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Author Topic: Future of the Fortress  (Read 1659902 times)

thvaz

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #30 on: July 14, 2014, 03:50:29 am »

There seems to be an overabundance of wood even in savannas and deserts with cacti.  Should this be balanced, in your opinion, or is it intended to make wood an easier accessed resource? As of now, it doesn't go with the elven diplomat dialogue, since part of the challenge of a tree fell quota is not getting a hundred elven bowmen at your doorstep, and the new trees kind of nullify that.

I could still see that happening if someone made an above ground fort out of wood. Personally I like the larger quantities. It's more realistic and it's nice to see something that makes the game easier instead of harder for a change.

I would like to see a pre-processing of the wood though.  I don't like how they just "explode".

Toady, there is any time frame to resume work on the night creatures? Vampires and Werecreatures aren't working well in Adventurer mode, and I remember you wanted to include some more.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2014, 03:54:43 am by thvaz »
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therahedwig

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #31 on: July 14, 2014, 05:30:25 am »

Are conversation system improvements on the short-term todo list? (could really use some sort of filtering/sorting options) I would apply this same question to the Log system as well, it can start to contain A LOT of stuff. Would be nice to be able to flag items or selectively suppress certain items, etc.

You can already filter the dialogue list: each question has a couple of keywords, and if you type those in at any moment during perusing the dialogue list, you can filter the list.

Quote

Any chance we'll get any significant new features or functionality in the short-term, perhaps appended to the end of the bug fix cycle?

The more I look at this sentence, the more redundant it feels.

That said, Toady's already mentioned he wanted to get the fruit harvesting in for dwarf mode as soon as possible. And he's always done a couple of small releases after a really big release like this.

Edit: Btw, I want to mention that the new morale system is going to make vaguely realistic horses hilarious: They're flight animals and a large part of horseback riding is paying attention to the comfort of the horse.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2014, 05:32:42 am by therahedwig »
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Knight Otu

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #32 on: July 14, 2014, 05:35:45 am »

What happened to the [POWER] token?
As far as I can tell, it still works as it is supposed to be. Powers simply seem to have fewer reliable targets now. (That said, there's an old power bug I should go and check.)

Also, everyone should try to remember - "Ever/Eventually is a long time", "It's planned, but there's no timeline", and "It would be nice to have, but there's no timeline."  :P
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Talvieno

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #33 on: July 14, 2014, 08:12:11 am »

When can we expect the features from fruit and fruit bearing plants to be fully implemented? At present gathering fruit bearing plants only gathers the plants which are essentially useless on their own. From looking over the RAWs one can deduce that there's something else that needs to be done with these plants to make their fruits usable. In the short term modders can simply go through and adjust the tags on these plants to let you gather their fruit like any other kind of plant, but I'd still be interested in knowing what the ultimate goals of this feature are.
He's said elsewhere that it would be soon. It'll either be during the bugfixing cycle or the next major update. He's stated he plans on making the brewables make more sense, and that he wanted to get the plants (and trees) to be a little more realistic - in fact, he's even said that if we want to submit changes of our own (provided they're correct), we can. I can't link you to exactly where he said that (not a good day for me), but it was in response to a question I asked, and in a FotF reply.
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Vorox

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #34 on: July 14, 2014, 08:33:50 am »

Will the future functions of civ leaders apply to players that are civ leaders?
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cephalo

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #35 on: July 14, 2014, 08:55:21 am »

Of course, all relationships are still eternal, so the lover thing is kind of broken now (sometimes it won't advance beyond lover because one of the parties is not interested in committing, but still neither ever breaks it off, ever...  not unrealistic in individual cases, but strange overall).

Hmm, this becomes a major issue when you're talking about royal succession.

Do entities still need to be married (committed) to produce children?

EDIT: Now that I think about it, it's not that bad, but it does seem like a very high chance of relationship failures ending royal lines.

