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Author Topic: Future of the Fortress  (Read 1012139 times)

Putnam

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3855 on: April 01, 2016, 12:21:33 am »

Other than engravings and decorations, where are we, the players, going to see the output of the mythology generator? And by "see", I mean "both notice and recognize". Will we see anything like lakes that were created from the footprints of gods, and will we recognize them as such?

he... he said that in the reply he just made

The myths it creates can lead to varied game elements, especially since you can just turn them off and on with parameters.  We won't be able to get everything in all at once, but we should have a healthy first pass.  This could change the end-game in player forts significantly, for instance, or make a certain form of magic occur everywhere, opening up new workshop/job chains etc., whereas other magic would resist industrialization/familiarity.  There are various frequency/bloodline/requirement variables that come up, so individuals of a given race won't all be the same.  We're hoping to add new landforms in the first release (giant region-sized cosmic egg shell fragments, and so forth), and eventually get to entire planes that you can visit in either mode (the difficulties there are the same as the difficulties with getting a separate off-site battle map up in fort mode, pretty much, and we'll probably handle them at once, in the distant future).  Important artifacts will come up in the first pass -- the generator has stuff like looms that guide all of fate and so forth, and I'm not really sure how your interactions with those will go.

We're not quite sure how the exposition is going to work -- there's worldgen itself, where we're hoping to make the process highlight the important world elements and mythical events instead of just giving you the current technical rundown.  Legends mode should have lots of information, and we're hoping it comes up in conversation/written works/art etc a bit as possible, as it does with historical events.  Certain elements might occur in chargen and the embark screen as well, if they apply.  It still remains to be seen just how confusing it all is and where we'll need to focus.  If you set your world's fantasy rating to the maximum, there won't even be dwarves, just some playable race with random traits and a random name, but at least that exposition problem comes from opting-in through the maxed-out parameter, so it's not crucial to get it right immediately.

Random_Dragon

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3856 on: April 01, 2016, 12:45:24 am »

I smell a case of TLDR-itis at work on Coch's part. :V

Shonai_Dweller

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3857 on: April 01, 2016, 02:55:14 am »

So, full fantasy with randomly generated sentient beings and no dorfs sounds fun. Has anyone worked out the randomly generated tileset yet?

'Maximum Fantasy' setting will offer us a variety of procedurally generated races. Does that mean the Mythgen release will open up "Fortress Mode" to other types of site management modes (cities, pits, forest retreats, etc)?  Or will the system arrange to always have an underground dwelling fortress building civ available? Or not and just let you play adventurer instead?
« Last Edit: April 01, 2016, 03:52:00 am by Shonai_Dweller »
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KillerClowns

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3858 on: April 01, 2016, 11:45:15 am »

Reading one of the sample myths from the myth generator in the PC Gamer interview, I'm really impressed by how much sense it makes, how internally consistent the details are. I can summarize the visible myth fragment in natural language quite easily: Titatheus is the creator of the world, but a fairly malevolent demiurge in the Gnostic tradition. They created the universe as we know it by disturbing the perfect fire of the Timeless Judgment with their Mischevious Test. Dwarves, in turn, are fallible but hopeful creatures. They stand between the perfection of the Timeless Judgment, from which the Zolidon Fay, enigmatic grandchild of Titatheus, took essence, and the Phupithion Stream, the Stygian river in which they were created. They chose to align themselves with the Timeless Judgment, rebelling against their creator. And indeed, dwarves who act improperly have their souls merged into the Mischevious Test that Titatheus created, while they draw their magic from the Timeless Judgment of their essence.

I'm excited to see what else arises in the final version, what impact it will have on my games, and what creative ways the community will find to exploit the arcana of whatever universes they find themselves in.
« Last Edit: April 01, 2016, 12:04:20 pm by KillerClowns »
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Knight Otu

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3859 on: April 01, 2016, 11:51:45 am »

Thanks for the answers, Toady. :)
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cochramd

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3860 on: April 01, 2016, 12:28:33 pm »

I smell a case of TLDR-itis at work on Coch's part. :V
Yes, last night I was stricken by a bad case of TLDRitis. Chalk it up to me not being terribly interested in most other people's questions.

Quote
Quote from: TheFlame52
Will dwarven merchants ever haul their wares on the backs of dralthas?
Quote from: cochramd
Will we ever see caravans and sieges come from the caverns instead of above ground? Will we ever be able to start a fortress in the caverns and have to dig up to the surface, instead of starting on the surface and digging down to the caverns?

It's much more likely to happen when we get to the deep dwarf trade from the edge of the underground layers (probably with the firstish embark scenario release).  We're certainly planning to have a cavern start scenario, though it is very hard to say now what will be in the first batch since there are so many options.
So no point in asking how deep one might be able to start, huh?

Quote
Quote from: cochramd
How high/low on your to-do list is the implementation of draft animals and the support necessary for them (feed bags, feeding troughs, etc)?

It isn't in the short-term dev plans, so it's in the amorphous rest-of-stuff with everything else.
Well, that's a tad disappointing to hear. I know you've got a whole lot of cool features in progress that are more fun to work on, but draft animals and the support necessary for them strikes me as a feature that would bring a lot of gameplay changes for relatively little coding work on your part. Everything changes when you increase how quickly a large number of things can be hauled and decrease the dwarfpower needed to do so. The support for draft animals would make caring for herds of grazers much easier in general and provide a use for them beyond the meat industry.

