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Author Topic: Future of the Fortress  (Read 1011862 times)

Dirst

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2370 on: August 24, 2015, 09:27:29 am »

I think conversations are related to time schemes in fortress mode: you see everything speeded up, so it would only be relevant to have your information slowed down enough to have individual sentences if you were pausing or examining something in slow motion.

Pausing = the thought/quotes on personality page, and slow motion = combat reports. Where they do randomly talk. To their enemies.

The latter is pretty limited, to be fair. The only times they don't do generic fear statements is when they choose to say something totally inappropriate. It's actually pretty rude to tell someone that you have no hope after getting sunburn if you've just hammered their spinal column through their guts.
I get why there's no routine conversation in fortress mode (it's not like the entity has [TRANSLATION:OLD_ENTISH]), but it'd be nice to see topics of conversation pop up on the Thoughts and Preferences screen (Urist felt pride discussing her battle with a cave dragon.).  I think think the bardic tales in the upcoming release will go a long way in that regard, but the reality is there are some people who really do just like to hear themselves talk.
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NJW2000

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2371 on: August 24, 2015, 09:49:30 am »

Yeah, actually, more specific than "enjoyed talking with a friend" would be great, wonder when that's coming up!

I heard some guy (on this thread?) talk about how he managed to merge adventure interface onto his fort so he could hear his dwarves talking, I think.
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Nopenope

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2372 on: August 24, 2015, 04:45:47 pm »

Will scholars be attracted to your fortress based on what literature you have? As in, if you have a lot of books related to medicine will you get visitors with medical skills looking to study there? Perhaps we'd finally have a reliable way to train doctors.

Knowledge has no impact on skills, so even if your scholars know all about medicine they won't be any better at bone-setting or anything else used in fort mode.

This may sound like a stupid question but what's the point of knowledge then? Gameplay-wise, I mean.
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Putnam

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2373 on: August 24, 2015, 05:31:02 pm »

You can see conversation in dwarf mode by turning on conversations in dwarf mode in the announcements file.

Will scholars be attracted to your fortress based on what literature you have? As in, if you have a lot of books related to medicine will you get visitors with medical skills looking to study there? Perhaps we'd finally have a reliable way to train doctors.

Knowledge has no impact on skills, so even if your scholars know all about medicine they won't be any better at bone-setting or anything else used in fort mode.

This may sound like a stupid question but what's the point of knowledge then? Gameplay-wise, I mean.

It will matter later. Actually making them matter in the current release would probably make it take a few more months.

Robsoie

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2374 on: August 24, 2015, 05:34:03 pm »

This may sound like a stupid question but what's the point of knowledge then? Gameplay-wise, I mean.
If i have no idea if Toady has knowledge being something important or just some flavor text gimmick, but i would imagine an application in DF context of knowledge and lack of it would be that a character without having had the knowledge of a skill teached to him would then acquire/train such skill very slowly.

So in the medecine example , a bone setting dwarf would get his skill improve by using it (much) more slowly than the bone setting dwarf that would have had a medecine scholar teaching him all there is to know about bone setting.


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Shonai_Dweller

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2375 on: August 25, 2015, 02:17:48 am »

Originally it was 'no practical use' but that's since changed to 'almost no practical use, but you can alter the ethics of a civilization'. So it'll be interesting to see if it's come further than expected.

Although I suspect studying under a medical scholar will probably just produce more medical scholars (i.e book writers) for now. Hopefully we'll know more at the end of the month.
« Last Edit: August 25, 2015, 02:19:33 am by Shonai_Dweller »
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Shonai_Dweller

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2376 on: August 25, 2015, 02:30:46 am »

Will scholars be attracted to your fortress based on what literature you have? As in, if you have a lot of books related to medicine will you get visitors with medical skills looking to study there? Perhaps we'd finally have a reliable way to train doctors.

Knowledge has no impact on skills, so even if your scholars know all about medicine they won't be any better at bone-setting or anything else used in fort mode.

