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Author Topic: First Impressions .40.01 AND BEYOND!  (Read 74245 times)

Broseph Stalin

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Re: First Impressions .40.01
« Reply #285 on: July 09, 2014, 05:35:09 pm »

Perhaps sparring? Maybe just being exposed to a hostile creature? Just have a goblin walled in in your dining hall and everyone who sees it gets a little discipline? We'll need to test this. Then find a danger room equivalent.

Training and being scared train discipline. The sight of fresh corpses does it, so does exposure to non hostile non pet animals.

RealFear

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Re: First Impressions .40.01
« Reply #286 on: July 09, 2014, 05:35:59 pm »

"Discipline" is a skill you can give combatants in arena mode that determines how well they take morale checks. I had a fistfight between a grand master in discipline and somebody with no skill and the no-skill guy immediately panics and runs, gaining a bit of experience from the event. I wonder how you can train it in dwarf mode...

Doesn't seem to affect moral as much as i'd like though, as soon as about 5 out of 10 guys in a group die, even grand-master disciplines seem to run.
And if you have a area that has bodies in it from a previous, unrelated battle, absolutely no-one wants to stay in a fight for long.
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Echostatic

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Re: First Impressions .40.01
« Reply #287 on: July 09, 2014, 05:36:19 pm »

"Discipline" is a skill you can give combatants in arena mode that determines how well they take morale checks. I had a fistfight between a grand master in discipline and somebody with no skill and the no-skill guy immediately panics and runs, gaining a bit of experience from the event. I wonder how you can train it in dwarf mode...
Perhaps sparring? Maybe just being exposed to a hostile creature? Just have a goblin walled in in your dining hall and everyone who sees it gets a little discipline? We'll need to test this. Then find a danger room equivalent.

Isn't it obvious? Have a very deep shaft leading to your dining room. Throw captured enemies and excess animals down it. Eventually your dwarves will stop panicking and get used to the sight of exploded bodies.
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Zanzetkuken The Great

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Re: First Impressions .40.01
« Reply #288 on: July 09, 2014, 05:38:57 pm »

Just found out that if you press tab when choosing to reclaim a fortress, it tells you when it was founded and what killed the place off.
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Authority2

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Re: First Impressions .40.01
« Reply #289 on: July 09, 2014, 05:41:12 pm »

"Discipline" is a skill you can give combatants in arena mode that determines how well they take morale checks. I had a fistfight between a grand master in discipline and somebody with no skill and the no-skill guy immediately panics and runs, gaining a bit of experience from the event. I wonder how you can train it in dwarf mode...
Perhaps sparring? Maybe just being exposed to a hostile creature? Just have a goblin walled in in your dining hall and everyone who sees it gets a little discipline? We'll need to test this. Then find a danger room equivalent.
Could try the old strategy of pitting kittens from a splat height onto them.
edit: ninja'd
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Sergarr

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Re: First Impressions .40.01
« Reply #290 on: July 09, 2014, 05:41:18 pm »

All the traps act the same, regardless of the quality, in this case. (plain is the same as - or +).

They all miss, unless I block the path, and the goblin "stands" on the trap.  For example, if I build a wall, they stand on the trap and die, as it hits them.  It seems like when they have a path, it doesn't?

yes, this is all very strange, and not at all like 34.11, with respect to traps.

Finally, when the squad leader died, the 40.01 behavior is even worse than the 34.11 behavior.  Not only does the squad halt and stand there doing nothing like they did in 34.11, two of the goblins are switching places as fast as they can (they swap every 11 ticks), for no apparent reason.  This, as expected, is crushing FPS/performance.
I believe the reason they miss is because in time they activate, the goblins are already off the trap tile. So they're walking past it faster than it can attack them.

You can observe that effect in adventure mod while trying to attack somebody running away from you.
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Splint

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Re: First Impressions .40.01
« Reply #291 on: July 09, 2014, 05:47:28 pm »

"Discipline" is a skill you can give combatants in arena mode that determines how well they take morale checks. I had a fistfight between a grand master in discipline and somebody with no skill and the no-skill guy immediately panics and runs, gaining a bit of experience from the event. I wonder how you can train it in dwarf mode...
Perhaps sparring? Maybe just being exposed to a hostile creature? Just have a goblin walled in in your dining hall and everyone who sees it gets a little discipline? We'll need to test this. Then find a danger room equivalent.
Could try the old strategy of pitting kittens from a splat height onto them.
edit: ninja'd

Discipline is raised by military training in general from what I can tell, which makes sense. It is also raised by expieriencing unpleasant things like corpses, miasma, or (possibly) particularly gruesome kills made by allies/enemies.

