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Author Topic: Choose-Your-Own-Masquerade - Dance 3 - TOWN WIN  (Read 61087 times)

4maskwolf

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Re: Choose-Your-Own-Masquerade - Dance 3 - TOWN WIN
« Reply #945 on: August 14, 2014, 10:17:57 am »

mixed blessings should probably be clarified to "an equal point value of flaws" if that's what it means.  Also, since santa costs only four, three seems a little too expensive for a power with a net gain of zero.

Can you clarify what raise dead does?

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Re: Choose-Your-Own-Masquerade - Dance 3 - TOWN WIN
« Reply #946 on: August 14, 2014, 10:33:44 am »

New powers include Super-Curse (give a player a specific flaw)

Combined with Nonvoter, this is probably overpowered.  That and Lover. (Free-Supercurse, make everyone lovers, huge death chain, many lols are had.  This would make a hilarious SK build, actually.  Can you get hit with Lover more than once?)

Hypnotism (Target mask uses one of their powers, randomly selected, on a target of your choice).

Does it count as the player's action for the day?

Can you hypnotised a Raised Dead played?

7 - Recall (name a power: all players holding a power have to sell it back to the store. Players with Flexible still get full XP back. Doesn't effect innate powers.)
7 - Grand Swap (All masks are permanently redistributed to different players.)

Not partial to these two.  D1 recall kill, laugh at scumteam.  Third Parties will love Grand Swap.

I don't see a nerf for Graverob in there, which it probably needs (4 point cost).  I agree that Chat is overcosted; experiments with Scroll of Mail in Roguelike shows that people rarely use such abilities.

Vote Steal permanently takes 1 vote from a player

This is overpowered.  It should be just for the phase.
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HMR stands for Hazardous Materials Requisition, not Horrible Massive Ruination, though I can understand how one could get confused.
God help us if we have to agree on pizza toppings at some point. There will be no survivors.

notquitethere

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Re: Choose-Your-Own-Masquerade - Dance 3 - TOWN WIN
« Reply #947 on: August 14, 2014, 11:39:48 am »

Wolf
mixed blessings should probably be clarified to "an equal point value of flaws" if that's what it means.  Also, since santa costs only four, three seems a little too expensive for a power with a net gain of zero.
Yeah, you're right: I'll make it one cheaper and clarify the wording.

Can you clarify what raise dead does?
Players will see this message:

4maskwolf, wearing the Chrome mask, has been raised as a zombie.

And then there'll be a patsy with all of 4masks powers hanging around in a chrome mask, ready to be mask swapped or hypnotised or whatever. The player is still dead though. I've renamed it Raise Zombie, to make it less ambiguous.

Toaster
New powers include Super-Curse (give a player a specific flaw)
Combined with Nonvoter, this is probably overpowered.  That and Lover. (Free-Supercurse, make everyone lovers, huge death chain, many lols are had.  This would make a hilarious SK build, actually.  Can you get hit with Lover more than once?)
A player can't ever recieve the same flaw more than once. Hmm, I can either make it more expensive or I could instead have a cheaper Infect power that copies one of your flaws onto a player as another fun option for scum to try to get round the kill limit. Both are proposed in the latest list below.

Hypnotism (Target mask uses one of their powers, randomly selected, on a target of your choice).
Does it count as the player's action for the day?
No, but it does count towards a scum's kill count. So scum could hypnotise town into making extra kills, but they couldn't get more kills hypnotising each other.

Can you hypnotised a Raised Dead played?
Yeah, that's why scum might raise a dead player with a kill rather than take the kill.

7 - Recall (name a power: all players holding a power have to sell it back to the store. Players with Flexible still get full XP back. Doesn't effect innate powers.)
7 - Grand Swap (All masks are permanently redistributed to different players.)
Not partial to these two.  D1 recall kill, laugh at scumteam.  Third Parties will love Grand Swap.
Yeah, I think I'll recall Recall. I want more Mask jiggery-pokery, can you suggest an alternative to Grand Swap? (Or I could just make it mega-expensive.)


I don't see a nerf for Graverob in there, which it probably needs (4 point cost).  I agree that Chat is overcosted; experiments with Scroll of Mail in Roguelike shows that people rarely use such abilities.
Yep, I think that was just another version mis-match: Grave-rob is nerfed a little in the latest version below.

Vote Steal permanently takes 1 vote from a player
This is overpowered.  It should be just for the phase.
... yeah, you're right. Luckily it never came up, because the original wording was ambiguous on that point.

Latest version, including new tentative Infection and Nerf powers. Also, there's a few extra autos, including Self Assured:


Spoiler: Current Power List (click to show/hide)
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Leafsnail

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Re: Choose-Your-Own-Masquerade - Dance 3 - TOWN WIN
« Reply #948 on: August 14, 2014, 11:57:27 am »

I scrapped recycle, it just managed to sneak back into my local list.
Was the removal of autoblock intentional then?  I quite like it as a way to prevent town breaking strategies.

I'll make it mutually exclusive with unable to vote, but Unable To Vote has no chance of killing you if you make a bad choice so I'm not sure it's less severe.
Guilty Conscience also has no chance of killing you if you don't vote (which is the same restriction you'd have under UtV), but you can also vote safely if an obvious mafia member comes up.

I'm still tempted to re-include conversions.
How about if scum could convert only one player in the course of the game or something?  That means scum would still have a way to cast doubt on confirmed townies without allowing super-cults.

