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Author Topic: Future of the Fortress  (Read 1092774 times)

reality.auditor

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2700 on: October 27, 2015, 02:39:24 pm »

so how big could embarks get? The players on supercomputers could actually do something to scale now?
Nope, supercomputers rely on many processors working in parallel. Since DF is one-threaded, it wouldn't preform better than on your home computer.
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malvado

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2701 on: October 27, 2015, 04:23:55 pm »

Been looking through the forums and can't say I've found any good answer to a question I have, so here it goes :

1 : I've found DF to be an awesome game and I really love to see what other players are able to do as well , but as the time goes by I'd love to be able to add other players fortress to the world I'm currently playing or perhaps have some option that they can be added to a new world that you create.

Has Toady ever thought about implementing some sort of function so that some of your fortresses can be saved and used in new worlds you create? Likewise an Import function where you could add several fortresses to a new map ( or if it was possible to an existing map somehow ) you create or get from other players?

I could perfectly live with restrictions to what was imported (such as only the fortress empty of dwarves and anything they have made ).

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Shonai_Dweller

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2702 on: October 27, 2015, 05:07:27 pm »

Been looking through the forums and can't say I've found any good answer to a question I have, so here it goes :

1 : I've found DF to be an awesome game and I really love to see what other players are able to do as well , but as the time goes by I'd love to be able to add other players fortress to the world I'm currently playing or perhaps have some option that they can be added to a new world that you create.

Has Toady ever thought about implementing some sort of function so that some of your fortresses can be saved and used in new worlds you create? Likewise an Import function where you could add several fortresses to a new map ( or if it was possible to an existing map somehow ) you create or get from other players?

I could perfectly live with restrictions to what was imported (such as only the fortress empty of dwarves and anything they have made ).
So, assuming the same geographic conditions, your world could be host to an exact replica of Doomforests which Dwarf families could visit at weekends? Hmm.
Can't this be done with DFhack at the moment, export a map, import into quickfort, or something?
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Mr S

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2703 on: October 27, 2015, 05:11:25 pm »

While it's not an in-game feature, it is, technically, possible to recreate a fort without inhabitants through some creative abuse of the features of DFHack. There are tools in DFH that modify tiles, so that a fortress' form could be laid out albeit restricted to current map zone layer stones. And certain item generating magic could be used to place objects. I'm not entirely sure about workshops, activity zones, et al. And last I've been aware, generating units out of thin air has... mixed results. Now, through all of this, feats of coding strength, CSV files, etc you could pull the pieces together in a semi coherent way.


As to Toady's intent, something like this hasn't been discussed in any Word of Toad I'm aware of.  Ergo, this question may be better suited to the suggestions threads.

Bottom line, in the current, or near future, state of play, if you'd like to roam around other players' current, failed or retired fortresses, I'd suggest getting involved in one of the delightful succession games dancing about the forums. It's FUN!!
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TheBiggerFish

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2704 on: October 27, 2015, 05:15:17 pm »

PTW.
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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2705 on: October 27, 2015, 05:35:16 pm »

Are there any changes to the tileset in the new version, or can we just plug in our favourite (basic tileset) from day one?

Updates in the past have introduced new uses for existing characters in the default character tileset (e.g. minecarts, stepladders, trees and their roots, etc), but there is no precedent for the default character tileset to ever change. You should be able to switch to the character tileset of your choice immediately in the init.txt.

The only case where that may become an issue is when a custom character tileset was using a formerly unused character for something that is now being used for something new. That would be on you or the creator of the character tileset in question to correct.

Even creature tilesets work immediately barring sets that rely on raw changes. Creatures/professions are sometimes added (e.g. the upcoming tavern and performance jobs), change (e.g. the skeleton and zombie tokens changed to the animated token in 34.01) or removed entirely (e.g. arsenal dwarf, dungeon master, philosopher, etc).

