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[Kot]

If the Imperium could just churn out billions of reliable Chaos detectors -- not warp phenomena detectors, but specifically Chaos detectors, since you want to bolt them to psykers -- don't you think they'd already be doing that everywhere?

The Heresy meter could work.

[wierd]

If the Imperium could just churn out billions of reliable Chaos detectors -- not warp phenomena detectors, but specifically Chaos detectors, since you want to bolt them to psykers -- don't you think they'd already be doing that everywhere?

The Heresy meter could work.

There's also the fact that this brain is in a two-way technological system, that can monitor the activity of that brain.  I somehow doubt the imperium is going to make EVERYONE into cyborgs.


*groan*

How many times, do I have to state, that you are conditioning these minds, FOR THAT REALITY.  Eg, YOU DO IN FACT, TELL THEM.  You just do so, when their training is nearing completion, and you monitor their reactions to that revelation. (If they go bonkers, the plug is automatically pulled, BEFORE they manifest.)

If chaos tells them the fucking obvious, what do you think would happen?

But-- since you keep saying things like this:

So we're back at the square one of mass genocide on unrivaled scale, right?

you have ALREADY decided that they will all fail, for reasons you have yet to truly specify.  The closest you have come is asserting that true belief is the only suitable armor, but you incorrectly assert that because they grew up inside a simulation, that they are incapable of holding a belief as being axiomatically true. (which is what true belief actually is.)

It is these kinds of "NO, NUH UH!" that I find objectionable here.  The basic rules of how these metaphysics works, clearly shows how this CAN work.

[Kot]

How many times, do I have to state, that you are conditioning these minds, FOR THAT REALITY.  Eg, YOU DO IN FACT, TELL THEM.  You just do so, when their training is nearing completion, and you monitor their reactions to that revelation. (If they go bonkers, the plug is automatically pulled, BEFORE they manifest.)

So mass murder again, and complete loss of invested resources.

If chaos tells them the fucking obvious, what do you think would happen?

I don't know, they seem to be good at telling people obvious things in a way that makes them do weird things, see Horus Heresy. They also lie a lot. Oh, and can actually promise a real body, for what it's worth.

[wierd]

Why do you NEED a real body, when you can manifest reality at your whim?

That's like offering a human a dog's body, and thinking it would be compelling.


And-- AGAIN with the "No! Wont work apriori for reasons I consider true, but are not actually how a human psyche works!"


See also, the crazy shit a cult gets people to do by monopolizing the channel of communication.  These kids would be indoctrinated to accept these kinds of realities in exactly this way.  They would truly BELIEVE their coming transformation is REAL.  The knowledge that they will die if they fail, would be imparted very early in the process, and only if it truly makes them crack, would the plug get pulled.


You are jumping immediately to the conclusion that "Nobody could endure that!"

You are mistaken.  People endure that all the time. Many primitive cultures have such lessons in them.

[Kot]

Why do you NEED a real body, when you can manifest reality at your whim?

That's like offering a human a dog's body, and thinking it would be compelling.

I don't know, like, eating and I don't know, having sex or something. Also, actually moving yourself around. You're grossly overestimating the abilities of your generic psyker if you think they can effectively exist as a brain in jar.

[wierd]

Their true existence would be within the immaterium, bro. That's where their senses would be.  They would exist in a way humans don't. Not even normal psykers.


Without hormones from gonads, they wouldnt have a sex drive either.  You are confusing the normality of your existence, and how you would miss it, with being cause for these beings to be mad from that loss.

Are people that are born blind, insane by their lack of sight?  No.  No they are not. 

[Digital Hellhound]

The Warp can affect technology just as much as people. Take scrapcode or those corrupted Men of Iron. Then you need a Chaos detector for the Chaos detector, and on and on. Tech-priests are trained to identify that sort of thing, but then you're shoving tech-priests in with these brain containers too. And they're another vulnerability, all alone in the void...

I'm just... not really grasping the use of mass-cloning psyker brains. I kinda feel like these brains might not even get souls that they'd need for psychic ability. Even if it worked, it seems like the conditions would drive them to insanity and straight to possession very quickly. If not, would they be human enough? Can you really indoctrinate a brain in a jar? How will it comprehend the world with no body or sensation? It has no way to understand the indoctrination or what it needs to do. To fight the Warp and instill order, a psyker needs will and focus.

Let's say they don't go insane or anything. Let's say they understand the indoctrination. How does that make them immune to the whispers of the Warp? The Imperium indoctrinates its citizens and forces too, and they're still very vulnerable to corruption.

[wierd]

Which is why these pods are not in corrupt space.

There is insufficient chaos there to do that kind of thing.

You make them resistant, by simulating that experience, as part of their conditioning.  That's something you can ONLY do with a full simulated experience.  The conditioning process has the children experience, what to them, is an instructor-led series of meditations and trials, where they get such temptations, and build resistances to those methods.  Basically, they get to experience the wiles of chaos, before chaos actually gets to touch them.

