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Author Topic: Future of the Fortress  (Read 630191 times)

Shonai_Dweller

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2265 on: July 31, 2015, 01:42:14 am »

With the worlds of Dwarf Fortress being somewhat dangerous, is it possible to hire fighting types with no real interest in the arts to join your troupe as bodyguards?
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NJW2000

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2266 on: July 31, 2015, 03:32:07 am »

I think he implied that they had to have a bit of a taste for music... wonder if they'd demand a song before every fight they got involved with :P

Heck, I could see that happening in fortress mode:

"Urist McCandyarmour cancels kill Noku Evilhell the Gruesome Slayer of Gods: no music."
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jwest23

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2267 on: July 31, 2015, 08:43:33 am »

You can actually form a band and go from town to town trying to get famous.

"We're on a mission from Armok."
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monk12

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2268 on: July 31, 2015, 12:40:20 pm »

I think he implied that they had to have a bit of a taste for music... wonder if they'd demand a song before every fight they got involved with :P

Heck, I could see that happening in fortress mode:

"Urist McCandyarmour cancels kill Noku Evilhell the Gruesome Slayer of Gods: no music."

I think that was just for the people who would perform with you; whether you can get a "Glory or Death" follower to serve as roadie is another thing (I'd assume so, but who knows?)

Dirst

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2269 on: July 31, 2015, 01:35:52 pm »

With the worlds of Dwarf Fortress being somewhat dangerous, is it possible to hire fighting types with no real interest in the arts to join your troupe as bodyguards?
You could always have some companions that aren't members of the troupe.  Brings up a related question, though:

Is it possible for the player to establish a troupe and leave it, with the troupe remaining functional?
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Daniel the Finlander

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2270 on: July 31, 2015, 02:29:32 pm »

How are the outcomes of world gen battles resolved? I've sometimes seen severely outnumbered armies win the battle despite losing three quarters of their warriors and their leader, with the enemy leader still alive and their casualties moderate. I also think that the leader's skills matter.
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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2271 on: August 01, 2015, 04:25:34 pm »

Thanks to Alfrodo, Button, Putnam, Max^TM, MrWiggles, PTTG??, Vattic, Knight Otu, Dirst and anybody I missed for helping to answer questions this time!

Quote from: Robsoie
I imagine a goblin dark fortress launch an invasion to try to conquer your multi-species fortress.
Your fortress contains goblins that of course came from their original goblin site, that happens to be the one launching the invasion.

So invading goblins and defending ones may have some common faction/group membership and some may even be relatives.

With this multi-specie mix, will we then see much more loyalty cascades when siege is coming ?
Or will there be some change to that faction system ?

The whole cascade thing shouldn't be as common, generally, due to all the rewrites over the years, though I'm not certain of the various bugs.  It doesn't mark permanent enemies the way it used to.

Quote from: Kogan Loloklam
would a giant butterfly FB be able to infect the drunk syndrome into it's victim from it's poisonous powder in a manner that plays nice with current drunk syndrome, making an alcohol based drunk even drunker on FB butterfly dust.
But also anything with exposure flags. Will procedural based syndrome effects be able to tick a common flag. Like drunkenness. Taking them from buzzed to alcohol poisoned even though there was no alcohol.

The FBs don't know how to use various plant alcohol syndromes from the raws.  There would need to be a system in place that tells them which tags/classes it is okay for them to co-opt, and there isn't anything like that yet.

Quote from: falcc
Does this mean creatures with the CURIOUSBEAST_GUZZLER tag can all be gotten drunk to some degree? Outside of tiny creatures like the gnomes would it be possible for creatures to drink themselves unconscious or to death if they're offered enough booze? I guess what I'm asking is whether I can get giants and ettins strategically drunk by setting out booze stockpiles.

I don't remember how much the curious beasts guzzle and guzzle...  haven't looked at it for years, but yeah, if they drink and drink, you should be able to take them out.  I don't recall it checking the fullness value, which would presumably save them if it did (since max fullness doesn't yet vary with size).

