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[Lord Shonus]

EDIT: Wait, did you just make the elves a Species of Hats with being pansexual?

No, omnisexual, as in "anything that moves, or doesn't". At one point the elven race was down to about thirty individuals, and since elves CAN breed with anything, they DID breed with anything. At this point, the only reason the elves don't have a high population is that they keep picking fights.

Also, I never viewed Aprilia as a particularly "immoral" nation, more as one where the morals are grounded in completely different places. The "legal murder" applies only to people capable of defending themselves, and isn't that different from the dueling codes of yesteryear, although less formal. Their tolerance for cannibalism, like their sexual mores, comes from their longstanding association with and influence from the elves, most of whom settled in Kri'Stak over the first dozen centuries or so of the Empire. Cinnabar is the one that I deliberately cast as somewhat immoral.

[Rolepgeek]

My only issue with it is that it seems like you're saying that every elf is like that without err. If you simply meant the vast majority, then okay.

This may partially be because I'm probably going to be a Gray Elf. Though I don't know if having a Bard and a Beguiler in the same party is overly redundant or anything.

If not a Beguiler, then probably either a Scout of some sort. Hmmm. Difficult to decide, since I don't like playing the 'true' primary spellcasters much, and there's no Tome of Battle.

Is homebrew allowed if we present it to you and let you make changes to it as desired?

[Lord Shonus]

I'va already approved one homebrew class on Gitp, so feel free to bring it up.

[Rolepgeek]

It's not done yet, and I noticed issues with it, but basically everything is more or less set for it. Already have most of it written up, too. Just needs looked over, suggestions made, things changed to your like, and of course to have everything finished up and smoothed out.

Spoiler: Manavoid Templar (click to show/hide)

Prerequisites:
BAB: +5 (+7?)
Feats: Mage Slayer, Combat Reflexes (Iron Will?)
Skills: Knowledge (religion) 8(10) ranks (Knowledge (arcana) 4(5) ranks? Spellcraft 4(5) ranks? Concentration?)
Special: Must be inducted into the [insert name here] Order, and have antimagic tattoos engraved into their flesh. In order to gain the benefits of their class abilities after leveling up, they(or the Order) must spend 1000 gp times the level of Manavoid Templar they just reached, in a process that takes 1d4+3 days to complete, with eight-hour continuous sessions each day.

Hit Die: d10
Class Skills: Climb, Craft (all), Heal, Intimidate, Jump, Knowledge (arcana, nobility & royalty, the planes, religion), Spellcraft (Concentration? Ride? Others?)
Skill Points per level: 2 + Int modifier
Proficiencies: No proficiencies gained.

BAB: Good
Fort: Good
Ref: Poor
Will: Poor


Level - Class Features
   1   - Detect Magic, Magic Resistance
   2   - Dispel Magic 1/day, Disrupt Casting
   3   - Null Mana, Fast Healing Pierce Magical Protection,
   4   - Dispel Magic 2/day, Magic Evasion (?)
   5   - Improved Magic Resistance, Mettle, Drain Mana
   6   - Greater Dispel Magic 3/day, Manavoid Body, Improved Fast Healing, Pierce Magical Concealment
   7   - Spellbane Sight,
   8   - Greater Dispel Magic 4/day, Absorb Mana
   9   - Greater Magic Resistance, Manavoid Soul, Greater Fast Healing
  10  - Supreme Dispel Magic 5/day, Antimagic Aura

Detect Magic (Sp): A Manavoid Templar may use Detect Magic at will, as the spell.

Magic Resistance (Su): The Manavoid Templar receives a bonus on saves against magic or magical effects(this includes most supernatural abilities) equal to one-half their class level+their Charisma bonus(if any), rounded up. At level 5, they gain Spell Resistance equal to 14+their class level+their Charisma bonus(if any). If the Manavoid Templar already has Spell Resistance from another class or ability, their class level stacks, and they add their Charisma bonus(if any), unless the Spell Resistance uses HD or character level, or already adds their Charisma bonus. At level 9, the Manavoid Templar is so resistant to magic that [Work in progress: For one thing, a way to continue increasing their Spell Resistance after they max out their level would be pretty good. Originally, they just became immune to spells below a certain level, period, but I scrapped back when I was first making the class since that seemed a bit much.]

Dispel Magic (Sp): Starting at level 2, the Manavoid Templar may use Dispel Magic as the spell, once per day, with a bonus to their dispel check equal to their class level+5+their Charisma bonus(if any). Every additional two class levels gives them another use of Dispel Magic per day. At level 6, their skill at dismissing magic improves, and they may instead use Greater Dispel Magic as the spell, an equal number of times per day. At level 10, they become so proficient at breaking through magical protections that they [Work in progress: Suggestions welcome! Maybe a little watered down version of Mordenkainen's Disjunction, with additional bonuses to the Dispel Check?]