This may sound like a stupid question but what's the point of knowledge then? Gameplay-wise, I mean.
Don't forget that the upcoming release is only part 1 of the whole taverns n' knowledge arc. The rest (including practical application, apprenticeships, games and recipes and no doubt all sorts of other stuff) is all on the way but Toady doesn't want another multiple year wait for the next release.
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Dirst

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2377 on: August 25, 2015, 05:15:18 am »

Don't forget that the upcoming release is only part 1 of the whole taverns n' knowledge arc. The rest (including practical application, apprenticeships, games and recipes and no doubt all sorts of other stuff) is all on the way but Toady doesn't want another multiple year wait for the next release.
I'm not sure those features would make me feel better about DF healthcare.

"Alrighty patients, I'm back from the tavern.  Who to see next? Eenie Meenie Minie Moe..."
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Devin

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2378 on: August 26, 2015, 02:46:13 am »

For those of us who miss DF Talk and would like to hear from you about all the recent development in new episodes, can we volunteer to help somehow?  We could collect a list of good questions for you to discuss in an episode and do the audio editing from the raw take to make it sound nice, for instance.  That would probably reduce the work involved for you to pretty much just the time you were talking on mic.
« Last Edit: August 26, 2015, 07:54:05 am by Devin »
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NJW2000

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2379 on: August 26, 2015, 03:44:38 am »

Limegreen it, Devin, that sounds great!
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Dirst

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2380 on: August 26, 2015, 09:56:01 am »

Quote from: Toady One
It feels like we're entering a period of posts along these lines where there will sometimes be interesting logs like the last log, and often logs that are just lists of now-unbroken known features, he he he. The collection of problems is growing smaller, anyway!
Dirst cancels doing anything useful at work: pressing F5 continuously

Okay, maybe not, but this is definitely welcome news.
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Malrone

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2381 on: August 26, 2015, 02:11:32 pm »

I've long been excited for the TAVERNS AND SKALDS update, and as its scope has expanded, so has my hype. But building off of the new and now established emotions system, and heading forward into the era of scholarship, philosophy, and sociology, I find myself struck something. A missing chunk of psyche.

So, to the Toady One, I ask a Big question and a Small question.

Big:
Right now, dwarves are traumatized by the idea of dead goblins, even after centuries of violence between these peoples. Will the emotions system draw more on family and politics in the future to correct for this, or perhaps will ethics draw more granular distinctions between species and not just all sentience? The current method of managing this reaction, of systematically traumatizing dwarves until their personality is nothing but the emotional equivalent of scar tissue, is somewhat distressing.

Small:
As libraries, books, scholars, and the various forms of "hard" knowledge are added to the game, will the player be able to influence what ideas are generated or spread? Could propaganda be manufactured and cultural education eventually be implemented?
« Last Edit: August 26, 2015, 08:56:10 pm by Malrone »
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Inarius

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2382 on: August 26, 2015, 04:00:33 pm »

@Malrone :

you should green (edit --> lime green) your text if you want Toady to see them !
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Malrone

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2383 on: August 26, 2015, 09:05:16 pm »

Thanks for the heads up. I was wondering what the purpose behind that was.

The difference between player ethics and dwarven ethics (as defined by the game) is something I've always found to be rather striking. We've built mermaid farms, corpse disposal chutes to recycle bodies into workable bone, elaborate eugenics and genocide machines, concocted schemes to raise our children into ideal soldiers straight from the womb, and generally been capable of a detached amoral calculative mindset. All the while, the dwarves themselves approach something of a Kantian ideal, and apply their civilization's ethics to all creatures capable of higher thought.
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FearfulJesuit

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2384 on: August 27, 2015, 03:15:57 pm »

You've hinted before that the current dev cycle may lay the groundwork for a future reworking of technology during gameplay- technologies that you will or won't have access to depending on research, with the ability to advance your fortress's knowledge by investing in research. If so, do you also envision- whether in fort mode or simply in worldgen- situations where a civilization would lose access to a technology they once had?
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