On the other hand, this mythology generator of yours looks like it'll rock my socks off, so who am I to question the plans of The Great Toady One?
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Untrustedlife

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3861 on: April 01, 2016, 12:29:28 pm »

Reading one of the sample myths from the myth generator in the PC Gamer interview, I'm really impressed by how much sense it makes, how internally consistent the details are. I can summarize the visible myth fragment in natural language quite easily: Titatheus is the creator of the world, but a fairly malevolent demiurge in the Gnostic tradition. They created the universe as we know it by disturbing the perfect fire of the Timeless Judgment with their Mischevious Test. Dwarves, in turn, are fallible but hopeful creatures. They stand between the perfection of the Timeless Judgment, from which the Zolidon Fay, enigmatic grandchild of Titatheus, took essence, and the Phupithion Stream, the Stygian river in which they were created. They chose to align themselves with the Timeless Judgment, rebelling against their creator. And indeed, dwarves who act improperly have their souls merged into the Mischevious Test that Titatheus created, while they draw their magic from the Timeless Judgment of their essence.

I'm excited to see what else arises in the final version, what impact it will have on my games, and what creative ways the community will find to exploit the arcana of whatever universes they find themselves in.


Its definitely a good reason to keep playing in a single world .
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Dirst

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3862 on: April 01, 2016, 01:03:09 pm »

Its definitely a good reason to keep playing in a single world .
Now I'm going to feel even more guilty tossing out multiple worlds in the process of troubleshooting a mod...
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ZM5

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3863 on: April 01, 2016, 01:04:58 pm »

Reading one of the sample myths from the myth generator in the PC Gamer interview, I'm really impressed by how much sense it makes, how internally consistent the details are. I can summarize the visible myth fragment in natural language quite easily: Titatheus is the creator of the world, but a fairly malevolent demiurge in the Gnostic tradition. They created the universe as we know it by disturbing the perfect fire of the Timeless Judgment with their Mischevious Test. Dwarves, in turn, are fallible but hopeful creatures. They stand between the perfection of the Timeless Judgment, from which the Zolidon Fay, enigmatic grandchild of Titatheus, took essence, and the Phupithion Stream, the Stygian river in which they were created. They chose to align themselves with the Timeless Judgment, rebelling against their creator. And indeed, dwarves who act improperly have their souls merged into the Mischevious Test that Titatheus created, while they draw their magic from the Timeless Judgment of their essence.

I'm excited to see what else arises in the final version, what impact it will have on my games, and what creative ways the community will find to exploit the arcana of whatever universes they find themselves in.
I'm sorta curious as to what explanations there would be for the birth of every modded race I have in my worlds.

Also I noticed, the number 2 is selected on the image itself, so is it just one page of the entire mythology? Are the other pages about demons and various megabeasts and such?

Random_Dragon

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3864 on: April 01, 2016, 01:05:23 pm »

Its definitely a good reason to keep playing in a single world .
Now I'm going to feel even more guilty tossing out multiple worlds in the process of troubleshooting a mod...

Madness. It only makes the offering to Armok's evil twin, the god of boredom, even sweeter.

Dirst

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3865 on: April 01, 2016, 01:11:29 pm »

Its definitely a good reason to keep playing in a single world .
Now I'm going to feel even more guilty tossing out multiple worlds in the process of troubleshooting a mod...

Madness. It only makes the offering to Armok's evil twin, the god of boredom, even sweeter.
"The end is nigh!  For I have gazed upon the error log, and is a long sad tale indeed.  Even now, the modder's hand moves toward our destruction!  Repent while you can!"
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pikachu17

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3866 on: April 01, 2016, 01:23:55 pm »


will modders be able to choose what mythology their worlds have? I'd hate to make a pokemon mod, only to find out in a world it has more vanilla-ish mythology

Dirst

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3867 on: April 01, 2016, 01:28:39 pm »


will modders be able to choose what mythology their worlds have? I'd hate to make a pokemon mod, only to find out in a world it has more vanilla-ish mythology
I wouldn't expect a huge amount of control at first (other than the level-of-fantasy slider), but I would very much appreciate being able to assure there is at least one "forging of the world" or "forging life" myth in my mod, and other mods would benefit from moddable myths.

Almost everything is destined for the raws, please be patient.  (As Dirst hits F5 repeatedly waiting for the next version...)
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Random_Dragon

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3868 on: April 01, 2016, 01:32:21 pm »


will modders be able to choose what mythology their worlds have? I'd hate to make a pokemon mod, only to find out in a world it has more vanilla-ish mythology

I doubt it'll be any more controllable than it is now, at least not until the foundations are laid. For example, right now if I wanted to make a fantasy mod with my desired trappings, all those generated beasts (especially fucking boogeymen) are just getting in the way.

I assume these will be tweakable to a useful degree in advanced world generation, the same way most of the generated shenanigans are now, but basic worldgen will likely only have a vague "level of weirdness" slider. At least, as far as I've gathered from Toady's responses. I might be having the same TLDR-itis problem though, and might've missed an important detail as to how much control the basic world creation will give you.

KillerClowns

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3869 on: April 01, 2016, 01:41:16 pm »

Creatures and civs can both be assigned hard-coded spheres in the RAWs. It's likely the mythos for those civs/creatures will be guaranteed to be associated to the assigned spheres or, at the least, never associated to opposite ones. If your modded dark elves have [SPHERE:DARKNESS], presumably there's a check to ensure they'll probably emerge from and worship a sacred shadow or some such, and even if not, they'll never be children of sunlight.
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