Pierce Magical Protection: At level 2, the Manavoid Templar gains Pierce Magical Protection as a bonus

Disrupt Casting (Ex): At level 2, the Manavoid Templar becomes more proficient at harassing magic-users and breaking their concentration; as a result, they may choose to attempt to disrupt a spellcaster they threaten as they are casting, effectively counterspelling it, instead of making an attack of opportunity. [The Templar makes an attack roll against the caster, who makes a Concentration check using the attack roll as the DC.] In addition, they may take one five-foot step as an immediate action once per round when an enemy within thirty feet attempts to cast a spell.
~I'm not sure I like the way this works right now; it's either this, or they make an attack roll against the caster and if it hits, the spell is disrupted. They've got about equal weight in my mind right now.

Null Mana (Ex): At level 3, the tattoos covering the Templar's body have become intricate enough that the Templar's body is devoid of much of it's natural magic. They take a -10 to any Use Magic Device check they attempt, and are undetectable by Detect spells. They must also make a save against any magic that allows one, though they may take a -10 to their roll if they wish. Finally, they take a caster level penalty equal to their class level when attempting to cast any spell or use a spell-like ability outside of their class features from this class. ((also, it shouldn't affect Detect Evil, but I'm not sure if caster level makes a difference there)).

Fast Healing (Su): At third level, the tattoos covering the Templar also enhance his vitality, absorbing the background magic in their surroundings to enhance the Templar's healing. The Manavoid Templar heals twice as quickly from natural means. This improves to three times as quickly at sixth level, and four times as quickly at ninth level.

Magic Evasion (Ex?): Work in Progress: I have no idea what I meant for this to be when I had written it; Evasion that only works for magical effects? I really don't remember, sorry.

Mettle (Ex): Beginning at 5th level, if you succeed on a Fortitude or Will save against an attack that would normally produce a lesser effect on a successful save (such as a spell with a saving throw entry of Will half or Fortitude partial), you instead negate the effect. (Manavoid Templars still gain the benefit of mettle while unconscious or sleeping.?)

Drain Mana (Su): Work in Progress: I sorta remember what this was supposed to be. You could drain spell levels from casters and use them to heal yourself or something.)

Manavoid Body (Ex): Work in Progress: I definitely remember what this was supposed to be, I just need to remember how to word it and how it was split between Null Mana, Manavoid Body, and Manavoid Soul. I think this one made you undetectable by an even larger range of spells and some supernatural abilities, making it so you couldn't take a penalty when saving against magic, that you couldn't lower your spell resistance to allow friendly spells to go through, made it so magical equipment was either non-magical in your hands, or just a little less effective, while enemy magical items were similarly affected when being used against you, you cannot cast spells or use activated magical items, you don't set off Contingency spells, Explosive Runes, Alarms, Symbols(though you can be affected by them, if you fail saves and they get past SR), Zones,(or at least against all of those things they either have to overcome your SR or you get a save for them to just think you(and your gear) don't exist), etc.

Pierce Magical Concealment: At level 6, the Manavoid Templar gains Pierce Magical Concealment as a bonus feat(a bit underwhelming at this point, I know; originally they got it, and Pierce Magical Protection, a few levels sooner).

Spellbane Sight (Ex?): At level 7, the Manavoid Templar is so skilled at breaking magic user's concentration that they can do so with a glance; they may now disrupt the casting of a spell by any caster within 30 feet as an immediate action by making an [Intimidate check? Attack roll? I dunno.] opposed by the caster's Concentration check. Additionally, any caster within 30 feet of the Manavoid Templar takes a penalty to all Concentration checks equal to the Manavoid Templar's class level(+their Charisma bonus(if any)?).

Absorb Mana (Su): At level 8, the tattoos covering every inch of the Manavoid Templar's body eat magic from whatever source they can. Any spell that fails to penetrate the Manavoid Templar's Spell Resistance is absorbed, and the Manavoid Templar gains (temporary?) hp equal to (3)? times the spell's level.

Manavoid Soul (Ex): Work in Progress: Again, I remember what this was meant to be, I just need to remember what exactly it was meant to have, and how to word it. Magical item abilities are cursed while used against, for, or by the character, that much is for sure(yes, this includes cursed items, but I dunno about Artifacts and intelligent items). Undetectable by any magic from the Divination school and such, immune to scrying, etc. that sort of thing. Oh, and effectively permanent True Seeing against magical effects and the like.