Just found out that if you press tab when choosing to reclaim a fortress, it tells you when it was founded and what killed the place off.

Great, now I feel stupid and chances are my curiosity will never be sated.

"Discipline" is a skill you can give combatants in arena mode that determines how well they take morale checks. I had a fistfight between a grand master in discipline and somebody with no skill and the no-skill guy immediately panics and runs, gaining a bit of experience from the event. I wonder how you can train it in dwarf mode...

Doesn't seem to affect morale as much as i'd like though, as soon as about 5 out of 10 guys in a group die, even grand-master disciplines seem to run. And if you have a area that has bodies in it from a previous, unrelated battle, absolutely no-one wants to stay in a fight for long.

If half your squad just died, it doesn't matter how willing you are to fight at the bginning. Seeing that many friendlies die is gonna make morale take a pretty steep nosedive.

As to the leftovers from past fights, it's also understandable. There may be people they knew mixed into that pile of bones and rotting carcasses, and in general the remains of sapients cause extremely negative responses (ranging from just the corpse stinking to being overcome by horror at the mangled corpses and partial skeletons,) in dwarves lacking solid discipline to ignore/cope with it.

vjek

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Re: First Impressions .40.01
« Reply #292 on: July 09, 2014, 05:50:40 pm »

... I believe the reason they miss is because in time they activate, the goblins are already off the trap tile. So they're walking past it faster than it can attack them.

You can observe that effect in adventure mod while trying to attack somebody running away from you.
Makes sense, and lines up with my observations so far.
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wierd

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Re: First Impressions .40.01
« Reply #293 on: July 09, 2014, 06:24:05 pm »

Sounds like you need to manually activate the traps somehow using a high speed repeater. Having the traps fire in a specific pattern, coupled with a suitable length of trapped corridor, should ensure that even very fast moving goblins are able to get mangled properly.
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Kohou

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Re: First Impressions .40.01
« Reply #294 on: July 09, 2014, 06:26:49 pm »

"Discipline" is a skill you can give combatants in arena mode that determines how well they take morale checks. I had a fistfight between a grand master in discipline and somebody with no skill and the no-skill guy immediately panics and runs, gaining a bit of experience from the event. I wonder how you can train it in dwarf mode...
Perhaps sparring? Maybe just being exposed to a hostile creature? Just have a goblin walled in in your dining hall and everyone who sees it gets a little discipline? We'll need to test this. Then find a danger room equivalent.

Isn't it obvious? Have a very deep shaft leading to your dining room. Throw captured enemies and excess animals down it. Eventually your dwarves will stop panicking and get used to the sight of exploded bodies.
So, basically the same as before.  But now with actual mechanical benefit.
I'd suggest using windows.  Less to clean.   Blood will ruin a carpet.
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Nyxalinth

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Re: First Impressions .40.01
« Reply #295 on: July 09, 2014, 07:02:44 pm »

I had someone repeatedly go into spells of horror over the remains of hamsters and other vermin.  Makes me think I ought to put the refuse stockpile at the fort entrance to hopefully develop some discipline after the first few cancellations.

I kept imagining this guy go "By Armok, not the dead roaches! Oh gods the hamsters oh the dwarfmanity!"
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dennislp3

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Re: First Impressions .40.01
« Reply #296 on: July 09, 2014, 07:08:02 pm »

I have a feeling that littering ones fortress with dead bodies to harden the minds of its inhabitants will be a thing...on the flip side I do find this to be a pretty nifty thing...you can in theory make a fortress of hardened people who have seen and suffered much death and are capable and rugged while your royalty would be soft cowards.

so much extra personality and realism to seiges and settlements!
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Sergarr

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Re: First Impressions .40.01
« Reply #297 on: July 09, 2014, 07:13:22 pm »

You can also now make walls of dead people and it will scare people away...
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Mickey Blue

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Re: First Impressions .40.01
« Reply #298 on: July 09, 2014, 07:21:05 pm »

Sadly, out of nowhere, it crashed, and now anytime I play (even with new world genned) it crashes almost immediately. Maybe I'll try deleting and reinstalling (I know this is par for the course for a new release, just a bummer is all).
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etgfrog

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Re: First Impressions .40.01
« Reply #299 on: July 09, 2014, 07:31:04 pm »

This...is really silly now, started a new fortress next to some terrifying mountains, decided to make a massive amount of drinks for trade, 8 or so dark gnomes spawn and make a beeline to it guzzling about a hundred units in 5 minutes, so I draft some dwarves to go after them...they kill one then suddenly all of them are horified and the dark gnomes go back to drinking more.
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