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Author Topic: DF2014 (v0.40.24) Worldgen Cookbook Thread!  (Read 141539 times)

blue sam3

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Re: DF2014 (v0.40.03+) Worldgen Cookbook Thread!
« Reply #45 on: July 23, 2014, 07:45:31 am »

... Do you know which cavern layers I need to thicken to make sure I have a nice tall candy spire, too?
The spires grow from the magma sea to the bottom of the first cavern.
So your options are twofold.  You can make them taller by making the magma sea thicker ("Z Levels above layer 5")
AND/OR
You can make them taller by making the layer above the magma sea taller.  (This may be "Z Levels above layer 4")
The only reason I say may be is because I haven't tested it in 40.x yet.  It may be "Z Levels above layer 4" only with 3 caverns, or regardless of the number of caverns.  More testing required.

If it's still the same as last time I tested it (and my memory hasn't completely failed me), with less than three caverns, all of the "Z levels above layer x" are spawned in the right order, and it's just the caverns themselves that are dropped, starting from the bottom up.
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Thormgrim

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Re: DF2014 (v0.40.04+) Worldgen Cookbook Thread!
« Reply #46 on: July 23, 2014, 01:55:23 pm »

I have a request that I've been dabbling with for a while, but don't really have the time to figure out properly.

I'm looking for a world with lots of little regions.  I really like to have three or more biomes/regions in a given embark.  I especially like it when I get lots of high savagery from different biomes and usually a Joyous Wilds along with some evil biome.
I would especially like to see one with cliffs along the ocean and volcanoes near water.  I like steep cliffs in general.
An embark with a volcano, a river, a joyous wilds and a haunted (or similar) and with several different biomes (grasslands, forests, mountains, etc.) would be a dream.

Here's the hard part, I have this ambition to create many fortresses around the world and would need several good embarks instead of just one.

If you can accomplish this, I will be very grateful.
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vjek

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Re: DF2014 (v0.40.04+) Worldgen Cookbook Thread!
« Reply #47 on: July 23, 2014, 03:11:35 pm »

Personally, I've never seen cliffs on an ocean.  I've seen them near lakes, but not a body of water with waves.  Doesn't mean it can't happen, but I think it's gonna be tough/rare.

The rest, not too tough.  I'll see what I can find today/tomorrow, Thormgrim.

Bki

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Re: DF2014 (v0.40.04+) Worldgen Cookbook Thread!
« Reply #48 on: July 23, 2014, 06:38:07 pm »

So, I would like a game where not only no dwarven civilization remains, but where my starting seven are the last dwarves in the world (Having only the first two migrant waves is fine, too).

Because of that, the embark site should allow the fortress to be self-sufficient. I think I shouldn't receive a dwarven caravan (and if I do, then I wouldn't trade with them because they shouldn't even exist), so having sand would be good. I guess I could import it from the humans, but that would take a long time. Some metal allowing to make armour and weapons. Maybe another for furnitures. Good access to magma (either through a pipe or a volcano) would help. Access to water without having to breach the cavern, too (either river or aquifer. It's funnier if the aquifer can't simply be bypassed, but at the same time it's more annoying to exploit).  Having goblins, elves and humans (in that order of importance) existing in the world would be a good thing too. Bonus point for war.

Let's make a nice list of requirement and bonus...

Requirements :
As few dwarves as possible while still allowing fortress mode. Getting the first two migrant waves is fine, but no more than that.
Sand
Metals for armour and weapons. Steel is ideal, but iron and bronze is fine, too, and copper might be fun :).
Goblins

Bonus :
Easy magma.
Easy water.
Elves and humans.
War with elves or humans.
Clay
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KingKaol

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Re: DF2014 (v0.40.04+) Worldgen Cookbook Thread!
« Reply #49 on: July 24, 2014, 12:52:40 am »

I have a request that I've been dabbling with for a while, but don't really have the time to figure out properly.

