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Poll

How sad are you that a simple issue can bring out the worst in people?

It makes me sad. So very very sad.
- 57 (49.1%)
I think it's great!
- 26 (22.4%)
I'm indifferent.
- 33 (28.4%)

Total Members Voted: 114


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Author Topic: 2014: Equal rights  (Read 43145 times)

Rum

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Re: 2014: Equal rights
« Reply #135 on: July 14, 2014, 01:26:14 am »

Have always loved dwarf fortress for its gender equality and now toady takes another step in a good direction.... squaaad.

brb gonna donate as much of my paycheck as possible without getting Dwarf Cancels work: hunting vermin cancellations...
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WillowLuman

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Re: 2014: Equal rights
« Reply #136 on: July 14, 2014, 01:40:06 am »

I imagine we'll get into cultural perceptions and societal rules once we get to the romance arc. I imagine that will cover everything from classism to homophobia. Right now, though, we're just dealing with the biology, i.e. chance of who having what wiring. 
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Lovechild

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Re: 2014: Equal rights
« Reply #137 on: July 14, 2014, 01:49:58 am »

Here are my calculations. They might be a bit different.

First the game rolls a 100-sided (75+20+5) die for attraction to the same gender. If the result is 1-75 the dwarf is not interested in the same gender, if it's 76-95 the dwarf can get a lover of the same gender, if it's 96-100 the dwarf can get a spouse of the same gender.

Then it rolls another 100-sided die for attraction to the opposite gender, where the ratios are flipped.

This gives nine possible categories for what relationships the dwarf is willing to get into:

1. No homo + no hetero (3.8%)
2. No homo + hetero love, no marriage (15.0%)
3. No homo + hetero marriage (56.0%)
4. Homo love, no marriage + no hetero (1.0%)
5. Homo love, no marriage + hetero love, no marriage (4.0%)
6. Homo love, no marriage + hetero marriage (15.0%)
7. Homo marriage + no hetero (>0.0%)
8. Homo marriage + hetero love, no marriage (1.0%)
9. Homo marriage + hetero marriage (3.8%)

The total orientation ratios become:

3.8% of all dwarves are asexual
1.0% of all dwarves are homosexual
23.8% of all dwarves are bisexual
71.0% of all dwarves are heterosexual

(edited to use the actual numbers)
« Last Edit: July 14, 2014, 02:28:12 am by Lovechild »
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Toady One

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Re: 2014: Equal rights
« Reply #138 on: July 14, 2014, 02:04:45 am »

(75:20:5, 5:20:75.  I knew they should have added up to 100 -- those are the ones from the code, just the fotf text was typo'd.)
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DG

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Re: 2014: Equal rights
« Reply #139 on: July 14, 2014, 04:03:54 am »

Your migrant dwarves have more chance of being a vampire than being homosexual.
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Gukag

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Re: 2014: Equal rights
« Reply #140 on: July 14, 2014, 04:17:48 am »

I'm for anything that means less dwarven babysplosions in 200 pop forts. Gay dwarfs, for all your FPS needs.
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klefenz

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Re: 2014: Equal rights
« Reply #141 on: July 14, 2014, 05:57:17 am »

It would be cool if the same sex couples adopted the orphan babies so they don die of thirst. You know, just feed them some purring maggot milk.

Rokh

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Re: 2014: Equal rights
« Reply #142 on: July 14, 2014, 07:14:12 am »

So it was all intended, after all.

But there's something I don't understand. I thought dwarves became lovers before marrying. What would happen if you made, say, male dwarves uninterested in being in affairs with female dwarves but interested in marrying them? Would that be posible?
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Loud Whispers

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Re: 2014: Equal rights
« Reply #143 on: July 14, 2014, 07:15:59 am »

There isn't a single indication that this is a 50% thing, so I think you're exaggerating a bit.
We're doing science on new ground Putnam, we need to cover every possibility.

My testing has shown that the following makes the majority of elves (9 out of 11, to be exact) gay:
[ORIENTATION:MALE:1:1:9]
[ORIENTATION:FEMALE:9:1:1]
If I were to guess, the ORIENTATION token means the following:
ORIENTATION:CASTE:female_chance:bisexual_chance:male_chance
So you can make your dwarves all straight easily by simply adding the following tokens to your dwarves:
[ORIENTATION:MALE:1:0:0]
[ORIENTATION:FEMALE:0:0:1]
So don't y'all worry about your eugenics.
I'm going to add these tags and gen some worlds and see if I can force gay Dwarves into straight marriages and straight Dwarves into gay marriages to see if the tags work on an absolute basis.

