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[Frumple]

Mm... it's something to do with the transfer to... lbtcod? Or whatever it was. Pre-shift (.H4, etc.) rolls are significantly faster. Couldn't give a guess as to the why of it, though.

[Felius]

And gotta a bug to report.

Game seems to get stuck like if it was on an infinite loop, triggered apparently by trying to counter the spells of, I guess one or more of the undead around, when we move south near a group of them. Countering every spell after a while triggers said loop-like freeze.

Here's the save:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/wa0pm6n0cz9403p/Velanore%20%288%29.7z?dl=0

Edit: On a side note, not something for the current versions, but just to keep in mind for when you shift focus on starting to alter gameplay: Gaining and losing favor with the gods need a severe rework. Some gods you might as well be sweating favor with how fast and easy it is to get it (Mara comes to mind, as well Hesani, as long as you don't have him as the god you actually worship), while others give favor like a miser gives money (Asherath, why are you such a bastard?).

Furthermore, but even a more distant issue, once the game grows, there needs to be a rework in several of the gods requirements. For example, Xel can't be demanding live sacrifices in its altar everyday if a character simply can't reach the altar in time during an overworld trip. Even with Hallow, that still costs 750xp to use. Other gods have similar issues as well.

[chooseusername]

And gotta a bug to report.

Game seems to get stuck like if it was on an infinite loop, triggered apparently by trying to counter the spells of, I guess one or more of the undead around, when we move south near a group of them. Countering every spell after a while triggers said loop-like freeze.

When the games locked up and you're running under the debugger, select break option from the debugging menu.  It will suspend the game for introspection.  Then look for a window or tab called "call stack".  Look at it, select all the rows, copy and paste them.  It will give the state of the program, what lines it is at in the different functions.  The save game still helps for more dynamic recreation of the program, but the call stack gives a instant insight into where the code is, when there is a program.

[Zireael]

Mm... it's something to do with the transfer to... lbtcod? Or whatever it was. Pre-shift (.H4, etc.) rolls are significantly faster. Couldn't give a guess as to the why of it, though.

The transfer was necessary because Allegro had a number of bugs

[Felius]

And gotta a bug to report.

Game seems to get stuck like if it was on an infinite loop, triggered apparently by trying to counter the spells of, I guess one or more of the undead around, when we move south near a group of them. Countering every spell after a while triggers said loop-like freeze.

When the games locked up and you're running under the debugger, select break option from the debugging menu.  It will suspend the game for introspection.  Then look for a window or tab called "call stack".  Look at it, select all the rows, copy and paste them.  It will give the state of the program, what lines it is at in the different functions.  The save game still helps for more dynamic recreation of the program, but the call stack gives a instant insight into where the code is, when there is a program.

Here:

Code: [Select]

> Incursion.exe!NArray<long,1000,10>::operator[](long index)  Line 53 + 0x1d bytes C++
  Incursion.exe!Map::VisionThing(short pn, Creature * c, bool do_clear)  Line 358 + 0x51 bytes C++
  Incursion.exe!Player::CalcVision()  Line 261 C++
  Incursion.exe!TextTerm::ShowMap()  Line 911 C++
  Incursion.exe!Map::Update(short x, short y)  Line 751 + 0x3e bytes C++
  Incursion.exe!Map::VUpdate(short x, short y)  Line 732 C++
  Incursion.exe!Creature::StatiOn(Status s)  Line 631 C++
  Incursion.exe!Thing::GainTempStati(short n, Thing * t, short Duration, char Cause, short Val, short Mag, unsigned long eID, char clev)  Line 201 + 0x3a bytes C++
  Incursion.exe!Thing::GainPermStati(short n, Thing * t, char Cause, short Val, short Mag, unsigned long eID, char clev)  Line 232 C++
  Incursion.exe!Creature::Hide(EventInfo & e)  Line 2777 C++
  Incursion.exe!Creature::Event(EventInfo & e)  Line 847 + 0x16 bytes C++
  Incursion.exe!ThrowTo(EventInfo & e, Object * t)  Line 284 + 0xc bytes C++
  Incursion.exe!ThrowEvent(EventInfo & e)  Line 243 + 0x2b bytes C++
  Incursion.exe!RealThrow(EventInfo & e)  Line 343 + 0x9 bytes C++
  Incursion.exe!ThrowVal(short Ev, short n, Object * p1, Object * p2, Object * p3, Object * p4)  Line 476 + 0x18 bytes C++
  Incursion.exe!Monster::ChooseAction()  Line 1132 + 0x1f bytes C++
  Incursion.exe!Game::Play()  Line 292 + 0x12 bytes C++
  Incursion.exe!Game::StartMenu()  Line 2181 C++
  Incursion.exe!main(int argc, char * * argv)  Line 395 C++
  Incursion.exe!__tmainCRTStartup()  Line 278 + 0x19 bytes C
  Incursion.exe!mainCRTStartup()  Line 189 C
  kernel32.dll!76ad338a()
  [Frames below may be incorrect and/or missing, no symbols loaded for kernel32.dll]
  ntdll.dll!777c9f72()
  ntdll.dll!777c9f45()
  Incursion.exe!ResourceHasFlag(unsigned long xID, short fl)  Line 771 + 0x1b bytes C++

