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[Retropunch]

Historically a matter of great penance and performing a suicidally dangerous act in service of the church...  How to implement that ingame, I'unno...  Probably something god-related.

Potentially add in some kind of special transgression event where it spawns a deadly enemy, relevant to the particular paladin's god, somewhere in the level and you need to hunt it down and slaughter it?  Also probably some form of penance/sacrifice.  First thing that comes to mind in that sense would be losing money, but...  Money isn't that big a deal in Inc, really.  And losing your magical items would potentially be a game-ender in and of itself.

I'd suggest permanent stat/health loss. It's big enough to be a problem but not so big that it's a game ender. 'Dangerous monsters' can be a bit variable depending on gear, and money isn't much of a big deal.

How about a mix of lots of losses. Lose a few stat points, permanent health loss, money and some consumables? It's a sacrifice the player can understand and

[chooseusername]

I'd suggest permanent stat/health loss. It's big enough to be a problem but not so big that it's a game ender. 'Dangerous monsters' can be a bit variable depending on gear, and money isn't much of a big deal.

How about a mix of lots of losses. Lose a few stat points, permanent health loss, money and some consumables? It's a sacrifice the player can understand and

Okay, which stats?  How many points?  How much health, money?  Which consumables?  Is there a base amount and does it scale with character level?  If there's some consensus on the exact details, I'll implement it (unless someone else volunteers to do it) and it'll be in the next version.

[Zireael]

Hmm, we're talking paladins.

For sacrifice: potions of health/cure whatevers, food items (the most nutritious ones first), antidotes etc, potions of restore mana. Let's demand something you're likely to need regardless of level.


After sacrifice, as penance: I suggest dropping their Wisdom below 11 (essentially taking away their ability to cast spells). In addition to this, we might drop Str and/or Con, let's say 2 points.

[chooseusername]

There are concerns that the random number generator is low quality:

  https://bitbucket.org/rmtew/incursion-roguelike/issue/238/dice-generator-issues

Anyone else noticed anything like this?

[esran]

There are concerns that the random number generator is low quality:

  https://bitbucket.org/rmtew/incursion-roguelike/issue/238/dice-generator-issues

Anyone else noticed anything like this?

For what its worth I play this game a lot and haven't noticed any problems.

[Retropunch]

Hmm, we're talking paladins.

For sacrifice: potions of health/cure whatevers, food items (the most nutritious ones first), antidotes etc, potions of restore mana. Let's demand something you're likely to need regardless of level.


After sacrifice, as penance: I suggest dropping their Wisdom below 11 (essentially taking away their ability to cast spells). In addition to this, we might drop Str and/or Con, let's say 2 points.

This all sounds about right to me.I think a bit of randomness needs to be added in as otherwise it'd become a bit too formulaic (as in, the risk would be too obvious and you'd be able to make a very precise cost/benefit analysis). A mixture of long term and short term punishments really hit home, but probably don't leave you completely incapacitated.

I'd suggest a big purge of good potions (maybe just a random selection if there is a 'good potion' label or similar) and definitely a big purge of food. I completely agree with dropping wisdom to below 11, but I'd maybe take either Str or Con and drop it 2-4 points.

I'd then add a random status effect (shakes, filth fever, blinding sickness, Bane or Red Ache) for a short term punishment. This might obviously stack with Str or Con which would be devastating, but would be a fair risk.
.

[Xgamer4]

I'd suggest a big purge of good potions (maybe just a random selection if there is a 'good potion' label or similar) and definitely a big purge of food.

Are you talking about purging from the inventory, or from the level? Because while I don't play Incursion (I just follow along because I think it's cool), the idea of severely cutting the spawn rate of good potions and/or equipment is a really interesting idea that'd also blend in really nicely with ticking off a god.

How that'd play out in practice I don't know, though...

[Retropunch]

I'd suggest a big purge of good potions (maybe just a random selection if there is a 'good potion' label or similar) and definitely a big purge of food.

Are you talking about purging from the inventory, or from the level? Because while I don't play Incursion (I just follow along because I think it's cool), the idea of severely cutting the spawn rate of good potions and/or equipment is a really interesting idea that'd also blend in really nicely with ticking off a god.

How that'd play out in practice I don't know, though...

I had thought about taking it just about purging stuff from the inventory, but cutting down the spawn/taking them from the level would be very interesting!!