Antimagic Aura (Su): At level 10, the Manavoid Templar has mastery over his tattoos, which have become unfathomably complex and powerful. The Manavoid Templar can exert an Antimagic Field as a free action, which lasts until he chooses to drop it(also a free action). It remains in place even if the Manavoid Templar is knocked unconscious or falls asleep. It functions as the spell, except that it is a supernatural ability(, and can have a radius of either 10 feet, or 30 feet, at the the Manavoid Templar's choice.? Either a variable range, or just one of the two, period, I think. Probably 10 feet, in all likelihood.)

Spoiler: Balancing Notes For Self&Others (click to show/hide)

I made it to be an actually effective counter to spellcasters, designed for the Paladin, and better at not being shit than the Suel Arcanamach. I think it's pretty good at that. It suffers pretty heavily against giant creatures and the like without some major support/building(I should find a way to make it so they don't become completely useless against dragons or something...speaking of which, I think they need a way to deal with summoned creatures more easily/at all) at the higher levels, and the sneaky classes, particularly rogues, become EXTREMELY dangerous to them, since they can't get the bonuses of Fortification and such. And dropping a really big rock on them still works.

Actually, realized some things about the Manavoid Templar. Some...issues.

Basically, as I made it, it's broken. Broken not in that it's overpowered(it might be, but not my point). Broken in that it's useless in every situation that isn't fighting a spellcaster at close range.

I'm rethinking the flavor for it, and rebalancing abilities and such in my brain to help it. Basically the issues with it are this:

Lack of versatility: It fights mages. Doesn't help allies at all like something called a Templar should, really, can in fact hurt them with Spellbane Sight(penalty to Concentration checks affects friendlies too, as it is now), it doesn't fight normal combatants very well, even ones relying on magic equipment, since the Templar doesn't get magic equipment either, and so on. He is terrible at anything that isn't fighting mages. Fixes to this are going to include:
Aura that boosts allies resistance to magic, and protective abilities related to keeping allies safe from them evil casters. Probably the ability to draw enemy magic/psionics(?)/spell-like abilities etc., towards themself - their body absorbs magic in the surrounding area, affecting the natural currents of magic, etc.: basically they're a black hole for magic at a certain point. Which is how the class is going to be restructured towards; magic can go in, but it doesn't go out. Except for that Gamma Ray beam shit that comes out of black holes. That'll fuck you up.
Abilities that allow them to fight non-mages a bit more effectively. Not to where they're truly on par, just to where they aren't totally useless, even in a one on one fight. Mostly this is in the form of the manavoid soul and such affecting their ability to fight. The mana currents swirling around them form a shield similar to that of a ring of deflection, for example, and the constant influx of energy means they can fight without tiring, at a higher level. Since I'm wanting there to be a dark tone around the edges of the class, (antimagic in a world of magic=?evil?) they may turn into Outsiders(native) at level 9 or 10. Since they're already basically immune to magic by that point, it really doesn't affect much beyond flavor, I think. I'd like to explain more thoroughly about the whole dark aspect of them at a later point.

Lack of utility: They are, as it is, purely a combat class. This really isn't helpful, especially since if they aren't affected by even friendly magic and items, they are utterly useless in a number of situations, and make some challenges completely unsolvable. Dispel Magic and their 'undetectable by X' doesn't really help much, since Dispel Magic is unreliable, and they aren't exactly going to be sneaking anyway. Being unable to use passive magic items is just untenable, in DnD, especially at high levels, which is when it would affect them.
Fixes to this are going to include:
Revamp to the way they interact with friendly magic and magic items, based on their lore - basically, they absorb and repurpose magic that comes at them so it doesn't hurt them, normally; but if the magic is already beneficial, there's no need to repurpose it, so while it still absorbs it, it just uses it to do basically the same thing that would have been done anyway. Penalties may be applied to magic affecting them, probably in the form of duration of buffs and the like, and they might be unable to activate magic items that require activation in any way, rather than being purely passive, but still. Magic items used against them could probably be handled in a slightly different way. As well, they'd probably have to resist certain forms of buffs, still; Enlarge Person isn't something 'natural' that their body can use, and it isn't something they necessarily like, and such, so their body would try to eat it instead of using it. Oh, and not hurting friendly spellcasters(as long as they aren't too close).
Changes to things like Dispel Magic and Drain Mana, so that the two are probably combined into Drain Magic; they have to be close range, but they can eat those Symbols or the like, effectively an at-will Dispel Magic with a range of touch, in all likelihood, and an extra effect if you use it on a spellcaster. Would have to gain some of the abilities as they level up, of course. Also, Dispelling Strike, such that they can make sunder attempts and the like and use Drain Mana through that, or simply as part of a normal attack, to suppress the abilities of the magic weapons of enemies they fight. Possibly something like when they get hit with a magic weapon they suppress it's magic for a few rounds as their body immediately attacks the magic in it, and the like. So magic items could be used against them, they'd just be less effective. Which is the point.
Probably a bunch more Aura things anyway, unrelated to utility, but related to fighting non-mages, perhaps: putting one up that prevents triggered/activated magic items from being triggered/activated near them, maybe. That sort of thing.