On a directly related note: Further in-game testing seems to indicate it's related to counter spelling, setting it to never bypass the issue, but even if it's set to ask, as long as you counter at least one, even if you answer no to every request to counter afterwards it still seems to get stuck into a loop until the game freezes.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

And on an unrelated bug report, bug that still uses the same save:

Alignment and god issues with merciless attacks and the like: It really shouldn't apply to mindless, specially mindless abominations like zombies and other mindless undead. For example, if an undead survives the turning and you proceed to kill them and/or use turn again to finish them off (possible in cases of multiple enemies), the game acts as if this is an evil and chaotic act for attacking fleeing opponents. I'm guessing it's due to how zombies and skeletones are actually templates over other creatures that might be otherwise sapient, but it does create quite some trouble for a good character, specially clerics and paladins, who would theoretically focus on cleansing the world from the walking dead.

For reproduction, on the room the character is in in the save I submitted for the counter-spell issue, just use turn undead once and it should kill most, but leave at least one zombie alive. Then using turn undead again (or two times at most, if the rolls are unlucky), should destroy it and cause the character to feel guilty and Xavias angry with the character.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Edit: Correction, the undead in question that is tending to survive the first turning is a crypt thing, not a mindless skeleton, so that's probably the issue. On the other hand, I do find troubling lore wise how so many undead are neutral and protected by chivalry while all the good gods offer the ability to downright blast them to bits by turning, with no ability to discriminate between the ones you want to turn and the ones you want to just kill.

Which also calls one thing to mind: It could be interesting if on the issue of attacking fleeing enemies for the purpose of alignment and angering most good gods (Erich aside probably) to differentiate from natural fear from magically created fear. The latter probably shouldn't eliminate them from the valid target list.


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
And since I seem to be rather talkative today, on a quick suggestion mostly related to mounted combat focused paladins: Prone enemies: Mounted charges tend to knock down your opponents, and paladins are pretty much blocked from attacking such save against rather rare exception of enemies. As such, it'd be interested to allow at least some leeway on such instead, even if just relaxing the chivalry issue exclusively on the matter of prone opponents, but maybe even keeping trip attacks as not allowed.

Edit: And for a completely different bug report: Enemies that get paralyzed but due to some characteristic don't count as "helpless" can't be targeted for normal attacks. Here's a save, just try to attack the paladin to the immediate south:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/34cm9jmkyb93ki0/Charinida.7z?dl=0

[chooseusername]

On a directly related note: Further in-game testing seems to indicate it's related to counter spelling, setting it to never bypass the issue, but even if it's set to ask, as long as you counter at least one, even if you answer no to every request to counter afterwards it still seems to get stuck into a loop until the game freezes.

Fixed

And on an unrelated bug report, bug that still uses the same save:

Alignment and god issues with merciless attacks and the like: It really shouldn't apply to mindless, specially mindless abominations like zombies and other mindless undead. For example, if an undead survives the turning and you proceed to kill them and/or use turn again to finish them off (possible in cases of multiple enemies), the game acts as if this is an evil and chaotic act for attacking fleeing opponents. I'm guessing it's due to how zombies and skeletones are actually templates over other creatures that might be otherwise sapient, but it does create quite some trouble for a good character, specially clerics and paladins, who would theoretically focus on cleansing the world from the walking dead.

For reproduction, on the room the character is in in the save I submitted for the counter-spell issue, just use turn undead once and it should kill most, but leave at least one zombie alive. Then using turn undead again (or two times at most, if the rolls are unlucky), should destroy it and cause the character to feel guilty and Xavias angry with the character.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Edit: Correction, the undead in question that is tending to survive the first turning is a crypt thing, not a mindless skeleton, so that's probably the issue. On the other hand, I do find troubling lore wise how so many undead are neutral and protected by chivalry while all the good gods offer the ability to downright blast them to bits by turning, with no ability to discriminate between the ones you want to turn and the ones you want to just kill.

Which also calls one thing to mind: It could be interesting if on the issue of attacking fleeing enemies for the purpose of alignment and angering most good gods (Erich aside probably) to differentiate from natural fear from magically created fear. The latter probably shouldn't eliminate them from the valid target list.

