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[SalmonGod]

Yeah, I wasn't taking different types of elves into account...

[Putnam]

By "awfully hackish" I mean that "would be difficult to do in DFHack and even so would be based on adding bad thoughts which may be undesirable".

[Shadowclaimer]

Really ideas help, even if I don't directly implement an idea it can help me come up with something. I want to flesh the races out more than just being different ethics and such, its just a bit difficult coming up with things. I have plans for an Icecarver's Workshop that makes Pykrete for the Frost Dwarves/Snow Elves for instance, but trying to find something for the Fire Dwarves/Sun Elves (Obsidian Workshop maybe?) is taking some time.

[Rekov]

What if you gave Sun Elves solar power? I'm not sure this works as well for Fire Dwarves, since they would probably need magma related things, but you might be able to make Solar Forges/Kilns/etc. instead of Magma ones, that need to be built on the surface in order to work. This actually works, by the way. It isn't too hard to melt metal with enough mirrors and lenses.

Other popcorn ideas:
-Fire traps: when triggered, they burst into a small pool of burning oil.
-Mirror traps: Archimedes' heat ray. Scorches enemies in a line. (Could work as a siege engine instead of a trap, too.)

[Shadowclaimer]

Fire Traps I definitely love the idea of. While I like the idea of solar stuff, the Sun Elves are pretty barbaric and probably less prone to coming up with something so ingenious. Pitch would be an interesting component to make, and could fill barrels. Possibly Exploding Traps that use a full barrel of pitch to detonate.

[than402]

-Fire traps: when triggered, they burst into a small pool of burning oil.
-Mirror traps: Archimedes' heat ray. Scorches enemies in a line. (Could work as a siege engine instead of a trap, too.)

is it actually possible to make them?

as for the Fire Dwarves:you could make the "Fire" in their name not stand for actual fire,but for their fiery temper:since you are basing them on Slayers,you could make them prone to rage,give them unique and effective melee weapons, and also throwing axes and such but weaker armor,and turn them into a frail but deadly army of berserkers.you could also let them brew combat drugs,which give them useful stuff like NOFEAR,NOPAIN,NOSTUN and stat increases,but leave them dizzy or worse after some time has passed.

or,if you want them to have fire based powers,you could create a special caste called "magma priests" which have a very low POP_RATIO,but are fire immune and have special fire based combat interactions:destructive in combat,but rare and prone to collateral.you could also add a workshop which allows regular dwarves to do these fire based interactions.

also,if you can use the  WEATHER_FALLING_MATERIAL tag to make it rain a particular material(i don't know,i haven't tried it),you can make reaction that cause magma rain for a significant offering like a lot of gold,or your enemies' skulls.

[Shadowclaimer]

-Fire traps: when triggered, they burst into a small pool of burning oil.
-Mirror traps: Archimedes' heat ray. Scorches enemies in a line. (Could work as a siege engine instead of a trap, too.)

is it actually possible to make them?

as for the Fire Dwarves:you could make the "Fire" in their name not stand for actual fire,but for their fiery temper:since you are basing them on Slayers,you could make them prone to rage,give them unique and effective melee weapons, and also throwing axes and such but weaker armor,and turn them into a frail but deadly army of berserkers.you could also let them brew combat drugs,which give them useful stuff like NOFEAR,NOPAIN,NOSTUN and stat increases,but leave them dizzy or worse after some time has passed.

or,if you want them to have fire based powers,you could create a special caste called "magma priests" which have a very low POP_RATIO,but are fire immune and have special fire based combat interactions:destructive in combat,but rare and prone to collateral.you could also add a workshop which allows regular dwarves to do these fire based interactions.

also,if you can use the  WEATHER_FALLING_MATERIAL tag to make it rain a particular material(i don't know,i haven't tried it),you can make reaction that cause magma rain for a significant offering like a lot of gold,or your enemies' skulls.

I'm planning on doing a "weapon tree" for each race, so within a base race type they share the same core weapons but all of them get an extra 6th weapon type that's unique to them. I've got a tab in the spreadsheet for it.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0ApPr023YHYR0dDl4NzNCUF9VMXhYTmNYVW1TQ19oZ0E#gid=9

The Fire Dwarves are basically berserkers, they have the LIKES_FIGHTING tag for starters, I honestly considered NO_FEAR but I'm torn on whether that would be too useful (if it would be a double-edged sword I'd totally do it.) Combat drugs would be an interesting thing, the issue is how to make them activate them instead of just drinking them all the time.

Each race does also have unique statlines that follow a base, so they will learn certain skills faster or slower than other races.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0ApPr023YHYR0dDl4NzNCUF9VMXhYTmNYVW1TQ19oZ0E#gid=18

The Fire Dwarves for instance have a much greater combat line than the rest of their crafting skills (and than their dwarven brethren)

[than402]

well,you could forbid the drugs,or put them in special workshops,but yeah...come to think of it,it does sound a bit complex.

oh,and you shouldn't put NO_FEAR.now that morale actually plays a role in combat,it might be a bit overpowered.