[Trekkin]

Well, they could always be offered the experience of Chaos, which you've emphatically denied them by dint of the self-destruct mechanism. Maybe they'd get curious about what they aren't allowed to know about but constantly interact with. People tend to do that.

[Kot]

Their true existence would be within the immaterium, bro.

So you mean in quite literally what could be equated with hell? Nice.

That's where their senses would be.

Not exactly how it works, but sure.

They would exist in a way humans don't. Not even normal psykers.

What? They would exist in the exact same way humans do. Everyone has a soul in Immaterium. It's literally built from souls.

Without hormones from gonads, they wouldnt have a sex drive either.  You are confusing the normality of your existence, and how you would miss it, with being cause for these beings to be mad from that loss.

Are people that are born blind, insane by their lack of sight?  No.  No they are not.

You're the one who said they're being fed a fake normal existence for the time they "grow up". You are giving them a shadow of normality and thinking they wouldn't want to have the real thing, not to mention severing them from that shadow with the revelation of it being a lie.

Which is why these pods are not in corrupt space.

There is insufficient chaos there to do that kind of thing.

They're fucking psykers. They don't need anyone around them, they're already having a direct telephone line to the warp with their brain. Psykers don't explode into daemons because there are other people next to them, they explode because their own connection overloaded.

STOP FUCKING POSTING SO FAST GODDAMIT

[wierd]

Kot--  Kot.


It takes 13 years, for them to become psykers.

Before then, they are not.  In that time, there is insufficient chaos in the area to do that kind of trick; The systems inside would not be at risk, because there is no source of chaos to do it. The autotermination system would activate before that transformation happens, so there is never a point where the system that does the indoctrination would be at high risk.


You keep returning to the "BUT PSYKERS!!! OMG!"--- while ignoring that it is a sudden, and profound change for them.


Also, Parallel time.

I will pick on christianity.


Christianity teaches that the time you are alive, is not the real reality; The real reality is a spiritual reality with God presiding over everything.  As such, the sufferings of the body are meaningless. The wants, needs, urges of the flesh are to be abstained from, and focus given to the spiritual.

This is a real reality; People hold to this set of doctrines, even when there is no evidence.

This would be similar.  The child would be told, straight up, that what they are experiencing is not real. That the real reality will be made manifest to them when they are older, and that they need to be prepared for it, or it will destroy them.  This is the truth.  They would grow up with this knowledge, and it would be true belief for them.  They would grow up with the experiences of the simulated reality, but they would already beleive those experiences to be false.  In that time, they would have had simulated encounters with the immaterium as part of their training, to better prepare them for the real reality they would experience.

Again, a powerful mind can reshape the immaterium. See also, the big assed beacon Big E projects into it.

While the immaterium is dominated by hell, the idea is to put enough of these beings into action, that their combined mental energy transforms the immaterium. The immaterium was not always a hell. It is not necessary for it to be one. 

[Digital Hellhound]

These brains apparently have thoughts and emotions, so they're tapping into the Warp. They're making that space vulnerable from the get-go. I'm not sure I buy that Chaos couldn't affect the space anyway, I'd think their gathered power allows them to reach into isolated places.

EDIT: You can't post without all these ninjas. Emperor preserve us.

[wierd]

Again-- Non-chaos space.

Far away from other intelligence sources.

Very far apart from each other.


There would be more danger in the systems failing in a room filled with technicians, than with this one, lone, not-a-psyker-yet brain.

[Kot]

You keep returning to the "BUT PSYKERS!!! OMG!"--- while ignoring that it is a sudden, and profound change for them.

Which often results in them exploding into daemons. You don't need a long period of time to corrupt someone who is literally a living conduit to the warp.

These brains apparently have thoughts and emotions, so they're tapping into the Warp. They're making that space vulnerable from the get-go. I'm not sure I buy that Chaos couldn't affect the space anyway, I'd think their gathered power allows them to reach into isolated places.

Maybe, but I'd rather point out that Chaos has it's own agents in Materium. As I said, bunch of Disorder Vacuum Seamen could just scoop up the tanks one by one, because they could presumably be tracked by Chaos-aligned psykers, what with having a soul and floating in middle of fucking nowhere, so there's barely any background noise. And since you're spreading them randomly in Galaxy, you should note that warp storms are unpredictable and they do not require people to sustain.

[wierd]

That sudden transformation wont be so "sudden", is the point I am trying to drive home.

That mind would already have been "vaccinated."


As for chaos space marines picking them up--- Put a proximity mine in the damn thing.  You WANT these things to explode spectacularly at the slightest bit of tampering, before they can awaken.  Once awakened, they can alter physical reality around themselves as they see fit, because they are psykers. Those bombs wont mean a thing to them.