The elements that are present in the creature tileset that are not present in the new update and vice versa are ignored gracefully and the the creature tilesets only need to be updated if you want to take advantage of the new things.

Been looking through the forums and can't say I've found any good answer to a question I have, so here it goes :

1 : I've found DF to be an awesome game and I really love to see what other players are able to do as well , but as the time goes by I'd love to be able to add other players fortress to the world I'm currently playing or perhaps have some option that they can be added to a new world that you create.

Has Toady ever thought about implementing some sort of function so that some of your fortresses can be saved and used in new worlds you create? Likewise an Import function where you could add several fortresses to a new map ( or if it was possible to an existing map somehow ) you create or get from other players?

I could perfectly live with restrictions to what was imported (such as only the fortress empty of dwarves and anything they have made ).




Threetoe:   I know that you don't have plans for a multiplayer option any time soon, do you at least have plans for shared worlds with trade between players?
Toady:   So, we've seen these ideas and things like this in the suggestion board and so on, so that you might be able to export a file that has a trade caravan that you sent off the side of the map or an army that you've marched off the side of your map and then you save it in the file that might be, you know, lightly encrypted in some way and you could send it off to your friend. And then your friend could load it in their fort - it might not even know if it would be an army or a trade caravan or something and then they get that marching on the map. You could kinda send those back and forth. It's a fun idea, it's not really a high priority idea and then there's difficulties with the raws. You'd have to make sure they had the same kind of raw files that you do exactly or the whole thing would break down. And even things like world history and so on can get in the way if you're not in the same world then references that you send off the map on like the artwork on an item for instance up would no longer be legal so there'd be all kinds of little bugs and things to work out and all kinds of the particulars to iron out. So it just hasn't been a high priority... I think it's a cool idea to have but it's not something that's gonna happen anytime soon.



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JesterHell696

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2706 on: October 27, 2015, 10:03:24 pm »

I thought of a few questions since your reply last time, they are.


1. I've noticed that in 40.24 all my retired adventurers are asexual, do we get to choose our adventurers sexuality?

2. Does the ability to choose your adventures personality open the possibility to choose your adventurers preferences or deity and worship level in the near future?

3. What skills have been added to adventure mode character creation and adventure mode in general?

4. With the addition of writing things in adventure mode what if any "support" crafting is available, for instance can the player make parchment to write on or is writing "paper" only available from world gen sources?

5.You mentioned writing a (bad) essay, does this mean that there are negative quality levels for music, dancing and writing or just that it was bad by comparison? if there are negative quality level what are they called?

6. You mentioned player character having feelings in adventure mode what sort of feelings can an adventurer experience and what event or action can effect an adventurers feelings?
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"The long-term goal is to create a fantasy world simulator in which it is possible to take part in a rich history, occupying a variety of roles through the course of several games." Bay 12 DF development page

"My stance is that Dwarf Fortress is first and foremost a simulation and that balance is a secondary objective that is always secondary to it being a simulation while at the same time cannot be ignored completely." -Neonivek

MrWiggles

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2707 on: October 27, 2015, 11:02:08 pm »



1. I've noticed that in 40.24 all my retired adventurers are asexual, do we get to choose our adventurers sexuality?
How have you notice this? To my understanding retired Adventures are nearly inert things once they've retired and very nearly stop doing things in the world on their own, and stay where they're retired. ToadyOne has talked about starting families, and then playing as your progeny. So eventually paramours going to be a thing for PCs in adventure mode.
 
Quote
2. Does the ability to choose your adventures personality open the possibility to choose your adventurers preferences or deity and worship level in the near future?
Thats been talked about to in the Dwarf Talks.  And maybe? There been talks about just playing a selection of folks that exist in the world previously, and over making character exist out of whole cloth.


Quote
4. With the addition of writing things in adventure mode what if any "support" crafting is available, for instance can the player make parchment to write on or is writing "paper" only available from world gen sources?
Like with almost all questions like this, the answer is. Eventually. The paper has to come from some sorta economic chain, and the overall goal is to have player be part of any of those arbitrary points in the economic chain. So you could probably make paper and vellum eventually.

