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Author Topic: Incursion (open source) play & development  (Read 80299 times)

Frumple

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Re: Incursion (open source) play & development
« Reply #45 on: July 14, 2014, 02:39:09 am »

... yes, yes, you would. It actually changes when you move the object between levels?

That's... actually kinda' amusing. Makes me realize I've never actually tried to move a chest between levels. That actually let me win a game, once -- character got deep, died, got reincarnated and clawed its way back to victory by swinging by chests I couldn't open early in the game and left alone to bootstrap itself back to where it died. Was pretty neat, ha.
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CWheezy

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Re: Incursion (open source) play & development
« Reply #46 on: July 14, 2014, 02:47:11 am »

Oh I thought that was a feature lol, I noticed it right away.

You don't say what feats to take. Power attack, then what?

Oh, right now my number 1 fix is reach weapons being able to hit large sized creatures, it always says I can't hit adjacent things, and when I step one square away they are out of range

Next is stairs spawning in a dangerous area, like a chasm so you go down some stairs and fall 6 floors, great.

Also, stairs spawning completely surrounded by walls, that seems wrong

« Last Edit: July 14, 2014, 03:02:38 am by CWheezy »
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Frumple

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Re: Incursion (open source) play & development
« Reply #47 on: July 14, 2014, 06:32:56 am »

I'd forgotten about the multi-tile thing... you should still be able to attack is you manually use the attack command (pull up the combat menu -- you really want that hotkeyed if you're using a reach weapon, anyway) and then... 'l'ocation? I think. Lowercase L, in any case. Free move the targeting cursor on top of one of the tiles. It should take a swing for you at that point, and hit, if my memory of the process is still good.

Feats for monks? M'not actually sure I'd take power attack as a starting feat t'be honest. One of the ones I won with a ways back didn't take power attack at all (note: This was an older version -- I'm not sure if chi strike is still bugged or not.). Also you totally wouldn't want to go multitude anymore.* Power attack's probably not the most useful of talents for a monk unless you're intending to pick up the kick feats, at least if you're going unarmed -- you're not going to have the highest BAB (and thus tohit) score in the world, which means you won't be getting all that much out of it.

PA's good enough if you're going strength monk (and possibly grapple), though, instead of dex (which goes weapon finesse, instead). Big deal about going finesse is dex is going to be helping out your (desperately needed) DC, which is nice, and it synergizes with lightning fist (and you'll kinda' badly need the increased attack speed if you're eventually going unarmed -- this is less true if you're going with weapons or grappling primary, of course).

Lightning fists and fists of iron are nice starting ones (though in retrospect somewhat contradictory to my earlier "don't punch things for a bit" statement. Hrm.), sneaky's good if you're intending to stealth (obviously), expertise is apparently sexy according to me from years back. Dodge is naturally useful, as is run (though run is possibly somewhat superfluous in the face of your class based movement bonuses. Still, faster is better.). Of course, the fist stuff is meaningless if you're going weapon-monk, who probably wants cleave and will take that power attack.

Really, the question is what you're trying to do. Feat choice is going to change based on if you're going unarmed, unarmed with a grapple focus, armed, or... something else. Dodge and expertise are probably the only two starting feats I'd say are unilaterally useful on a monk. Maybe run. Later stuff is later stuff -- fist monk picks up special punchy stuff, grapple monk picks up grapple stuff, weapon monk picks up normal face-beaty feats ala barbarian, etc.

*No one wants to primary worship the multitude -- lay worship, sure (s'really random, but there's always that chance of /detect monsters/ or whatever and the minions can be useful.), but that "healing potions piss them off" thing makes 'em pretty much unplayable as a primary god. Only characters that might even remotely want to try would be someone with access to minor and/or major drain (they don't actually want to do that, no, but they're less crippled by it).

--

As for stairs spawning in dangerous places, other than making the stair tile itself safe, if that's possible, I really hope that feature sticks around. It's incredibly atmospheric to occasionally have a staircase that ends hanging over a chasm, or on top of lava, or in the middle of a river or whatever. Does suck to go down and immediately drop/fry/drown, but it's a beautiful mental image.

And yeah, the stair-surrounded thing is a glitch in the map generator -- you're notice you can actually see through one of the surrounding walls. Been meaning to drop off a save showcasing that behavior, but have been distracted and whatnot.
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CWheezy

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Re: Incursion (open source) play & development
« Reply #48 on: July 14, 2014, 07:00:59 am »

I actually think the multitude is insanely overpowered, I pretty much always worship them on my cleric. I just sleep if I need to rest, or sometimes I roll the pain domain and lol look out george. Getting a huge amount of powerful minions is pretty good. The first vault I tried to beat was mostly solo'd by a baubau who had picked up a brilliant energy longsword
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Frumple

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Re: Incursion (open source) play & development
« Reply #49 on: July 14, 2014, 08:24:11 am »

The big rub with multitude right now is there's pretty much zero benefit to worshipping them as a primary god. Pretty much the only thing that gets you is an anger flag on the most prolific healing method in the game and maybe a bit higher chance of being rezzed, so far as I'm aware. Lay worshippers get both the big payoff (the spells) and the minion spam just as well, and can still chug healing pots and never sleep (and thus wrack up the ambush chances. No need to taunt the RNG, heh.).

Better is to go with one of the other evil gods (besides zurvash) and just lay worship multitude for extra stuff, imo.
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Thydron

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Re: Incursion (open source) play & development
« Reply #50 on: July 14, 2014, 08:51:50 am »

The big rub with multitude right now is there's pretty much zero benefit to worshipping them as a primary god.