« Last Edit: July 14, 2014, 09:01:36 am by cephalo »
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Puzzlemaker

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #36 on: July 14, 2014, 09:59:53 am »

Do migrating armies show up in fortress mode?  Is it possible to create a fortress that intercepts any armies heading towards your civilization?
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Jakob

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #37 on: July 14, 2014, 10:02:59 am »

Are there plans to fix the piles of people in forts and such this version? It tends to be an FPS killer which makes it very hard to play.
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Footkerchief

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #38 on: July 14, 2014, 10:06:23 am »

Are tamed megabeasts eventually going to be able to breed?

Megabeast reproduction is on the dev page.

Currently in worlds with long history, bronze colossi tend to get wiped out due to fact they don't breed and in world gen they aren't stronger than other megabeasts. When they are eventually randomized as well and more magic happens, is there going to be new way of getting more of them? Like crazy mages creating new ones or something?

Probably yes:
Rainseeker:   Speaking of the bronze colossuses; could it possibly be that you have it be connected together with a bunch of bolts or something that could fall off and that's the way you could kill it even if it's solid.
Toady:   I guess one of the things to consider is why is it there? Was it made by somebody?
Capntastic:   Some sort of supernatural intervention.
Toady:   I don't remember anymore, but was the one in Jason and the Argonauts made by Hephaestus or something? So created by a forge god type thing, right? Then there's the idea; could they have been made by old dwarves, then you have the problem of, well, can your dwarves make them? And then you get into the whole automaton segue into steampunk and so on. Then there's just them being ... or are they some kind of bronzey spirit of nature type thing, that's just kind of wondering around, causing trouble.
Ampersand:   I don't know if you've ever played Morrowind or anything, but in the lore of Morrowind or Daggerfall even, the dwarves did in fact make a gigantic mecha.
Toady:   Yeah, they had all kinds of steam automatons, right? I remember ... no I won that game, I think, if you're talking about the big statue at the end. So there's a notion of dwarves there, just ... there's something about steam [that] bothers me, I don't know why. Having all these steam powered ...
Ampersand:   I don't think their giant machine was steam powered, it was part of Lorkhan ...
Toady:   Oh yeah that's right, there's magic and stuff, and we don't have a whole lot of that, but we should, yeah. I don't remember what our thoughts on automatons were completely; I believe that having something like an intelligent automaton walking around would be an artifact type situation.

Are eventually civilizations and megabeasts going to have a more priority on what sites they invade? I know that civilizations make war because of torture and treatment of plants and such, but they do seem to be rather harsh on kobolds. Currently kobolds seem to get wiped out since they don't breed much and one army or megabeast is enough to wipe out all of them out. I'd imagine that civilizations and megabeasts wouldn't really bother kobolds much due to fact kobolds aren't much of a threat(well, I guess dragon might want to kill them if they steal from dragon, but yeah otherwise they get wiped out to extinction before year 200 so I never get to see them on medium history on fortress mode), but yeah. Kobolds are about same amount of threat and as bandit camps and I don't think bandit camps get wiped out by civilizations or megabeasts. Or at least they keep popping up more often than kobolds. Even besides improving kobolds' survival chances, I'd imagine young megabeasts would be more careful than adult size ones.

Yes, the current invasions are an unfinished placeholder.

Vaults' residents make me wonder if demons are eventually going to have multiple randomized types as well(I guess they might already have since all goblin civilization demons seem to be humanoid)? I heard 2d version had three types of demons with one being weak, one being lusty tentacle monster and one being boss type, do demons have that type thing going on or are they going to eventually?

They're already randomized.

Is future versions going to have bandit leaders with combat abilities again? Currently they seem to be lords and masters without armor and only a knife. Also, why do some demon masters run at sight of adventurer and others one shot kill me?

Yes, villains are unfinished (dev page).  Cowardly demons is a bug.

Are we eventually going to be able to search in legend mode by species/race?

Most likely yes, but reminder that suggestions go in the Suggestions forum.

Are there plans to do more with yielded opponents, such as taking them prisoner?