Quote
5.You mentioned writing a (bad) essay, does this mean that there are negative quality levels for music, dancing and writing or just that it was bad by comparison? if there are negative quality level what are they called?
Yes. You start out as low in the associated skills and ability to perform those acts, you preform badly.

Quote
6. You mentioned player character having feelings in adventure mode what sort of feelings can an adventurer experience and what event or action can effect an adventurers feelings?
This has been talked about before in in Dorf Talks podcast. And mostly this is is an issue of the computer understanding your intent, and player agency and their ability to role play out how they're playing their character. And computers suck at reading intent. It doesn't really have a means to gracefully learn how you should feel about being stuck in the cold, or slaying members of your own kind or thieves.
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Putnam

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2708 on: October 27, 2015, 11:04:15 pm »



1. I've noticed that in 40.24 all my retired adventurers are asexual, do we get to choose our adventurers sexuality?
How have you notice this? To my understanding retired Adventures are nearly inert things once they've retired and very nearly stop doing things in the world on their own, and stay where they're retired. ToadyOne has talked about starting families, and then playing as your progeny. So eventually paramours going to be a thing for PCs in adventure mode.

DFHack; unfortunately, the script I wrote doesn't really distinguish between "asexual" and "adventurer", which seems to be its own state (the first flag in the orientation flags is set to true for adventurers and adventurers only; none of the other flags are set).

I'd say that adventurers aren't so much asexual as indeterminate; they are controlled by you, after all. Maybe when adventure romance comes in their orientation will be determined by either your choice or your actions.

JesterHell696

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2709 on: October 28, 2015, 03:52:46 am »

How have you notice this? To my understanding retired Adventures are nearly inert things once they've retired and very nearly stop doing things in the world on their own, and stay where they're retired. ToadyOne has talked about starting families, and then playing as your progeny. So eventually paramours going to be a thing for PCs in adventure mode.

I had a short genned world (45 years) and retired 20 Demi-god adventurers to receive as migrants and they've all shown up as asexual in dwarf therapist and DFhack so I figured that the adventurers sexuality was left blank by default resulting in only asexual adventures and given that he's allowing us to choose personality facets I was wondering if sexual orientation counted or not.

Thats been talked about to in the Dwarf Talks.  And maybe? There been talks about just playing a selection of folks that exist in the world previously, and over making character exist out of whole cloth.

Almost everything has been talked about at one point or another like I know he's talked about playing as historical figures before, my question was about the near future because Toady said we could choose our personality facets now and this is sort of an expansion of that.

Like with almost all questions like this, the answer is. Eventually. The paper has to come from some sorta economic chain, and the overall goal is to have player be part of any of those arbitrary points in the economic chain. So you could probably make paper and vellum eventually.

I was not asking about the whole chain of production but simple parchment which is made from animal hide (this is why paper was in quotation marks) which we can "half" make now with butchering, I was basically wondering if I could write the story of my defeated foes on their own flayed skin.

Yes. You start out as low in the associated skills and ability to perform those acts, you preform badly.


So what are the negative quality levels for these actions called? shoddy? poor? horrible? and where do they fit in comparison to the preexisting quality levels, shoddy>normal>well-crafted ect.

This has been talked about before in in Dorf Talks podcast. And mostly this is is an issue of the computer understanding your intent, and player agency and their ability to role play out how they're playing their character. And computers suck at reading intent. It doesn't really have a means to gracefully learn how you should feel about being stuck in the cold, or slaying members of your own kind or thieves.

I just found out about bay12 twitter and this post caught my attention

Quote
Bay 12 Games ‏@Bay12Games Sep 24

You can finally figure out why your adventurer is crying with the "Express your emotions" option.