I think that's a bit of a side-effect of lay-worshipers being able to get above favour level 3 with gods at the moment; I'm fairly certain that's meant to be the limit (found something in the manual supporting this: "There are ten levels of favor possible with each god; characters can only be raised above the third level of favor with the god they have specifically devoted themselves to." - see http://www.incursion-roguelike.org/man/Advent.html#PA ), but getting that working properly would make dedicating yourself to the multitude more of an option (especially as the spell levels of whatever they give you increases with the favour level)
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CWheezy

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Re: Incursion (open source) play & development
« Reply #51 on: July 14, 2014, 02:16:07 pm »

So uh, what is the actual win condition? Is there a win screen or anything?

I killed the king and the two mind flayer mages, and I am sitting on the throne. Maybe I have to destroy it?
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chooseusername

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Re: Incursion (open source) play & development
« Reply #52 on: July 14, 2014, 03:32:36 pm »

Next is stairs spawning in a dangerous area, like a chasm so you go down some stairs and fall 6 floors, great.

Also, stairs spawning completely surrounded by walls, that seems wrong
Already reported.  This is a legacy bug, and while I have a save file kindly provided by Vasiliy Kardanov, it does not help in debugging the issue.  The problem is that I need to debug a level actually in the process of being generated, but to have a save file where someone has encountered it, the level will have to already have been generated.  Map levels are generated on demand, and not in a deterministic way.

This has to wait until I find the time to understand the whole map generation process.  If it looks like a longer term thing, I'll add in some warning if the stairs lead down to a dangerous tile.
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If you are providing a save file to reproduce an Incursion bug, please compress it and attach it to an issue on the bitbucket site.  I recommend 7zip for compression.

chooseusername

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Re: Incursion (open source) play & development
« Reply #53 on: July 14, 2014, 03:36:35 pm »

Oh, right now my number 1 fix is reach weapons being able to hit large sized creatures, it always says I can't hit adjacent things, and when I step one square away they are out of range
If you want something fixed first, you need to make it as easy as possible for me to fix it.  Get in the situation.  Save the game.  Compress the save file.  Go to the issues site (listed in my signature), look for an issue which covers this.  Create one, if you cannot see one.  List the commands I should do to see the problem, and describe how they should work.  Attach the compressed save file.

If someone does this right, then I can just download it, reproduce it under the debugger, and fix it in maybe minutes.  If someone doesn't do it, then it could require hours for me to try and follow vague descriptions of problems and still not be able to see it.
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If you are providing a save file to reproduce an Incursion bug, please compress it and attach it to an issue on the bitbucket site.  I recommend 7zip for compression.

Frumple

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Re: Incursion (open source) play & development
« Reply #54 on: July 14, 2014, 03:39:43 pm »

So uh, what is the actual win condition? Is there a win screen or anything?

I killed the king and the two mind flayer mages, and I am sitting on the throne. Maybe I have to destroy it?
Now you have to get back out of the dungeon.
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chooseusername

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Re: Incursion (open source) play & development
« Reply #55 on: July 14, 2014, 03:42:00 pm »

So uh, what is the actual win condition? Is there a win screen or anything?

I killed the king and the two mind flayer mages, and I am sitting on the throne. Maybe I have to destroy it?
Go to the in-game help, and read the introduction.  It's the first thing covered there.  From the main menu 'h' followed by '1'.
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CWheezy

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Re: Incursion (open source) play & development
« Reply #56 on: July 14, 2014, 09:09:58 pm »

Thanks!

Here is my glorious victory! All hail the multitude:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7131649/Incursion/Krang.html

My equipment is weird because it was pretty much all destroyed by rusting runes in the final boss area. Also, with the insanely powerful spells, and the many, many allies I had, everything was basically trivial
« Last Edit: July 14, 2014, 09:11:40 pm by CWheezy »
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Micro102

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Re: Incursion (open source) play & development
« Reply #57 on: July 15, 2014, 12:36:47 am »

Wiki upgrade would make this game a lot more popular. I stopped playing because most of the things I looked up weren't there.
Like?  If you were to list the things you expected to find there, then maybe the gaps could be filled.

Details on what every ability and item does. There are so many that in order to actually know what is worth getting and what they do.
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Frumple

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Re: Incursion (open source) play & development
« Reply #58 on: July 15, 2014, 01:00:06 am »

... transcribe and hotlink-enable the manual, basically. Could maybe stand some usability work, I guess. The manual is... well, it's pretty transparent and thorough. Almost everything is pretty much explicitly laid out for the player's perusal. All the feats, almost every ability (I think a handful of the psionic ones aren't, but the magic menu explanations are straightforward FAKE-EDIT: No, they're all in the alchemy section.), just... just about everything.

I guess maybe enchantment stuff could stand to have a list somewhere, but the only place that a choice really comes up in regards to that is crafting magic weapons, and again there's a menu with everything laid out in pretty much plain english.

Any ideas beyond that?
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chooseusername

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Re: Incursion (open source) play & development
« Reply #59 on: July 15, 2014, 01:08:09 am »

... transcribe and hotlink-enable the manual, basically. Could maybe stand some usability work, I guess.
There was some talk about being able to generate the in-game manual into an HTML output.  The code to do it, may be there.  Or it may be that Julian was planning to also release that in his next batch of files.

You can hotlink browse the in-game manual, or at least will be able to better do so, once some bugs are fixed in the next release.
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