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[Micro102]

No the manual does not contain what I am talking about. I loaded the game up again to figure out exactly how I want, and int he process, I found this page.

http://incursion.wikidot.com/manual-index

See all those grey links under "Reference Lists"? All of that is very valuable information that I would love to have access to. I make a new character and all I see is a list of feats, talents, abilities, and items in which I have no idea what they do. I made a random character and in order to understand everything he could do, I spent at least 10 minutes looking through the help menus and wiki, just to figure out what my guy could currently do. This is a huge turn off.

And how would one figure out what extra abilities do? I had to search the wiki for a description of "strong soul +2", and could not locate it on the help menus. Heck, maybe all that is needed is a search engine on the in-game help menus.

[Thydron]

No the manual does not contain what I am talking about. I loaded the game up again to figure out exactly how I want, and int he process, I found this page.

http://incursion.wikidot.com/manual-index

See all those grey links under "Reference Lists"? All of that is very valuable information that I would love to have access to.

Try: http://www.incursion-roguelike.org/man/Manual.html - not sure why it hasn't been copied over to the wiki in full (might do the final parts this evening), but it's a full version of the help with the missing sections (I think that's just an online version of the internal help file - all those details should be in the in-game help menu as well I think)

For reference, Strong Soul is the halfling special ability; helps prevent ability damage.

[chooseusername]

See all those grey links under "Reference Lists"? All of that is very valuable information that I would love to have access to. I make a new character and all I see is a list of feats, talents, abilities, and items in which I have no idea what they do. I made a random character and in order to understand everything he could do, I spent at least 10 minutes looking through the help menus and wiki, just to figure out what my guy could currently do. This is a huge turn off.

And how would one figure out what extra abilities do? I had to search the wiki for a description of "strong soul +2", and could not locate it on the help menus. Heck, maybe all that is needed is a search engine on the in-game help menus.

All this should be accessible directly in the character creation process.  I have no idea what half the stuff does, and wish for the same information.  But I don't want to have to go away and find the information, when I should be able to see the information in situ.

[chooseusername]

This issue suggests reversing the order of journal entries.  Any objections?  Speak up or get some change you prefer not to happen.

[Frumple]

This issue suggests reversing the order of journal entries.  Any objections?  Speak up or get some change you prefer not to happen.

Sounds like a good idea to me, actually.

And how would one figure out what extra abilities do? I had to search the wiki for a description of "strong soul +2", and could not locate it on the help menus. Heck, maybe all that is needed is a search engine on the in-game help menus.

Strong soul is explicitly described in the halfling racial description

* Strong Soul -- Halflings may seek to avoid discomfort whenever possible, but the truth is that they also survive through ordeals that would break the spirit of your typical human. They love life with a passion, and refuse to let go of that spark in the face of things which threaten their spirit, debilitate their mind or weaken their body.
   In game terms, halflings have a kind of innate hardness rating against ability score damage. This value begins at 1 and increases by +1 every third level thereafter (2 at 4th, 3 at 7th, etc.) This value is subtracted from any damage the halfling might suffer to one of his abilities, and if it exceeds the damage, no harm is done. They also recieve a +2 bonus to save versus fear, and a +4 bonus versus death effects.

... when I say the strong, strong majority of the information you're talking about is in the manual, m'not just talking out m'arse. It really is in there -- some scattered a bit, but in there. And pretty much the rest of it is described via the information e'x'amine provides -- Incursion really is incredibly transparent about its mechanics. Could use a bit o'usability tweaks for some things, though, sure.

In-game search feature for the manual would be pretty awesome, as you say. More handy than pointing google at the website, anyway. Probably room for something on the character screen, kinda' like the feats menu-whatsit, that explicitly details the special abilities, too. Likely a few other things -- a consolidated, searchable page for spell abilities would be verra' nice.

For the special abilities, I'll go ahead and make the offer: If someone codes up the framework for it in the future, an'gives me a list (of all the ability names) and a formatting template, I'd be willing to do the scutwork of inputting all the descriptions if it has to be done manually. Can't code worth a damn, but data entry I can do.

[Mephansteras]

PTW new thread.

[Micro102]

Yes I know that strong soul is described in the halfling description. I figured that out on the wiki. The problem is, it seems that if it was not on the wiki, the way I would have to know what it is, is to memorize all the descriptions of the individual races. If there was a separate place where I could just use a search feature to find what I am looking for, it would make learning the game much more comfortable.

[chooseusername]

Here's how the stat bonus calculation currently works:  For a given stat, let's say intelligence, you may have any number of bonus values in play.  However, none of these are used directly, rather a final stat bonus calculated using all of the bonuses in play in aggregate, is what is used.

