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[Tack]

So does that mean there's a daemonic chain of command? Sorceror is above daemon but below greater? Where do princes fit in the condescension hierarchy?

[Grim Portent]

So does that mean there's a daemonic chain of command? Sorceror is above daemon but below greater? Where do princes fit in the condescension hierarchy?

The daemon ranks go something like this from lowest to highest:


Unaligned creatures like Furies and lesser warp entities
Daemon beasts such as Seekers and Beasts of Nurgle
Lesser Daemons like Bloodletters
Heralds
Greater Daemons
Gods

Soul Grinders and Princes are somewhat off to the side of the hierarchy, not really fitting in properly.

Soul Grinders are viewed with differing opinions depending on which type of daemon does the viewing. Khorne daemons view Grinders with contempt for being beaten in combat and choosing to take the easy way back to war which leaves them slaves to someone other than Khorne.

Princes are something of a case by case thing, generally viewed as less than most daemons because they were once mortal but also sometimes bearing power and rank above most greater daemons. In general the average one seems to rank alongside Heralds, but some rank higher or lower, like Doombreed and Angron.



Khorne has a structure to his forces, with 8 bloodthirsters being commanded by him, who each command eight more bloodthirsters in turn and so on down through 8 ranks, the lowest rank of which commands the Heralds and Princes who command the war engines and lesser daemons.

It is unclear if the others have their own form of Khorne's daemonic legions or not, though Nurgle at the least likely has some form of hierarchy given how organised Plaguebearers are.

[TempAcc]

I always had the impression that only greater daemons are actualy fully self aware, while lesser ones are only partly so because they're constrained by their particular god's portfolio. Hence stuff like daemonettes, bloodletters and nurglings are just piles of emotion with a minimun of inteligence required for coordination and etc. Chaos Spawns and other chaos beasts are mindless, driven only by a single emotion or instinct, while greater daemons are fully self aware and are only not constrained by their god's portfolio because they embody that one portfolio, which is partly the reason as to why they even became greater daemons, with Daemon Princes being greater daemons +1, since they often show greater power then pretty much any know greater daemon. I mean, each individual primarch was more powerful then a single greater daemon while human, one would assume they'd become even more powerful as daemons.

That said, is Lorgar the only daemon prince that doens't fall under any specific god?

[nenjin]

I think Perturabo is also unaligned.

[Tack]

Yup. Bribed his way in with tons of ImpFist gene-seed.


That would be amusing though. "I M DEMUN PRINC OF FURIS. HUNGRY. HHUNGRRY"

[Grim Portent]

Bloodletters, Daemonettes and so on are capable of speech and decision making in the fluff. They all want the same basic things as their god, but they do have free will.

One of the Slaanesh units in the tabletop only came about because a group of Daemonettes disobeyed their orders and went to fight rather than tend his gardens. He punished them by turning them to statues, but decided to let his other Daemonettes use the lawnmowers they had ridden into battle on in future fights because he loved the carnage they caused.

The Changeling (a herald grade daemon) is also possessed of free will, roaming around dicking with people for his own amusement rather than being given orders by Tzeentch.

Ku'Gath, a Great Unclean One, also seeks his own task, trying to replace the most virulent plague Nurgle ever made because he accidently drank it and feels guilty about it.

There are also cross-deity pacts between daemons who have come together to form stronger forces than they could be normally. One is composed of a greater daemon of each god and their attendant armies.

There's also the fact that Soul Grinders can be made of any daemon but are an entirely voluntary process and the gods don't like them at all because they serve the Forge over the gods themselves.



Daemon Princes are mostly far weaker than Greater Daemons. There are exceptions, like the daemon primarchs, but those are exceptions rather than the norm. Compare a tabletop Bloodthirster to a Daemon Prince and there's a pretty distinct difference. Unique princes like Samus do have better stats though, sometimes being stronger than Greater Daemons. This also holds true in the computer games and pen and paper RPGs.

[Teneb]

I think Perturabo is also unaligned.

There's also Be'lakor. But his lore in both 40k and fantasy is so fucked up that it's ok to forget he exists.

[nenjin]

I think Perturabo is also unaligned.

There's also Be'lakor. But his lore in both 40k and fantasy is so fucked up that it's ok to forget he exists.

I just read up on him. That has to be the most generic-ass demon I've ever seen 40k produce. Not surprised that he shows up in 7th ed and beyond.

[Rolepgeek]

Khorne has a structure to his forces, with 8 bloodthirsters being commanded by him, who each command eight more bloodthirsters in turn and so on down through 8 ranks, the lowest rank of which commands the Heralds and Princes who command the war engines and lesser daemons.

It is unclear if the others have their own form of Khorne's daemonic legions or not, though Nurgle at the least likely has some form of hierarchy given how organised Plaguebearers are.

I was gonna say that that didn't seem like that much, but then I remembered what Bloodthirsters actually are. They aren't Bloodletters, like I was thinking of.

19 million Bloodthirsters is rather a lot, though...19 per Space Marine, before counting Chaos Marines...Plus I can easily see each of them commanding at least 64 Bloodletters and associated other Khornate Daemons...

[MetalSlimeHunt]

I think Perturabo is also unaligned.

There's also Be'lakor. But his lore in both 40k and fantasy is so fucked up that it's ok to forget he exists.

I just read up on him. That has to be the most generic-ass demon I've ever seen 40k produce. Not surprised that he shows up in 7th ed and beyond.

I mean, his whole thing is that he's supposed to be generic. He's the Chaos Gods' first daemon project.

[nenjin]

Then I'd expect it to look a little weird and fucked up. That's like a text book demon.

[Dorsidwarf]

Khorne has a structure to his forces, with 8 bloodthirsters being commanded by him, who each command eight more bloodthirsters in turn and so on down through 8 ranks, the lowest rank of which commands the Heralds and Princes who command the war engines and lesser daemons.

It is unclear if the others have their own form of Khorne's daemonic legions or not, though Nurgle at the least likely has some form of hierarchy given how organised Plaguebearers are.

I was gonna say that that didn't seem like that much, but then I remembered what Bloodthirsters actually are. They aren't Bloodletters, like I was thinking of.

19 million Bloodthirsters is rather a lot, though...19 per Space Marine, before counting Chaos Marines...Plus I can easily see each of them commanding at least 64 Bloodletters and associated other Khornate Daemons...

I seem to recall that most of the chaos gods forces fight each other in the Warp, and that Khorne has a whole legion of bloodthirsters fighting each other eternally at the base of his skull-pile

I AM CURIOUS ABOUT THE CHOICES THAT GAVE LED YOU TO THIS MOMENT

[Grim Portent]

There's also the fact that Soul Grinders can be made of any daemon but are an entirely voluntary process and the gods don't like them at all because they serve the Forge over the gods themselves.

I thought Greater Demons were forced to be bound into Soul Grinders? Or was that something else?

Must be something else. Daemons fight each other for the chance to become a Soul Grinder because it allows them to return to realspace from banishment immediately to seek revenge on mortals. They incur a debt to the forgemasters that transform them and are pledged to protect the forge even from the gods.

[LordBaal]

They also rarely (if ever) get out of the debt.

[Avis-Mergulus]

Something something American education system