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[Loud Whispers]

A lot of the Warhammer stuff has an alternate interpretation.

One side is that the God Emperor really isn't anything special and that his death really represents more strongly his death in the eyes of the people... He is put into quite literal life support by the very life and soul of his people.

Yet the reason they don't just let him reach his natural death is because his is needed far too much as a symbol.

Add in that the Warhammer universe is a "Belief = Power" universe... and now you understand how the Emperor protects the imperium just by existing. He is important because everyone believes he is important. His undue importance is his greatest strength and asset.

But the better part? The Emperor is quite unimportant. If anything he is a detriment to the entire imperium. He has reached near figure head levels yet him getting as much as a sore throat gets national news (not that they would ever let him show weakness... Nooo... Likely they will post some sort of new hobby he has)

The Emperor is the most important thing in the Imperium, he is the light of the Astronomicon. Kill the light of the Astronomicon then the Imperium cannot travel through the warp or send messages through the warp, the entirety of the Imperium would collapse into solar segments overnight and the age of man in the milky way would come to an end, likely to be replaced by the age of orks or necrons.

Imagine planet Earth as it is today. And imagine if the entire power grid, all the roads, all the ships, planes, the internet, mail, telegraphs, fax machines and every form of communication and transport right down to two cups attached by string all relied on one thing: An old skeleton sitting on a chair in Tibet.
That's the Emperor

The Emperor is not "quite unimportant", the Emperor is the Imperium

[Neonivek]

Yes, so the Emperor is a fancy schmancy power plant (also powered by belief... And in many ways BECAUSE of that belief they cannot subsist otherwise as they further give him undue importance... as the Elder demonstrate)

But other then that... Yeah he is an overblown figure head at this point.

He isn't a bad character, he is just too popular for his own good. Everyone points to him and fawns over him... But he is meant to be a footnote.

He is the Banks in many ways they need to be taken down and replaced with something that works... But he is too big to fall.

And he is FAAAR too popular to even replace as well. No one could garter as much faith and belief as to even replace him.

[Loud Whispers]

Yes, so the Emperor is a fancy schmancy power plant (also powered by belief... And in many ways BECAUSE of that belief they cannot subsist otherwise as they further give him undue importance... as the Elder demonstrate)

He's not powered by belief, he's powered by the continual sacrifice of psyker souls. They cannot subsist otherwise because there is no alternative to maintaining a FTL civilization, the Eldar webways are fucked and the human webway was never completed

But other then that... Yeah he is an overblown figure head at this point.

So other than being the most important figure in the entire Imperium, he's not important

He isn't a bad character, he is just too popular for his own good. Everyone points to him and fawns over him... But he is meant to be a footnote.

Are you sure you have the right guy?

[pisskop]

well, I mean in another 40k the astronomicon could simply be powered by 1000 souls a day, no emps required to throne it.

It would simply be known as the astronomnomicon.  :waggle:

and, a soul crushing machine powering the heart of the Imperium of Man does have its symbolisms ...

[Rolan7]

There needed to be an Emperor...  Or specifically, there needed to be an Astronomican and also something for humanity to put their faith in.

It could have been Magnus and !!!SCIENCE!!!, with the Emperor hardly relevant.  (Is the emperor even that relevant in WHF?)
But that wouldn't have been as good a story.  Gothic WH40K, while it gets boring occasionally, is a pretty great base.

Fakedit:

Yes, so the Emperor is a fancy schmancy power plant (also powered by belief... And in many ways BECAUSE of that belief they cannot subsist otherwise as they further give him undue importance... as the Elder demonstrate)

He's not powered by belief, he's powered by the continual sacrifice of psyker souls. They cannot subsist otherwise because there is no alternative to maintaining a FTL civilization, the Eldar webways are fucked and the human webway was never completed

The souls power his throne and produce the Astronomican.  The belief makes him unto a god.
Which apparently has various, very real, powers.  Because like Neo is saying, this is a belief-based setting, and humans are... fecund.  Relatively.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

The Emperor isn't powered by the psykers, he's self-powered. It's the Astronomicon that's powered by the psykers, but without the Emperor to direct it it'd be useless. I'm actually not sure if the Astronomicon was powered by the Emperor in his prime, I don't think Horus Heresy ever addressed it. He could direct it on Earth from all the way across the galaxy, though.