I'm looking for a world with lots of little regions.  I really like to have three or more biomes/regions in a given embark.  I especially like it when I get lots of high savagery from different biomes and usually a Joyous Wilds along with some evil biome.
I would especially like to see one with cliffs along the ocean and volcanoes near water.  I like steep cliffs in general.
An embark with a volcano, a river, a joyous wilds and a haunted (or similar) and with several different biomes (grasslands, forests, mountains, etc.) would be a dream.

Here's the hard part, I have this ambition to create many fortresses around the world and would need several good embarks instead of just one.

If you can accomplish this, I will be very grateful.

The limiting factor I believe is 'Maximum Subregions' in the advanced worldgen parameters. I am only experienced with medium worlds (129x129), but the maximum value is 5000 which is what I set it to.

I think the other parameters that you want to look at are X,Y Variance of the various types (Elevation, Rainfall, Temperature, Drainage, Volcanism, Savagery).

The only one I change is Elevation (changed from 401 to 601 both X and Y). This seems to make the regions smaller but much higher than this results in a greater number of initial rejections.

I would be interested in increasing the perimeter of mountain regions (as I'm stubborn and always look for sites on the edge of a mountain biome). Although I have increased the initial/final mountain regions, I tend to get a lot of maps with very 'clumped' mountains (say 6 or 7 peaks in one region) while I would rather have long mountain 'chains' to increase their perimeter/area ratio.
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vjek

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Re: DF2014 (v0.40.04+) Worldgen Cookbook Thread!
« Reply #50 on: July 24, 2014, 07:29:25 am »

...
If you can accomplish this, I will be very grateful.
The worldgen below is close.  This type has a high rejection rate due to not being able to place the initial mountainhome, but if you're patient, you can remove the seeds and find your own that might be better.  I looked through three full worlds that had a surviving Dwarven civ, and this was the best of the three: (note each embark is multi-biome)

Thormgrim

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Re: DF2014 (v0.40.04+) Worldgen Cookbook Thread!
« Reply #51 on: July 24, 2014, 11:51:50 pm »

that is one awesome and seriously bonkers world.
i can't wait to mess around with it.
Thank you!!
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Thormgrim

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Re: DF2014 (v0.40.04+) Worldgen Cookbook Thread!
« Reply #52 on: July 24, 2014, 11:55:08 pm »

what would i likely have to do to get Elves and Humans to appear/survive in this world?
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vjek

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Re: DF2014 (v0.40.04+) Worldgen Cookbook Thread!
« Reply #53 on: July 25, 2014, 12:24:21 am »

what would i likely have to do to get Elves and Humans to appear/survive in this world?
Increase the site cap to 40 or so, that should do it.

Thormgrim

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Re: DF2014 (v0.40.04+) Worldgen Cookbook Thread!
« Reply #54 on: July 25, 2014, 03:30:21 pm »

what would i likely have to do to get Elves and Humans to appear/survive in this world?
Increase the site cap to 40 or so, that should do it.

That got me elves, but no humans.
Maybe there aren't enough of the sort of terrain tiles they need to start?
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vjek

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Re: DF2014 (v0.40.04+) Worldgen Cookbook Thread!
« Reply #55 on: July 25, 2014, 04:13:02 pm »

Yeah, given the high levels of randomness, that doesn't surprise me, but there should be a world with all of them, in all the myriads of possibilities.  It would just take time to find.  In THIS particular world, though, without changing the seeds, humans may not be possible, it's true.

vjek

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Re: DF2014 (v0.40.05+) Worldgen Cookbook Thread!
« Reply #56 on: July 28, 2014, 12:12:58 pm »

So I've run across a significant issue with 40.0x and wanted to ensure people knew what was going on, if they're trying to generate worlds that worked in 34.11 and are having problems.

There's a couple of situations that are occurring so often, they appear to be consistent, and are causing some new behavior.
1) The first NPC dwarven site/embark/mountainhome always falls to a forgotten beast.
2) Hillocks will not form unless the biome has trees and/or above ground crops. (not even in mountains!)
3) Kings/Queens are assigned immediately (or shortly thereafter) when embarking from a "dead" civilization.
4) Goblins are completely taking over some fortresses, leading to another situation where the above #3 occurs.