So what can my adventurer feel and what will make him feel it?
« Last Edit: October 28, 2015, 03:59:09 am by JesterHell696 »
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"My stance is that Dwarf Fortress is first and foremost a simulation and that balance is a secondary objective that is always secondary to it being a simulation while at the same time cannot be ignored completely." -Neonivek

JesterHell696

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2710 on: October 28, 2015, 04:03:12 am »

DFHack; unfortunately, the script I wrote doesn't really distinguish between "asexual" and "adventurer", which seems to be its own state (the first flag in the orientation flags is set to true for adventurers and adventurers only; none of the other flags are set).

I'd say that adventurers aren't so much asexual as indeterminate; they are controlled by you, after all. Maybe when adventure romance comes in their orientation will be determined by either your choice or your actions.

I figured that the game just left them blank by default which would make them asexual by default right?


Edit: I probably should have edited this onto my last post, my bad.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2015, 04:04:49 am by JesterHell696 »
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"My stance is that Dwarf Fortress is first and foremost a simulation and that balance is a secondary objective that is always secondary to it being a simulation while at the same time cannot be ignored completely." -Neonivek

Pidgeot

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2711 on: October 28, 2015, 05:26:39 am »

In the hope that I can do a bit of early prep work for PyLNP:

Have you decided how you will distribute the 64-bit builds (once they're ready)? Will it be a single ZIP per OS, containing both 32 and 64-bit executables, or one ZIP for OS/bitness combination?

I'm guessing it would be two separate zips. That would help ease confusion among most players, and it's pretty much the "standard" on how software is handed out when it has a 32 and 64 bits versions.

That's my guess too (that's how I handle PyLNP on Linux, after all), but the alternative is not unheard of, especially with games.

Of course, mostgames have assets which are many times larger than the binaries...

MrWiggles

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2712 on: October 28, 2015, 05:27:51 am »


Thats been talked about to in the Dwarf Talks.  And maybe? There been talks about just playing a selection of folks that exist in the world previously, and over making character exist out of whole cloth.

Almost everything has been talked about at one point or another like I know he's talked about playing as historical figures before, my question was about the near future because Toady said we could choose our personality facets now and this is sort of an expansion of that.
Well, as with the last several cycles, the focus of the next release cycled changed. Right now, its suppose to still be focusing on Taverns, which may lead to getting the economy to interact with fort mode. But who knows. Maybe we'll get the adventure mode starting packages, that's been talked about.

Quote
Like with almost all questions like this, the answer is. Eventually. The paper has to come from some sorta economic chain, and the overall goal is to have player be part of any of those arbitrary points in the economic chain. So you could probably make paper and vellum eventually.

I was not asking about the whole chain of production but simple parchment which is made from animal hide (this is why paper was in quotation marks) which we can "half" make now with butchering, I was basically wondering if I could write the story of my defeated foes on their own flayed skin.
No indication about paper in for adventure mode, and paper is abstracted (for now) in Fort mode. So no reason to believe that paper has been changed.

Quote
This has been talked about before in in Dorf Talks podcast. And mostly this is is an issue of the computer understanding your intent, and player agency and their ability to role play out how they're playing their character. And computers suck at reading intent. It doesn't really have a means to gracefully learn how you should feel about being stuck in the cold, or slaying members of your own kind or thieves.

I just found out about bay12 twitter and this post caught my attention

Quote
Bay 12 Games ‏@Bay12Games Sep 24

You can finally figure out why your adventurer is crying with the "Express your emotions" option.

So what can my adventurer feel and what will make him feel it?
Oh that. The emotional engine that drives all the creatures isn't turned off when you're controlling an adventure. Its just been obscured, but its possible now to gleam what you're character if feeling. They have the same range of emotions as any other creature with the same cause and effect for them. But due to the typical action players take, your character is generally sobbing.

Quote
Thats been talked about to in the Dwarf Talks.  And maybe? There been talks about just playing a selection of folks that exist in the world previously, and over making character exist out of whole cloth.