[Neonivek]

The Emperor isn't powered by the psykers, he's self-powered

And that is where the interpretations are wonderful. It is entirely within the scope of the canon that the Emperor became a hero to the people and their belief in him basically super charged him to godhood levels. It is a perfectly valid interpretation to believe that he is basically Goku OR that his rise to power is what created his power.

I mean it is already canon that human science is basically nonsense also powered by belief, but to a lesser extent than Orks. What a coincidence that it all relies in the Emperor showering his people with his glory

[Rolan7]

Now, be fair   Mankind offers some of their belief to the machine spirits- in some cases, VERY explicitly!  And they are appeased, and serve the Imperium of man.

Or they're low-level AIs desperate for the basic maintenance which comes with the rites.  You're right, there's so much uncertainty!  It's great.

[Mephisto]

The Emperor is the most important thing in the Imperium, he is the light of the Astronomicon. Kill the light of the Astronomicon then the Imperium cannot travel through the warp or send messages through the warp, the entirety of the Imperium would collapse into solar segments overnight and the age of man in the milky way would come to an end, likely to be replaced by the age of orks or necrons.

I may have my fluff mixed up but don't Rogue Traders (in 40k Roleplay, at least) travel outside of the Astronomican's light? I know they can go through the warp. If they're doing so outside of the emprah's range, then maybe this is just the biggest con that side of the 30th millennium.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Anybody on the Eastern Fringe has to travel beyond the Astronomicon or in places where it only sometimes can be found. It's dangerous beyond words.

[Adragis]

i'm making a space hulk roguelike full of joy and laughter and chaos and tyranids

anyone who wants to playtest or have a heart attack due to my messy code, feel free to pm me

[Grim Portent]

The Emperor is the most important thing in the Imperium, he is the light of the Astronomicon. Kill the light of the Astronomicon then the Imperium cannot travel through the warp or send messages through the warp, the entirety of the Imperium would collapse into solar segments overnight and the age of man in the milky way would come to an end, likely to be replaced by the age of orks or necrons.

I may have my fluff mixed up but don't Rogue Traders (in 40k Roleplay, at least) travel outside of the Astronomican's light? I know they can go through the warp. If they're doing so outside of the emprah's range, then maybe this is just the biggest con that side of the 30th millennium.

Humans can sail outside the range of the Astronomicon, it's just extremely dangerous. It's like sailing through a coral reef in the middle of the Atlantic, with extra rocks, at night, in a fog and with no lights around, in a wooden boat. You're very likely to get lost and/or capsize. In the Warp both of these options are terrible.

The Astronomicon has a few functions, for one it's a psychic lighthouse. Navigators can orientate themselves on galactic maps based on the direction of the Astronomicon and the flow of the Warp currents around the ship. It also slightly suppresses daemonic activity in it's vicinity, with it being reduced more the closer you are to Terra. Lastly it serves as a form of psychic reassurance for the Imperial psykers strong enough to hear/feel it (which are very rare,) who are constantly able to sense it as a warm glow or soothing song in the distance, though only when close to it.

It's also a good way to get rid of unstable psykers. You can just feed them into the Throne to power it with no risk of them exploding into daemons and you even get some cool anti-psyker/daemon materials out as a byproduct. 

[Tack]

Humanity would have steam rolled everything else.

Yawn.
During the great crusade the Eldar were still in post-fall shock, the tau were trapped behind a warp storm and the necrons and tyranids weren't even players yet.
Regardless of the Emperor's status, the Space Marine legions had been gutted and divided and Roboute Guilliman's reforms would have still have crippled the rest.