[chooseusername]

My concern is that a lot of these penalties are vindictive and petty, and not really practical, from the god's point of view.  Let's say that you've got a follower and you want to welcome them back into the fold.  Do you hobble them?  Do you make a whole lot of petty penalties to make their life harder?  Or do you take them as they are, but make them work for it?

So, no penalties.  Rather just give them paladin status back.  But they're on a trial contract, they need to meet their contractual goals in order to go onto the proper employee contract.  This might be not engaging in any aggression against non-evil creatures for a certain period of game time.  It might be throwing some item into magma within some certain period of game time.  And the logic won't check that the action can be done by generating levels ahead and scanning the contents, rather it'd just give them a generous set deadline and

Of course that's not supported by the current game engine, as such.  In the short term it might be easier to just keep it loose and simple.  They have to have a minimum of favour from the god, and if they have it, just give them paladin status back.  Sure thing buddy.  If they want to go on short term leave, they need to be on good terms with the employer, to get their job back..

[Retropunch]

My concern is that a lot of these penalties are vindictive and petty, and not really practical, from the god's point of view.  Let's say that you've got a follower and you want to welcome them back into the fold.  Do you hobble them?  Do you make a whole lot of petty penalties to make their life harder?  Or do you take them as they are, but make them work for it?

So, no penalties.  Rather just give them paladin status back.  But they're on a trial contract, they need to meet their contractual goals in order to go onto the proper employee contract.  This might be not engaging in any aggression against non-evil creatures for a certain period of game time.  It might be throwing some item into magma within some certain period of game time.  And the logic won't check that the action can be done by generating levels ahead and scanning the contents, rather it'd just give them a generous set deadline and

Of course that's not supported by the current game engine, as such.  In the short term it might be easier to just keep it loose and simple.  They have to have a minimum of favour from the god, and if they have it, just give them paladin status back.  Sure thing buddy.  If they want to go on short term leave, they need to be on good terms with the employer, to get their job back..

I understand where you're coming from but gods ARE petty and vindictive!! To me, the sort of 'don't worry you can just come back whenever as long as you're good' just sounds too wishy-washy - Paladins are all about fire and brimstone, and proving themselves righteous, whereas this just sounds like they're a bunch of wandering Methodists ( :p ). Sacrifice is a major theme for Paladins, and it seems right that they should have to make some sacrifice to join back in.

I do like the idea of a 'quest' that they need to fulfil to join back though - that sounds like a pretty good middle way. Maybe killing a number of undead or aberrations or something might be all that's needed for now, although it would be good if something could spawn that needs to be killed.
   

[Novel Scoops]

But all in all very well worth playing , the unique atmosphere and the indepth D&D feeling of the game system is still very solid

What's unique? I'm struggling to see the games killer feature.

[Majestic7]

Really, the penance for a fallen paladin should depend completely on the god. I'd see Erich demanding something vindictive and petty, while some other god would be more willing to go softly. The fire dude, for example, could demand the paladin to burn all his scrolls and never read anything anymore during the whole game. This would be a bad and damaging effect, but not as hurtful as gimping stats. Likewise, the reformed paladin should be able to read scrolls anyway, that would just immediately destroy his paladin status forever *and* get some holy smiting.

[Robsoie]

What's unique? I'm struggling to see the games killer feature.

Really struggling to see what's in Incursion and is not in other roguelikes ?

How many roguelike are using the D&D/d20 ruleset (with some adaption though relating to the spell system) ?
How many roguelike describe for you the surrounding when you move in it as if you were playing a classic "paper" D&D as the dungeon master would do ?

[Novel Scoops]

Ah. Does it have d&d esque story modules? Thanks for answering.

[Robsoie]

For now there's only the halls of the goblin king module, that as it was mentionned in that thread is more of a large demonstration of the engine ability and potential than being the complete game it can potentially be.

I remember reading that the original developer wanted to make more modules, but he abadonned the game development at some point.

Then after chooseusername took over and resumed development and bug fixing, with his goal being to complete that module and stabilize the game

But there's some hope that one day in the future more modules may get in
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=139289.msg5978729;topicseen#msg5978729

Remembering
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forgotten_Realms:_Unlimited_Adventures
I'm still dreaming of a module editor with the Incursion game engine, but that's just a dream as even without having coding ability i can imagine this would be a huge work and would require certainly more coders to help chooseusername .