I'd love to march into the bandit camp that's been harassing a town, dispatch the henchmen and then drag the leader back to the lord and see him put in the dungeons while I receive my rewards.

Yup (this all applies to NPCs too):
Justice

    Surrender to those seeking you
        You have to follow orders to remain in surrendered state (generally to go to a location or drop your weapon)
        When you make a command that follows an order, there should be an option to skip ahead to stages of the journey (such as to a dungeon or halfway through the journey back if you want to attempt to escape from your captor)
        If you leave the surrendered state, you should be attacked until you surrender again, though force should not necessarily be lethal immediately
    Punishment
        Initial beatings
        Cutting off some small body part
        Branding (requires wounds to support art image from crafts)
        Stocks, buried to neck, tied to post
        Caned, whipped, hammered
        Executions
        Imprisonment (until there are ways to escape, might as well retire the character, at which point rescue might be possible by a subsequent character)

Are conversation system improvements on the short-term todo list? (could really use some sort of filtering/sorting options) I would apply this same question to the Log system as well, it can start to contain A LOT of stuff. Would be nice to be able to flag items or selectively suppress certain items, etc.

One was already mentioned:
Quote from: Urist Da Vinci
Is there currently any way to determine why people are fighting?

Aside from the occasional aside, it can be impossible to figure out why a fight is happening.  That's a reasonably short-term goal. 

Any chance we'll get any significant new features or functionality in the short-term, perhaps appended to the end of the bug fix cycle?

There will be new features after bug fixing as usual, but the length of the bug fix cycle is somewhat TBD, depending how broken the game is.

Will the future functions of civ leaders apply to players that are civ leaders?

Where possible, yes:
AFFILIATION ARC: You should be able to rise to the top of an entity (civilization, town, etc.) in adventure mode. While the full set of responsibilities that would entail will have to wait, it should at least be possible to attain this status for the first version. You should be able to do things for individuals. This could earn you favors from sleeping in their home and food gifts all the way to a marriage offer. There can be smaller entities like bandits and cults which could offer more unsavory tasks for similar privileges (steal, kill, kidnap, etc.). Can earn right to sleep in the large hall in town if you've become affiliated with them, but vagrancy needs to be punished and the camping must be harsher before this is meaningful.
Your followers

    List of followers and ability to look at their information
    Being able to take along aggrieved people for a time if you are seeking justice for them
    Reputation with entity (see below) allowing for easier followers
    Being able to issue orders to attack targets
        It should depend, but orders to kill civilians, especially people they know, should result in various negative reactions, possibly including hostility and violence -- your behavior should cause these reactions as well
    Being able to issue orders to distract and lead off targets
    Being able to issue orders to stay at a site for general purposes (defense, caring for livestock, etc.)
        Depending on loyalty, they should not follow unreasonable orders for long (like guarding a random wilderness location)
    Expansion of personality system to support more value-judgment-based properties such as bravery vs. cowardice/apathy/recklessness
    Better morale failures
    Having your own entity name for your group if you have a high enough profile (or before that, but nobody will care)

Toady, there is any time frame to resume work on the night creatures? Vampires and Werecreatures aren't working well in Adventurer mode, and I remember you wanted to include some more.

Vampire issues are on the tracker.

Do migrating armies show up in fortress mode?  Is it possible to create a fortress that intercepts any armies heading towards your civilization?

Fort Mode only gets targeted invasions for now, but you'll get passers-by later.

Are there plans to fix the piles of people in forts and such this version? It tends to be an FPS killer which makes it very hard to play.

It's on the bug tracker, and yeah it's a bad one.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2014, 04:33:56 pm by Footkerchief »
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XArgon

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #39 on: July 14, 2014, 10:08:41 am »

Wow, that's a lot of questions. :)
First of all, thanks for the great work, Toady! :)

Also,

Now that climbing is implemented, is a landscape rewrite planned any time soon, such as having some steep cliffs generated without ramps?
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Footkerchief

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #40 on: July 14, 2014, 10:14:15 am »

Also,

Now that climbing is implemented, is a landscape rewrite planned any time soon, such as having some steep cliffs generated without ramps?