[Shadowclaimer]

well,you could forbid the drugs,or put them in special workshops,but yeah...come to think of it,it does sound a bit complex.

oh,and you shouldn't put NO_FEAR.now that morale actually plays a role in combat,it might be a bit overpowered.

That's what I figured, LIKES_FIGHTING is fine, NO_FEAR however would be way over the line.

[Shadowclaimer]

Working on the unique weapons for the dwarven civs, going to try to get them out today.

Katars are done, they were easy (and will be fun) nothing like angry dwarves who like fighting jabbing enemies with bladed fists.

Examples so far:

Code: [Select]

[ITEM_WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_KATAR] Fire Dwarven Weapon
[NAME:katar:katars]
[SIZE:250]
[SKILL:GRASP_STRIKE]
[TWO_HANDED:37500]
[MINIMUM_SIZE:32500]
[CAN_STONE]
[MATERIAL_SIZE:3]
[ATTACK:EDGE:5:1250:jab:jabs:NO_SUB:1250] Jabbing
[ATTACK_PREPARE_AND_RECOVER:3:3]
[ATTACK:EDGE:1000:600:slash:slashes:NO_SUB:1000] Slashing
[ATTACK_PREPARE_AND_RECOVER:3:3]
[ATTACK:BLUNT:20000:600:slap:slaps:flat:1000] Flat Slapping
[ATTACK_PREPARE_AND_RECOVER:3:3]

[ITEM_WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_PICKHAMMER] Stone Dwarven Weapon
[NAME:pickhammer:pickhammers]
[SIZE:400]
[SKILL:HAMMER]
[TWO_HANDED:37500]
[MINIMUM_SIZE:32500]
[MATERIAL_SIZE:3]
[ATTACK:BLUNT:10:200:bash:bashes:NO_SUB:2000] Bash
[ATTACK_PREPARE_AND_RECOVER:3:3]
[ATTACK:EDGE:20:10000:pierce:pierces:NO_SUB:1250] Pierce
[ATTACK_PREPARE_AND_RECOVER:3:3]

[ITEM_WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_ICEAXE] Frost Dwarven Weapon
[NAME:ice axe:ice axes]
[SIZE:300]
[SKILL:AXE]
[TWO_HANDED:37500]
[MINIMUM_SIZE:32500]
[MATERIAL_SIZE:3]
[ATTACK:EDGE:20:10000:pierce:pierces:NO_SUB:1250] Pierce
[ATTACK_PREPARE_AND_RECOVER:3:3]
[ATTACK:EDGE:50:5000:rend:rends:NO_SUB:1500] Rend
[ATTACK_PREPARE_AND_RECOVER:3:3]

[ITEM_WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_QUARTERSTAFF] Storm Dwarf Weapon
[NAME:quarterstaff:quarterstaves]
[SIZE:400]
[SKILL:SPEAR]
[TWO_HANDED:47500]
[MINIMUM_SIZE:5000]
[MATERIAL_SIZE:3]
[ATTACK:BLUNT:5000:10000:sweep:sweeps:NO_SUB:1500] Sweep
[ATTACK_PREPARE_AND_RECOVER:3:3]
[ATTACK:BLUNT:10000:6000:bash:bashes:shaft:1250] Slap
[ATTACK_PREPARE_AND_RECOVER:3:3]

Fire Dwarves get Katars (Stab, Slash, Flat Slap) that use the Striking skill, Ice Dwarves are getting Ice Axes (Pierce, Rend) that use the Axes skill, Storm Dwarves are getting Quarterstaves (Sweep, Slap) that use the Spears skill, and Stone Dwarves are getting Pickhammers (Bash, Pierce) that use the Hammers skill.

[than402]

i really like the katars.it would be fun to have viable wrestlers in the army.here's some more ideas about the fire dwarves:

That's what I figured, LIKES_FIGHTING is fine, NO_FEAR however would be way over the line.

you can give them some ranks in discipline if you want to make them braver than average.i don't believe it will be game breaking,just their thing.LIKES_FIGHTING really suits them,and so does PRONE_TO_RAGE.

if 're still looking for ideas on how to flesh the races a little bit more,you can play with the nobles' position,their rights and their demands.for example,a Wild Dwarf ruler can't be expected to act like a Stone Dwarf ruler.the former is essentially a tribal chief and therefore need less extravagant quarters,is expected to lead his armies and makes less mandates,while the latter is your typical dwarven noble.

[Shadowclaimer]

At the moment I have nobles laid out in template fashion based on dwarves for all of the races, but I'll definitely be fleshing them out down the line and differentiating them all individually but its going to get really complicated quickly, so I'm saving that.

PRONE_TO_RAGE sounds awesome, didn't know that was a token. I definitely might give them that.

Is it possible to make a custom training dummy? Like an Archery Target for punching?

[than402]

unfortunately,you can't.at least as far as i know

[Shadowclaimer]

unfortunately,you can't.at least as far as i know

That's rather depressing.

I made a post over in suggestions about it, doubt it'll happen but I can hope.

[palu]

You can make a custom workshop, with reactions to train them.