter say Toony is scum?

Because he suspects me the most?  Why would that be an issue?  I don't understand the issues in any of this.

IG:
Imperial Guardsman: other than flailing about and shouting in all caps, how are you going to earn your survival through this day?
I already told you that Im acting as a Priest for the town, I just want flabort alive.
Why did you decide not to rez last night?

Because the only dead player is a SK?  Are you paying attention?

Good, I'm glad you noticed the SK flip. Do you plan to use your rez as soon as a town player is lynched or dies, or as soon as a role you feel important is lynched or dies?

I'm not 100% convinced I believe this was a test.  Why invest time in him anyway?  I'm currently busy ignoring him.


ZU:
I'm certain at this point that NQT is at least an SK. Especially with Jiokuy's body being gone. I will also note that NQT doesn't deny doing anything to the body.

I'm getting tired so this will be it for tonight.

Not pictured:  your logic that leads to this conclusion.


NQT:
I'm certain at this point that NQT is at least an SK. Especially with Jiokuy's body being gone. I will also note that NQT doesn't deny doing anything to the body.
I see. If Serial Killer is the best option you've come up with and we're in a game that most likely has a cult, why are you still voting me?

Very much so not pictured:  you denying the accusation.  So are you a Necromancer or a Ghoul?

Yes but you plainly know that 1 is false, a why would a scum player (let alone a cultist) want to preserve the life of a killer? (Maybe to night-convert them? But Meph confirmed last night that you can't convert monster hunters, and so my guess is serial killers likewise cannot be converted.)

What if the scum in question is NK-immune?  And "last night?"  Where is this?


I notice in your reads list that damn near everyone is some flavor of "low quality of reads."  Do you think that this means your standards are too high?  Personally, I find it difficult to maintain high-quality reads on high numbers of players.

Toaster, Jack, Jim, Hapah and Sheep are all townie in your eyes then?

Allow me to quote myself...

Also, NQT, I'm not going to enumerate people I have weak/no read on; I'm going to be hitting the high points.  If you want to know what I think about a particular player, ask me.

Since that's an ask, Jack does indeed appear fairly townie; I have no issues with his play.  Jim was light D1, but then he was busy IRL.  Today... he's really slow to start [1], but he's starting to pick up speed[2].  I'll give him the weekend to see how things change- if he keeps it up he shouldn't be a problem.  Tiruin hardly gave any content to digest and I can't read her anyway, and Hapah hasn't posted enough to cement a read; nothing of what he has said has stood out.  Sheep has gotten a couple eyebrows raised (see top of this post.) 

[1] Up to and including this post, he's mostly responding to questions.
[2] Once he adds this post, he's starting to spread his inquiries around.


Toony:  Ever since your first post of the day where you vote ZU, you've done pretty much nothing besides answer questions.  What are you doing to get ZU lynched?  Who else would you not mind seeing lynched?
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HMR stands for Hazardous Materials Requisition, not Horrible Massive Ruination, though I can understand how one could get confused.
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Re: Supernatural 7 - Day 2 Dawns peacefully
« Reply #509 on: June 21, 2014, 12:28:28 am »

zombie urist: Could you please just give a summary of your updated attack on Persus, with the strongest pieces of evidence?  Nobody needs or wants to hear about how he said he wrote around 8 sentences when attacking IG and really used exactly 6 sentences.  Key points with the post-Tracker material accounted for is all I want.
I'm certain at this point that NQT is at least an SK. Especially with Jiokuy's body being gone. I will also note that NQT doesn't deny doing anything to the body.
That's all well and good, but we've almost definitely got a cult running around and you're prioritizing getting rid of serial killers over getting rid of the cult leader.  I could sort of understand this vote if you felt you had nothing else to go on, but you just posted three posts explaining, post-by-post, how Persus was scummy.

And no, don't wave this away by noting your "at least" in your above statement.  You've been insinuating that he's an SK.  You've been poking at his non-denial of handling the body.  Your case is about him being an SK, not cult.

So.  Why are you so much more scared of SKs than the almost definite cult, my friend?