7 - Tempt (Target is sent an offer: they can join the scum team or they can choose not to. The target can send a single message with this action attempt. This power can never be self targeted.)
It's an interesting idea, but I think it has a severe flaw.  The player is likely to accept if the mafia is doing well (so super-cults could rapidly take over the town) but refuse if the mafia is doing badly (so it doesn't help much in stopping town breaking strategies).

Combined with Nonvoter, this is probably overpowered.  That and Lover. (Free-Supercurse, make everyone lovers, huge death chain, many lols are had.  This would make a hilarious SK build, actually.  Can you get hit with Lover more than once?)
For only one point more you can take away their vote and gain yourself one, and for two points more you can outright kill them.  Note also that your victim can buy off flaws.  Super-Curse doesn't seem too unreasonable to me.

4 - Infect (Copy one of your flaws onto the target player.)
Why take this over super-curse?  I think super-curse is probably ok as it is, though.

5 - Nerf (Pick a power. That power now costs 1 point to use each time. A power may only be Nerfed once.)
I don't really like this, it's probably a bit weak as it is an even if it weren't it would likely be used pretty brainlessly (there are some obviously mafia-orientated powers that town would always want to hit).

-1 Insidious (You gain 1 extra XP at the start of each day, but cannot spend XP on buying powers, autos, or modifiers.)
I think this might be overpowered.  By day two it will have paid for its own removal (while giving you an advance on your night 1 XP point) and not buying any powers on day one isn't that much of a cost.
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Re: Choose-Your-Own-Masquerade - Dance 3 - TOWN WIN
« Reply #949 on: August 14, 2014, 11:59:34 am »

I like Infect; I think it combos well with Lover. (and in a less-broken manner)  (Or Mole.  That's an interesting thought; probably not worth it, though.)

The issue with Grand Swap is that it screws everyone equally.  Scum can keep track of their swaps to know who has what (in general, since town is unlikely to swap), but if Grand Swap is fired, it's anyone's guess.  If a bunch of Patsies have been made, that makes damn near any action useless; Kill included.

I assume if a Patsy is killed then there's some sort of "Red was killed!  Too bad it was an unimportant nobody." message?

Tempt needs some clarification; is it considered a kill action in terms of daily use (like how kill/convert was limited)?  What if the target declines?

Self Assured may be undercosted, considering it's a no-brainer to combo it with Insidious.


EDIT:  Also, Insidious should probably include "...or buying off flaws other than Insidious."
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HMR stands for Hazardous Materials Requisition, not Horrible Massive Ruination, though I can understand how one could get confused.
God help us if we have to agree on pizza toppings at some point. There will be no survivors.

notquitethere

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Re: Choose-Your-Own-Masquerade - Dance 3 - TOWN WIN
« Reply #950 on: August 14, 2014, 12:54:11 pm »

Leafsnail
I scrapped recycle, it just managed to sneak back into my local list.
Was the removal of autoblock intentional then?  I quite like it as a way to prevent town breaking strategies.
Yeah, that was unintentional. Good spot.

I'll make it mutually exclusive with unable to vote, but Unable To Vote has no chance of killing you if you make a bad choice so I'm not sure it's less severe.
Guilty Conscience also has no chance of killing you if you don't vote (which is the same restriction you'd have under UtV), but you can also vote safely if an obvious mafia member comes up.
I see where you're coming from. How about this as an alternative:

-1 Mandatory Voter (player dies if the day ends and they're not voting anyone.)

I'm still tempted to re-include conversions.
How about if scum could convert only one player in the course of the game or something?  That means scum would still have a way to cast doubt on confirmed townies without allowing super-cults.
Yeah I think I like that as a compromise. If I go with that I'd also allow scum to kill on the same day they convert, so lack of a kill wouldn't necessarily be an indicator.

7 - Tempt (Target is sent an offer: they can join the scum team or they can choose not to. The target can send a single message with this action attempt. This power can never be self targeted.)
It's an interesting idea, but I think it has a severe flaw.  The player is likely to accept if the mafia is doing well (so super-cults could rapidly take over the town) but refuse if the mafia is doing badly (so it doesn't help much in stopping town breaking strategies).
Hmm, yeah I think you might be right. I'll see if there's any other thoughts on this.

4 - Infect (Copy one of your flaws onto the target player.)
Why take this over super-curse?  I think super-curse is probably ok as it is, though.
As a cheaper alternative? Maybe I should make it even cheaper.

5 - Nerf (Pick a power. That power now costs 1 point to use each time. A power may only be Nerfed once.)
I don't really like this, it's probably a bit weak as it is an even if it weren't it would likely be used pretty brainlessly (there are some obviously mafia-orientated powers that town would always want to hit).
Any other suggestions for similar alternative? Giving players more broad countering powers seems like a good idea.

-1 Insidious (You gain 1 extra XP at the start of each day, but cannot spend XP on buying powers, autos, or modifiers.)
I think this might be overpowered.  By day two it will have paid for its own removal (while giving you an advance on your night 1 XP point) and not buying any powers on day one isn't that much of a cost.
Yeah, you might be right. I'll have a ponder.
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4maskwolf

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Re: Choose-Your-Own-Masquerade - Dance 3 - TOWN WIN
« Reply #951 on: August 14, 2014, 12:58:53 pm »

I actually disagree with the complaint about insidious.  If you buy it off at the end of day one, then you effectively gained one point earlier than you otherwise would have, but no extra points overall versus not taking a -1 flaw.

-1 Mandatory Voter (player dies if the day ends and they're not voting anyone.)
No you.

Everyone would take this, since you are considered to be voting even if your vote doesn't count for anything.  This is giving people free points for acting the way they normally do.  And then someone drops a hammer and kills half the town because they hadn't woken up yet.
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