No specific timeline, but they'll be back:
I'd like to have high cliffs back, and climbing was the main obstacle there, but I need to continue to be a bit careful there.  The old situation with cliffs everywhere was still bad -- might have to wait for the 3D veins and landforms and things.  I like ladders and ropes...  I don't even recollect at this point (burned out as I am since this is the last answer I'm typing up) what the block was for getting rope ladders in before, so I'll have to see what happens there.
When cliffs come back - when we get a notion of a cliff as an external feature - the problem with cliffs coming back was that you didn't have a way to climb, they were everywhere and you didn't have a way to climb in adventure mode. But cliffs can start to come back first probably as external features, just like the lava and so on, like lava and bottomless pits used to be these features underground, there are going to be special features above ground where you have a bit more interesting things that it also can have a handle on so it doesn't just put them everywhere and at that time you can start to think about a cave entrance that looks more interesting. The problem was that there's no real sheer faces to make a cave entrance look more like you'd expect a cave entrance to look like, so it just has to dig down, right? It has to dig in the dirt until it gets a cave entrance for you, which is really disappointing because you go and they all look like these little pits. So it's something we want to change but it's something that has an intermediate step that needs to go in first and I'm not sure when the aboveground thing ... when we put in things like canyons and mesas and other interesting constructions aboveground.
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MaskedMiner

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #41 on: July 14, 2014, 10:50:53 am »

I meant if there are going to be MULTIPLE different randomized demon types

Like there seems to be three basic categories for spoilery vault guardian monsters :P The animal like one, the humanoid one and huge monster one. Are there going to be multiple different demon categories or are they going to be same "Humanoid goblin leaders and ones you can unleash by digging adamantinum are just as random as forbidden beasts" so far? Like, I remember demons from hell being anything from salt six legged anteaters to floating cloud with wings to humanoid demons like goblin leader ones.

But thanks for answering the other questions :)
« Last Edit: July 14, 2014, 10:53:49 am by MaskedMiner »
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Footkerchief

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #42 on: July 14, 2014, 11:02:12 am »

I meant if there are going to be MULTIPLE different randomized demon types

Like there seems to be three basic categories for spoilery vault guardian monsters :P The animal like one, the humanoid one and huge monster one. Are there going to be multiple different demon categories or are they going to be same "Humanoid goblin leaders and ones you can unleash by digging adamantinum are just as random as forbidden beasts" so far? Like, I remember demons from hell being anything from salt six legged anteaters to floating cloud with wings to humanoid demons like goblin leader ones.

But thanks for answering the other questions :)

All the randomized creature stuff is unfinished, so that kind of change is definitely fair game.  However, I don't think Toady has specific plans yet, and I don't think he'd spoil them if he did.
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thvaz

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #43 on: July 14, 2014, 11:02:23 am »

That bug wasn't what I had in mind with vampire problems. It is more like the fact that they don't try do disguise themselves, and the fact that werecreatures are useless in adventurer mode right now. The initial ideas Toady had when he started implementing them were much more interesting.

And there is my doubt about the rest of the night creatures that were cut out for the 32.01 release.
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MaskedMiner

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #44 on: July 14, 2014, 11:05:21 am »

I meant if there are going to be MULTIPLE different randomized demon types

Like there seems to be three basic categories for spoilery vault guardian monsters :P The animal like one, the humanoid one and huge monster one. Are there going to be multiple different demon categories or are they going to be same "Humanoid goblin leaders and ones you can unleash by digging adamantinum are just as random as forbidden beasts" so far? Like, I remember demons from hell being anything from salt six legged anteaters to floating cloud with wings to humanoid demons like goblin leader ones.

But thanks for answering the other questions :)

All the randomized creature stuff is unfinished, so that kind of change is definitely fair game.  However, I don't think Toady has specific plans yet, and I don't think he'd spoil them if he did.

Ah, ok, I see... Well, thanks for fast answers :)
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