Jack, for all that people don't find him suspicious, has a hard time reading the vast majority of players.
NQT: I have high standards, as they go, for even my slight reads.
Jack, do you have a better developed sense of who's scummy or not yet?
Yes.  Of particular note:
*zombie urist's focus on SK-hunting has moved him more deeply within the scum end of my reads.
*Now that flabort's had some time to play without the scumometer controlling him, he's hit a moderate scum lean, primarily for how his suspicions seem based less on evidence of scumhood than on the amount flabort thinks people would suspect him for holding said suspicions.
*I'm increasingly leaning towards Jim being town, in part due to gut, and in part due to his efforts to investigate everyone in ways that generally feel like the town him I've seen before.  Slight town lean.

Flabort, give me the names of three scummy players and the reason for their scummitude in order of scummitudinacity.
I'll need to reread day 2 so far, but at a quick glance:
Toaster: Seems passive where I expect him to be aggressive, and aggressive where none is due. High content posts that are fluffier than mine. Quite possibly Cult Leader, imo.
Jim Groovester: Arguably justified, but his levels of "upset" are overblown. It may be his character to call people "DIPSHITTARD"s, but he seems to be using that to pretend to care, rather than genuinely caring.
Flabort: Please provide evidence backing your Toaster read.  In addition, what makes you think Jim is pretending to care (provide evidence, please)?
Because my gut honestly believes toaster to be scum. If I put my vote on the current wagon it would look scummy, if I put my vote on ZU it would look scummy, if I put my vote back on Jim, it would look scummy, if I put my vote on IG, it would just look plain dumb, if I put my vote on Tirun (now Hapah), it would look like I'm lazy, etc.
My only choices were Ottofar and Toaster, and I don't feel like Ottofar is as scum as Toaster. Ottofar may be scum, but Toaster is the scum leader.

NQT seemed scummy at the time, because half the players seemed to have some sort of minor or major case on him at the time. I saw no evidence to that. I felt Jim was scummy at the time, but no one else was able or willing to find evidence to the fact, and my evidence was poor. Jiokuy, was the leading wagon at the time, so seemed scummy to others. But I again didn't see the evidence to this, and he flipped SK, not scum.

See above for why Toony is maybe scum.
So, just to be clear:
*You consider Ottofar and Toaster your only choices for voting.
*This is because of how other votes would make you look.
*After cutting out all the targets that would make you look bad, you had to choose between Ottofar and Toaster.
*You determined that Toaster is the scum leader because...um...
*...something...
*...gut.
*You want people to hunt Jim for you.
*NQT looked scummy because people thought he looked scummy.
*You think Toony might be scum because he doesn't post often, but you think his content is pro-town, and he's not on your list of possible vote targets.

...Explain.  Why so certain Toaster's the leader, especially without evidence?  Why complain about people not doing your job and hunting Jim for you?  Why make your appearance the core of deciding who to vote for?
Toaster You said yesterday that my scum hunting methodology is flawed. You probably still think so. How can you prove that yours is not? You were voting Toonyman yesterday, for "pretending to commit", or "not committing". The way I see it you have been doing more or less the same. I don't mean committing to a lynch, but committing to your stance.
Can you provide any evidence for the significant point you have here (the lack of commitment)?  Also, how is the issue of whether Toaster can prove he's the perfect scumhunter or not a relevant issue?

As a side note, please read Bring Someone Else's Role.  Massclaims are not the magical super-scumstopping tools you argue they are.

Here are your posts since I joined with game analysis/read compilation, answers, useless stuff and clarifications removed:
TheWetSheep: I love how you consider the post where NQT says he suspects you to be one of those and cut it as non-content.  Trying to imply that his suspicion of you is useless, are you?  Justify that cut.

Furthermore, do you consider NQT's habit of responding to questions with more questions to be useful?  If not, please explain.

Toaster: Do you think NQT is a necromancer or ghoul?
Logged
Quote from: Pandarsenic, BYOR 6.3 deadchat
FUCK YOU JACK
Quote from: Urist Imiknorris, Witches' Coven 2 Elfchat
YOU TRAITOROUS SWINE.
Screw you, Jack.
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