Well, look at it this way.  When you try and turn undead and they are destroyed, you've asked the god to do it, and they did.  When you kill an undead, you are saying you know better than the god.  Of course, that's unhelpful sophistry.

I'll try and reproduce, and see what I find.

And since I seem to be rather talkative today, on a quick suggestion mostly related to mounted combat focused paladins: Prone enemies: Mounted charges tend to knock down your opponents, and paladins are pretty much blocked from attacking such save against rather rare exception of enemies. As such, it'd be interested to allow at least some leeway on such instead, even if just relaxing the chivalry issue exclusively on the matter of prone opponents, but maybe even keeping trip attacks as not allowed.

Sounds reasonable.

Edit: And for a completely different bug report: Enemies that get paralyzed but due to some characteristic don't count as "helpless" can't be targeted for normal attacks. Here's a save, just try to attack the paladin to the immediate south:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/34cm9jmkyb93ki0/Charinida.7z?dl=0

Will take a look.

[Felius]

And for another bug report, this time one less critical, some combinations of the priest class seems to screw up the maximum ranks allowed of some skills. Example in question:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/vzt74uwd6uoo7ni/Maryam.7z?dl=0

Edit: Screen showcasing the issue:



And on an unrelated note, a "not quite a bug" to report: How many poison doses it take to poison a given stack of missiles: It scales a bit weirdly, or to be more specific, the first "bracket" is bigger than the others. While this still need further testing for the exact behavior, from what I've noticed so far it goes something like that:

1-19: 1 dose.
20-29: 2 doses.
30-39(?): 3 doses.

It creates a rather "gamey" and laborious behavior when poisoning missile stacks to make the most economical use of your poison, with a little bit of variability created by the skill rolls.

And on a related note about game balance: Poison on melee or returning thrown weapons is far less economical than poison on ammo. With ammo stacks, the projectiles have each the same number of uses (approximately if you set them to stack) that you'd give a melee weapon with the same poison and skill roll to apply it, giving each dose of poison 10 to 19 times more "uses", so to speak, as long as the stack have at least 10 projectiles in it.

[chooseusername]

And on an unrelated bug report, bug that still uses the same save:

Alignment and god issues with merciless attacks and the like: It really shouldn't apply to mindless, specially mindless abominations like zombies and other mindless undead. For example, if an undead survives the turning and you proceed to kill them and/or use turn again to finish them off (possible in cases of multiple enemies), the game acts as if this is an evil and chaotic act for attacking fleeing opponents. I'm guessing it's due to how zombies and skeletones are actually templates over other creatures that might be otherwise sapient, but it does create quite some trouble for a good character, specially clerics and paladins, who would theoretically focus on cleansing the world from the walking dead.

For reproduction, on the room the character is in in the save I submitted for the counter-spell issue, just use turn undead once and it should kill most, but leave at least one zombie alive. Then using turn undead again (or two times at most, if the rolls are unlucky), should destroy it and cause the character to feel guilty and Xavias angry with the character.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Edit: Correction, the undead in question that is tending to survive the first turning is a crypt thing, not a mindless skeleton, so that's probably the issue. On the other hand, I do find troubling lore wise how so many undead are neutral and protected by chivalry while all the good gods offer the ability to downright blast them to bits by turning, with no ability to discriminate between the ones you want to turn and the ones you want to just kill.

Which also calls one thing to mind: It could be interesting if on the issue of attacking fleeing enemies for the purpose of alignment and angering most good gods (Erich aside probably) to differentiate from natural fear from magically created fear. The latter probably shouldn't eliminate them from the valid target list.

Bug report.

If you turn undead, they may become panicked, they may get damaged or get destroyed. If you turn undead who have become panicked, then it is the same as attacking a fleeing sapient. Logic dictates that killing an undead you have turned and made panicky, should be okay.
Add to the mix that when you turn undead, it does a poll of whats around and assays if the action may be alignment changing, and asks the player if they are sure. The checks used in this poll differ from those used in the damage logic.

[chooseusername]

And for another bug report, this time one less critical, some combinations of the priest class seems to screw up the maximum ranks allowed of some skills. Example in question:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/vzt74uwd6uoo7ni/Maryam.7z?dl=0

Edit: Screen showcasing the issue:

Can you tell me exactly what should be different, as you see it?

And on an unrelated note, a "not quite a bug" to report: How many poison doses it take to poison a given stack of missiles: It scales a bit weirdly, or to be more specific, the first "bracket" is bigger than the others. While this still need further testing for the exact behavior, from what I've noticed so far it goes something like that:

1-19: 1 dose.
20-29: 2 doses.
30-39(?): 3 doses.

It creates a rather "gamey" and laborious behavior when poisoning missile stacks to make the most economical use of your poison, with a little bit of variability created by the skill rolls.