The problem is that the aggregation algorithm is both buggy and makes little sense.  Let's say at the start of the aggregation algorithm, the initial aggregate bonus value is 0. 

For each in play bonus, the following occurs.  If the current aggregate bonus value is less than 0, then the current in play bonus is added to it.  Otherwise the current aggregate bonus value is the maximum of itself, and the current in play bonus.  The process is repeated until there are no more in play bonuses for the given stat.  After this point, the final aggregate bonus value is what is used.

So, let's say you have 50 bonuses of -8 and 1 bonus of 4.  If a -8 is first, then the stat value will be -396.  If a 4 is first, then the stat value is 4.

Staying more sane, let's say you have a two -3 bonuses.  The result will be -6.  And similarly, let's say you have two 3 bonuses.  The result will be 3.

Should stat bonuses stack (as the negative stat bonuses imply)?  Or should the best stack bonus be chosen and used in place of any of the others (as the positive stat bonuses imply)?

[Thydron]

This issue suggests reversing the order of journal entries.  Any objections?  Speak up or get some change you prefer not to happen.

Seems sensible.

If we're (sort of) talking about ease-of-use changes, I'd be interested to know what default options people tend to use - I always turn on the inventory cursor, and I know that for new players the inventory system can be tricky to get to grips with, so might be worth considering turning that on by default? The "highlight sleeping/afflicted/etc." creature options also seem to me to be pretty useful without any obvious downsides

Should stat bonuses stack (as the negative stat bonuses imply)?  Or should the best stack bonus be chosen and used in place of any of the others (as the positive stat bonuses imply)?

Is there a way to split the bonuses into positive and negative, then sum all the negatives, and add that to the maximum positive?

I think the treatment for positive and negatives is supposed to be different, and that what it's trying to do is stopping you getting e.g. a +6 intelligence bonus from a +3 ring and a +3 helm together, limiting the bonus to just +3, but still taking into account the total negative e.g. -6 intelligence with -2 from a disease and -4 from confusion.

At least I think that's the intended logic from looking at how the positive and negative bonuses are treated separately

[Zireael]

Positive stat bonuses: does Incursion have the concept of different bonus types? Like, the inherent bonus, the circumstance bonus etc.? http://www.d20srd.org/srd/theBasics.htm#stacking

If it has, enforce it. If it doesn't, well, stacking everything would be OP.

Negative stat bonuses: if it has the above, consider them circumstance bonuses mostly. and above all, don't let self-same bonuses stack (2x confusion shouldn't give -8 int, but -6 int from disease and confusion sounds fine)

[ejseto]

Positive stat bonuses: does Incursion have the concept of different bonus types? Like, the inherent bonus, the circumstance bonus etc.?

It does. It tells you on your character sheet exactly what types and quantities of bonuses you're getting to pretty much every statistic as well.

Should stat bonuses stack (as the negative stat bonuses imply)?  Or should the best stack bonus be chosen and used in place of any of the others (as the positive stat bonuses imply)?

Negative bonuses from different sources (even of the same type) should stack. Only positive bonuses of different types should stack. This creates non-linearity in the value of item bonuses so that a +5 is worth more than 5x that of a +1, which I believe is intentional. But that's not necessary for cursed items since foolishness should be punished to the full extent of the law.

[Frumple]

Negative bonuses from different sources (even of the same type) should stack. Only positive bonuses of different types should stack.

This... mostly. It should take the best of each type (so, no stacking) except with explicit ability damage (ala poisons and diseases, and things like bonebat attacks or that one green thing that damages your dex when you attack it, stuff like that). So you wouldn't have curses or cursed equipment penalties stacking on top of each other, but poisons and diseases would do their thing properly.

Basically the difference between stat drain and stat damage, I suppose. A drain, as with curses and confusion and whatnot, shouldn't stack with itself (different types, of course, should stack pretty much always), while damage, as with poisons and certain creature abilities (again, bonebat bite) should.

[chooseusername]

It sounds like what I am going to have to do is write up how all the attribute adjustments work.  From stats to whatever else.

Note that if you have 30 retribution anger penalties from Essiah of -6 stat adjustment, that's -180.  However, the bonus range is -128 to 127, so what it actually means is that actually means a stat bonus of ~+75 or thereabouts.  That's some old school video wrap around the counter cheat mode shit right there.

[CWheezy]

Why can this character not worship Xavias?

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7131649/Incursion/Quevven.sav

[kuniqs]

I haven't read the whole topic but:
1) Barkskin spell gives much more armor than it reads in the description
2) Should Mage Armor & Barkskin stack? Because druid/mages can pull some insane armor ratings with the Empower spell metamagic (empower spell should also be made more costly since it can significantly boost buffing spells)