The manufacturing and military capabilities of the imperium wouldn't have magically kicked into perfection simply because golden boy was still kicking. Mars had been gutted, the imperium had been kicked in the teeth and it still would've been a limping recovery.

Of course they wouldn't have Magically won the battle against the Tau- it was primarily an air battle so even having the Big Shiny on the front lines wouldn't have changed things much.
Diplomacy might have gone better except that Emps was a notable xenophobe, so it wouldn't have happened anyway.

The two single biggest changes I can say could have tipped the balance is:
1. The second founding wouldn't have failed, and might have happened earlier
(If it had even happened. The high lords voted for it but Emps might not have)
So that's a bundle of extra space Marines which could have helped the imperium (or gone chaotic and caused more mayhem)

2. The emperor, whilst not being as good a beurocrat as the high lords of Terra, certainly was a more decisive leader, so certain events such as the Badab campaign may not have happened.


At the end of the day he was a pretty flawed person, so the amount of emotional trauma even from the heresy could have been a blow beyond telling anyway.
Maybe he's not dead, just sulking?

[Dorsidwarf]

Humanity would have steam rolled everything else.

Yawn.
During the great crusade the Eldar were still in post-fall shock, the tau were trapped behind a warp storm and the necrons and tyranids weren't even players yet.
Regardless of the Emperor's status, the Space Marine legions had been gutted and divided and Roboute Guilliman's reforms would have still have crippled the rest.

The manufacturing and military capabilities of the imperium wouldn't have magically kicked into perfection simply because golden boy was still kicking. Mars had been gutted, the imperium had been kicked in the teeth and it still would've been a limping recovery.

Of course they wouldn't have Magically won the battle against the Tau- it was primarily an air battle so even having the Big Shiny on the front lines wouldn't have changed things much.
Diplomacy might have gone better except that Emps was a notable xenophobe, so it wouldn't have happened anyway.

The two single biggest changes I can say could have tipped the balance is:
1. The second founding wouldn't have failed, and might have happened earlier
(If it had even happened. The high lords voted for it but Emps might not have)
So that's a bundle of extra space Marines which could have helped the imperium (or gone chaotic and caused more mayhem)

2. The emperor, whilst not being as good a beurocrat as the high lords of Terra, certainly was a more decisive leader, so certain events such as the Badab campaign may not have happened.


At the end of the day he was a pretty flawed person, so the amount of emotional trauma even from the heresy could have been a blow beyond telling anyway.
Maybe he's not dead, just sulking?

uh, what?

The Eldar are still not a large-scale threat to the Imperium 10,000 years after their collapse, even if they're very dangerous on a local level.
During the Great Crusade the tau hadn't discovered *fire*. They were tribal cavemen 5000 years after the Heresy until the ethereals showed up and kick-started their scienceboner.
Big E always had a "submit to our total dominion and let live" approach to non-hostile xenos, compared to the modern-day imperial policy he might as well be space-gandhi


A lot of the imperium's flagging strength, beyond simple "It broke and got destroyed by the fukken heretics/aliens/traitors and we cant make a new one" is due to short-term greed and self-interest in the highest of ranks. The Imperial Cult also wouldn't have grown into the Ecclesiaarchy so the whole big murder time with Goge Vandire wouldn't have happened. Basically the entire outlook of the imperium and its citizens would be different, although I *do* disagree that humanity would shitstomp things.

The Emps was also a scientist too, see: invention of the Astronomican, creation of human webway. He sure as hell wouldn't have applied the clamps to all innovation in the galaxy like the Imperium did in his absence

[Tack]

True re: science, and we could've seen a lot more Tau/Necron reverse engineering (like we're seeing with the sexy modern deathwatch)

But I recall literally part of the imperial creed was the "supremacy of man" and "intolerance of alien agendas"
I thought the reason diplomacy between the humans and Eldar broke down was because Emps decided "no matter how friendly/subservient they are now, they will always put the needs of their own race above the needs of man".

Of course, my sources for all this jazz are foggy at best