Almost everything has been talked about at one point or another like I know he's talked about playing as historical figures before, my question was about the near future because Toady said we could choose our personality facets now and this is sort of an expansion of that.
Where? Personalty facets have been brought up twice in the logs, and I checked the twitter until they announced the release of the Paetron.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2015, 05:48:23 am by MrWiggles »
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JesterHell696

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2713 on: October 28, 2015, 08:24:35 am »

Well, as with the last several cycles, the focus of the next release cycled changed. Right now, its suppose to still be focusing on Taverns, which may lead to getting the economy to interact with fort mode. But who knows. Maybe we'll get the adventure mode starting packages, that's been talked about.

This is basically why I asked, its a sort of "is this in and not mentioned or is it on the table for for addition after this release during bug fixing" kind of deal, there's just noway of really knowing where DF's development will head next if you don't ask.

No indication about paper in for adventure mode, and paper is abstracted (for now) in Fort mode. So no reason to believe that paper has been changed.

Well Toady did post about writing a (bad) essay about his character leaving his home town for adventure and leaving it in the library on 10/17/15 so with writing in adventure mode I figured I'd ask about whether my only option for writing supplies would be from world gen library's or if I could make parchment from my enemies skin, ink from their blood and a quill from their bones...   I didn't like my chances but I hadn't read anything about it either so thought I'd ask.

Oh that. The emotional engine that drives all the creatures isn't turned off when you're controlling an adventure. Its just been obscured, but its possible now to gleam what you're character if feeling. They have the same range of emotions as any other creature with the same cause and effect for them. But due to the typical action players take, your character is generally sobbing.

Yeah I get that about adventure modes handling of the previous emotion system but he's also said something about how he's change the emotions effects to include bonus's for dwarves that are happy or "well taken care of" in fortress mode and if that effects adventure mode what things does it work off of?

I'll see if I can find a quote.


Edit:
Quote from: Manzeenan
Will better musicians/instrument quality reduce breaks or "needs"?

The quality can make people happier, certainly, but I'm not sure they should impact overall length of free time a dwarf wants.  There's a positive aspect to needs now that improves skill rolls and so on, so even if the time spent is the same, there's still a benefit to doing a proper job.


Where? Personalty facets have been brought up twice in the logs, and I checked the twitter until they announced the release of the Paetron.

Are you asking where did he say you can choose personality? because if so it here.

Quote from: JesterHell696
Toady I remember you saying something about the player affecting adventure mode personality's, can you choose both personality facets and beliefs and does it work like attribute distributions with points that you spend to increase or lower your value or do you just select a value you want?

Edit:with the addition of bards and traveling musicians will there be followers who's motivation is not death and glory?

You can either randomize your personality and values according to your creature type and culture (just tapping 'r' until you get a paragraph/needs you like), or you can go in and set your values/personality facet by facet manually (in a gigantic slider list).  Your personality in the latter case is still restricted by creature type (so you can't make a very altruistic goblin), but you can set as many values outside of your culture as you want (instead of the standard 3 or so).  It isn't based on a point system, since one personality isn't supposed to be better than another (though there will always be min-maxy settings that you can use to make your character have fewer needs, etc.).

Yeah, you can have your performance troupe that just wants to perform, with no wanna-die checks at all.

So I figured if this is in now I should ask if we could see preferences/sexuality/deity worship level added as a player choice in the after release bug fixing releases (near future) because it not that far from what already in game for this release.

Actually reading this over he mentioned min-max setting in personality facets effecting needs at the bottom and that might be apart of the system I was talking about with character being happy getting bonus's and the adventurer expressing themselves.

« Last Edit: October 28, 2015, 09:27:02 pm by JesterHell696 »
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LordBaal

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2714 on: October 28, 2015, 08:28:57 am »

I was basically wondering if I could write the story of my defeated foes on their own flayed skin.


I know we all should be used to this kind of thing here.... but you upped the game somehow.

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