Fixed.

And on a related note about game balance: Poison on melee or returning thrown weapons is far less economical than poison on ammo. With ammo stacks, the projectiles have each the same number of uses (approximately if you set them to stack) that you'd give a melee weapon with the same poison and skill roll to apply it, giving each dose of poison 10 to 19 times more "uses", so to speak, as long as the stack have at least 10 projectiles in it.

Well, the way I see it, with projectiles you'd dip them 10 at a time as a bunch - the tips.  It would be awkward to do the same with melee weapons.  Not too concerned about this.

[Felius]

Can you tell me exactly what should be different, as you see it?

Craft 4, Decipher Script 3. Mind you, that's during the character creation, that is, a level 1 character, not during a level up.

Well, the way I see it, with projectiles you'd dip them 10 at a time as a bunch - the tips.  It would be awkward to do the same with melee weapons.  Not too concerned about this.

It's not a crippling problem, specially if you don't mind using different poisons for your weapons, given how many vials you find when killing Kobolds and the like, but nonetheless, at least if you are trying use some specific poison it does get expensive. Not to mention that with the current usage, your blade will run out of poison far before you actually go for the second enemy.

From an in-game logic, while dipping or the like would be easier with multiple projectiles indeed, the amount of poison in each "dose" is about the same anyway. Again, it's not a crippling issue in any way, but it's a bit annoying for characters trying to have a greater focus on poison usage.

[chooseusername]

Craft 4, Decipher Script 3. Mind you, that's during the character creation, that is, a level 1 character, not during a level up.

Read the domain focus feat.  It explains both cases.

[chooseusername]

Edit: And for a completely different bug report: Enemies that get paralyzed but due to some characteristic don't count as "helpless" can't be targeted for normal attacks. Here's a save, just try to attack the paladin to the immediate south:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/34cm9jmkyb93ki0/Charinida.7z?dl=0

This is because of the following code:

Code: [Select]

            (e.EVictim->HasStati(PARALYSIS,PARA_HELD) && !(max(SkillLevel(SK_CONCENT),SkillLevel(SK_ESCAPE_ART)) >= 15)) ||
The type of paralysis is correct, but the level of the actor's concentration skill is 2 and the level of the actor's escape artist skill is 15.  So the ability to coup de gras fails.

This is actually buggy.  What it should be is a match to the ability of the victim to break the paralysis, which would be the skill levels checked on the victim.

Fixed.

[chooseusername]

After creating a number of characters there's one thing I've been wondering: Why does the random stat rolling take so long? A handful of random numbers, even with a bunch of attached conditions shouldn't take that long if my understanding is correct.

Not sure.  Best I can figure Allegro wasn't incorporating all of the roll animation delays that were asked for, so when libtcod came in, what was asked for was given and it was as slow as it was meant to be.  I've hard coded the animation duration for each attribute to 0.5 seconds, let me know if you think it should be longer.

Fixed

[Felius]

Edit: And for a completely different bug report: Enemies that get paralyzed but due to some characteristic don't count as "helpless" can't be targeted for normal attacks. Here's a save, just try to attack the paladin to the immediate south:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/34cm9jmkyb93ki0/Charinida.7z?dl=0

This is because of the following code:

Code: [Select]

            (e.EVictim->HasStati(PARALYSIS,PARA_HELD) && !(max(SkillLevel(SK_CONCENT),SkillLevel(SK_ESCAPE_ART)) >= 15)) ||
The type of paralysis is correct, but the level of the actor's concentration skill is 2 and the level of the actor's escape artist skill is 15.  So the ability to coup de gras fails.

This is actually buggy.  What it should be is a match to the ability of the victim to break the paralysis, which would be the skill levels checked on the victim.

Fixed.

Nice! But part of the problem was also that they couldn't also be normally attacked either, or at least it seemed so.

[Felius]

Craft 4, Decipher Script 3. Mind you, that's during the character creation, that is, a level 1 character, not during a level up.

Read the domain focus feat.  It explains both cases.

But didn't have said feat either. Still, checked the description both of the feat and of the domains, don't see why I would be able to put twice as much skill points in craft and nearly so in decipher script. Here's the descriptions:





------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Edit:
And on something I'm pretty sure is a bug but I'm not absolutely 100% sure:
On the attached save, the character seems to have gotten a permanent -2 conditional modifier to a number of statistics, including all saves and the attack ability, but I can't find a reason for it to have so. I've dropped everything but the weapon I'm wielding, tried to cancel everything that could be cancelled, I've used wizard mode to get a potion of remove curse, checked all possible conditions I have, tried to see if it was something related to the area I was in, among a couple minor others.

Here's the save:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ebgf8gypb9t2s5w/Jhaelryna.7z?dl=0