All of the above situations create a bit of a conundrum.  Why?  Here's why..

If you want to create a world where Dwarves survive, it becomes quite challenging, unless you increase the "Site Cap After Civ Creation" parameter in Advanced Worldgen.  However, this has no effect if the biome isn't human or elf friendly.  So, it's difficult (impossible?) to create worlds with just dwarves and goblins, where one of the above 4 situations isn't present.

If you want hillocks, you create the situation where humans and elves will likely be present, as they will start civs in those biomes if you have "Number of Civilizations" above 2.  Leaving it at 2 forces situation #1 to occur, and you're left embarking from a dead civ, leading to situation #3.

Potential solutions:
-Allow players to adjust the biomes within which Hillocks will form.  As the word "Hillock" or "hillock" does not currently appear in any 40.0x file except Dwarf Fortress.exe, this would have be a Toady-driven change and/or adjusted with DFHack, I suspect.
-Expand the biome range within which Hillocks will form, specifically to include mountains at least. (301+ elevation)  Ideally, it would include desert, wasteland, badlands, swamp and marsh.
-Allow dwarven civs to defend themselves from invasions from FB's. (if they don't already)
-If the above isn't the problem, then limit FB's attracted to the first NPC dwarven civ to (1) one. (this presumes they keep coming until the civ falls, which may not be true, but would explain a lot)
-Allow hillocks to form in biomes not adjacent to the mountainhome(s). Underground travel FTW!

Until something changes, NPC dwarven civs will continue to be wiped out trivially on worlds that have hillock-unfriendly biomes adjacent to the mountainhomes.  This includes (at least) swamp, marsh, wasteland, badlands, desert, taiga, mountain, glacier, tundra, and possibly more.

I'm not sure if all of the above is intentional.  Having hillocks only form on human/elf friendly biomes (and not mountain biomes) seems like a bug to me, but I don't want to presume that's the case.

JoeJoe

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Re: DF2014 (v0.40.05+) Worldgen Cookbook Thread!
« Reply #57 on: July 28, 2014, 01:33:56 pm »

I think dwarven settlements in mountain biomes will be mountainhomes/underground fortresses and hillocks are only supposed to be in hills.
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vjek

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Re: DF2014 (v0.40.05+) Worldgen Cookbook Thread!
« Reply #58 on: July 28, 2014, 02:33:09 pm »

I think dwarven settlements in mountain biomes will be mountainhomes/underground fortresses and hillocks are only supposed to be in hills.
The problem is.. If you have only one dwarven civ, and one dwarven site, you're almost guaranteed that civ & site will be dead after a very short time (<30 Years, in some cases) leading to near instant king/queen promotion on embark. 

A good example is a desert world.  If the entire world is desert except one single solitary mountain region, you will get no additional sites.  Ever.  You won't get additional sites (Hillocks) in the desert, nor in the mountains.  Then a Forgotten Beast will take out the original Civ, move in to that mountainhome, and you're done.  No more dwarves in that world.  Adjust all the parameters you wish, it's not gonna happen.
This example situation, with similar biomes, happens with alarming frequency if you try to generate any kind of "unusual" world, but the important part to remember is, this is entirely different from the behavior in 34.11.  In 34.11, making these "unusual" worlds was easy & fun.

It also means you have to fight with the most demanding noble possible, that loves to punch your other dwarves to death quite regularly, from the word "Go".

As well, given the line in the d_init reads: "You can set the maximum population of your fortress here.  Keep in mind that your population must be at least 80 to get a king and 100 to obtain the current game features." it seems something is not working right, or that line is wrong/out of date.

Aristion

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Re: DF2014 (v0.40.05+) Worldgen Cookbook Thread!
« Reply #59 on: July 28, 2014, 02:40:57 pm »

It is with the succession line addition. If the king/queen dies with no heir to the throne, a random dwarf is chosen to be king which is generally in a player fort and it ignores that line that says you only get a king at that population. It only applies if the king is alive and not in your fort.
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I kept imagining this guy go "By Armok, not the dead roaches! Oh gods the hamsters oh the dwarfmanity!"
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