Gukag

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Re: 2014: Equal rights
« Reply #144 on: July 14, 2014, 07:29:39 am »

It's all abstracted anyways, everything in the game just reproduces through spores. I think "realistic" sex has as much chances of being implemented as sewers and refuse, i.e close to none, thank Armork. The dwarf tries to impale Urist from behind with a spear, but misses!
Although tbh sewers have the potential for some dwarf engineering. You could start with something as simple as a latrine pit then eventually have to undergo big infrastructure changes for sewers once there's too many dwarves. Throw in a big disease, miasma and vermin update for extra FUN.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2014, 07:32:34 am by Gukag »
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Kerbalrocketry

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Re: 2014: Equal rights
« Reply #145 on: July 14, 2014, 08:11:05 am »

Either an unintended feature or a feature.
Either way it's pretty awesome as it should reduce the number of bloody children.
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Urist McVoyager

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Re: 2014: Equal rights
« Reply #146 on: July 14, 2014, 08:17:37 am »

Do the two tags necessarily have to be flipped? Would it be possible, without breaking the game, to make your dwarves primarily bi-sexual so that each one could go either way? Not that it matters as much with the current monogamous set-up, but I'm sure when the Romance arc comes up that we'll be seeing that replaced with something more complex.
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Loud Whispers

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Re: 2014: Equal rights
« Reply #147 on: July 14, 2014, 09:21:06 am »

Either an unintended feature or a feature.
If there's a tag for it, it's a feature.

Lielac

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Re: 2014: Equal rights
« Reply #148 on: July 14, 2014, 09:56:07 am »

Do the two tags necessarily have to be flipped? Would it be possible, without breaking the game, to make your dwarves primarily bi-sexual so that each one could go either way? Not that it matters as much with the current monogamous set-up, but I'm sure when the Romance arc comes up that we'll be seeing that replaced with something more complex.

They're bi already, just with a preference towards the opposite sex, but I take your meaning. No, the tag numbers don't need to be inverted. You could have the numbers be 5:20:75 for attraction to men and women in both genders, and that wouldn't break anything. Could have it be 0:100:100, too, if you want... well. I think that needs sciencing, to see just what the numbers do in-game... my shaky hypothesis is that it miiiight cause dwarves to do love at first sight.
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Lielac likes adamantine, magnetite, marble, the color olive green, battle axes, cats for their aloofness, dragons for their terrible majesty, women for their beauty, and the Oxford comma for its disambiguating properties. When possible, she prefers to consume pear cider and nectarines. She absolutely detests kobolds.

Loud Whispers

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Re: 2014: Equal rights
« Reply #149 on: July 14, 2014, 09:59:21 am »

Experiment setup:
[ORIENTATION:MALE:1:0:0]
[ORIENTATION:FEMALE:0:0:1]
Added to the Dwarf raws, Dwarves packed into mandatory socializing chambers as such:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
With both Dwarves given a bed each, locked in the socializing chamber for over a year and with hunger and thirst disabled.

Fort defence: Over 50 puppies (many of whom grew up to dogs, and subsequently war dogs very quickly. Advise replacing dogs with puppies in all future embarks).
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

First set:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Second set:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Third set:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Control [just to check that the mandatory socializing warrens will actually result in lovers in the first place]:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I believe the 'values family greatly' trait could be the phenotype for Dwarven sexuality as the hypothesis is is that the above tags should make all Dwarves as straight as 180* lines and all Dwarves in the starting 7 and subsequent migrant waves either 'values family greatly' or 'dreams of raising a family.' Sakzul is 'prone to lust' and Ingiz 'easily falls in love,' I reckon they are the best bet for testing this theory with Twilight-dystopian tier fanfic science.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Uvash gets to stay outside, make beds, train war dogs and assign migrants to their socializing warrens because he cares the least about forming relationships and is not very useful otherwise as a guinea pig.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2014, 10:35:51 am by Loud Whispers »
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