Also, I'm almost considering giving them some very minor maneuvers. Probably not, but...I dunno. It's what made melee classes viable, in a lot of people's minds, and while he's still a mage-slayer primarily, he needs to be useful outside of fighting mages. Which brings me to my next point, though hopefully it's solved by the above stuff.

Weakness to big creatures: Anything bigger than them will fuck them over, most of the time, as activated magic items and buffs are an important part of that. Allowing them to use passive magic items will really help, but they need a way to deal with Summoned Creatures before just an Antimagic field(perhaps an upgraded version of Dispelling Strike being Banishing Strike?), non-magical giant creatures(likely dealt with in the usual way; let it hit you while the mages kill it), and magical creatures of various sorts(probably a way to fuck with it's natural magic(are Rust Monsters magical that way? If so, Templars might be the best fighter-type solution short of a barbarian with a greatclub)).

With all this additional crap, they need some stuff changed/taken away, of course, most of which will be some of the rather redundant stuff, like Dispel Magic, Magic Evasion(still don't know what it's for...), Mettle if necessary, Fast Healing since they can get magically healed again, etc.

Thoughts?

[Lord Shonus]

That seems like a serious mix of being underpowered and overpowered. Most of the abilities are pretty bad overall, while the capstone is ludicrously good, even if you get it a bit late.Has there been any playtesting done on it? I think I understand the concept, but as written I don't see it being functional even if you completed the missing sections.

[Rolepgeek]

Aye, which is why changes need to be made to it. To make him more about tanking the magic and negating stuff than being unable to use magic items or have them used against him.

The antimagic field, even just a 10-foot one, is overpowered then? I mean, he'd be fucked by a Stormtrooper or Lockdown build, most times, as far as I can tell.

Also; thus the balancing notes. No playtesting has been done so far, as I haven't gotten to play enough.

[Heron TSG]

I'm in, gonna read up more in a sec. I'm posting from a public library; I won't have internet to do a whole lot until the 8th. If there's a session before then, I can try to make it work.

[Lucus Casius]

I think the first is actually going to be on the 8th, so you should be fine.

[tryrar]

Wow, I never really got to play in a campaign of yours Shonus, but I've heard only good things, so I'll try to come up with a char. maybe a bog-standard sword-and-shield knight? There were a couple shield feats I wanted to try out...

edit: I'm assuming standard equipment of weapon and armor? Also, exactly how detailed of a background do you want?

[RAM]

I, umm, am not sure if I would still be able to connect and stuff. I am sort of vaguely thinking of a kobold sorcerer, probably either focusing upon rays or necrotic cysts. But I am not doing so well right now so I might take a while to get involved, if at all, so I regret that I will be very noncommittal at this juncture. Kobolds do not seem to have a strong presence in nondraconic society. It may be fun to have a bit of a superiority complex about draconic culture while also desperately trying to disguise myself to seem as nonmagical and humanoid as possible. Perhaps pursuing some sort of grudge against goblins that they were unable to satisfy in their homeland...

Sheet:http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheet.html#id=745843

[tryrar]

Ok, very,very preliminary, but here's Denzel. I have a basic backstory in my head(father is a soldier who taught him a hammer-and-shield-based fighting art, now he want's to fight too), just need to fill out the details, descriptions, and maybe mod my equip based on what we are allowed to have starting out(I don't remember the starting packages off the top of my head, so I just went with anything 100g or less)

[Lord Shonus]

Fighters get 6d4 starting gold. I can roll this for you, or you can use the average result of 150. Your current equipment has a value of only 115.

[RAM]

Just to clarify, for anyone who is as easily confused as myself, that is 6d4x10

[tryrar]

Yeah, found the values. I'll take the average, since that's more than enough for what I need(I can get a steel shield instead of a wooden shield)

[Lord Shonus]

From the looks of your build, spikes might not be a bad idea.