Quote from: origamiscienceguy
Will a dwarf keep him/herself from consuming an unhealthy amount of booze?

It isn't currently something they understand, but I'm going to balance it out so that only the extremest gluttons in rare circumstances will off themselves, if I get it right.

Quote from: Whatsifsowhatsit
Will [drunken self-medication] still be implemented in the future? I'm particularly interested in seeing it used against not just grief/trauma, but also fears and phobias. (It's not wise, but it happens.)

We don't have any specific plans, so it's like everything else at this point.

Quote from: Whatsifsowhatsit
Is it possible for dwarves of certain personality types to bond over tavern brawls, rather than have it be always solely a negative factor in their relationship?

There's nothing like that at this point, though I'm not sure it is considered a negative either.  It's not the same as tantrum fistfights, anyway.

Quote from: Witty
Toady, because of the schedule conflicts you've had with Rainseeker and Captaintastic, would you ever be open to inviting other forum members to DFtalk?

We've had enough trouble getting together the Q&A episodes that I can't really imagine setting up anything more complicated at this point.  If we got back into a rhythm with the regular episodes I imagine the format might be expanded, but it hasn't happened yet.

Quote from: Max^TM
Will it be possible to spread knowledge of your deeds/increase your fame through these performances? Will the success of doing so depend on your skill in the performance?

So just basic telling people will work as it does, while blowing people away with a bardic tale and dance will lead to it being spread faster/people recognizing the tale itself and not just the deed?

There isn't an added skill bonus to reputation for the incident knowledge passed, since there isn't yet an easy way to attach the method of spread to the rumor or anything like that, and there's no overall independent "spread strength" that can be acted on.  You can pass basic information through poems/music.

Quote from: NJW2000
Bit of an obvious question, but will performances affect your fame, and will that mean you can get more people to follow you? Also, is fame one absolute value for each civ, or will a bard be able to get more singers than spearmen as companions?

Yeah, your performance reputation increases your maximum number of followers, though that still depends mostly on your social stats.  Your reputation is in many categories (there are 4 types of entertainment fame currently), and it doesn't influence out-of-category people nearly as much, and you still need skills in the right category (art vs. battle) to get skilled people.

Quote from: Ghills
Dwarves are typically highly racist and isolationist, making multi-species forts a rarity in fantasy.  How will that be reflected in-game, do we get different racism values between civs or options to have a dwarf-only fort?

You've mentioned that drunkenness is related to bodysize, but that suggests that humans will be less likely to be drunk than dwarves, which sounds backwards. Especially since alcohol functions like water in dwarven biology (otherwise they would not suffer slowness when drinking only water). Will there be a method by which dwarves are less susceptible to drunkeness?

There is a tolerance for differences personality variable, but it doesn't lead to widespread uniform prejudices.  We're not sure how or to what extent we want to proceed with that sort of thing at this point.

I don't recall what we did with the liver size for this time.  It's there and should be reflected in how fast dwarves get drunk/process syndromes.  Somebody mentioned the disease resistance variable, though whether that affects alcohol tolerance depends on the syndrome def and I'm not sure I want it to end up going that way.  There will be something in place by release.

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Quote from: Robsoie
Regarding the philosopher/culture changes potentials, i was wondering about marriage by example.
Currently marriage are a male and a female start with socializing, developing the relation into the marriage in the end.

That's one of the way it happens in real world, but in real world there are very different cultures, in which marriage does not happen this way, by example marriage can be decided by parents of the male and the female, marriage can be polygamy with a man being married to several female (polygyny) and more rarely a female being married to several males (polyandry) and probably more ways.

Will a civ , influenced by a specific philosophy/philospher, be able to change its marriage culture to fit a different way from what happens in current version ?

Additionally, about religions, will there be an equivalent to philosophers in the religious domain, spreading their religion ? i can imagine with some cults trying to gain power, or to isolate from other, or to influence rulers, etc... even leading a civilisation to wage war against another, even within the same entity ?
Quote from: vjmdhzgr
Well, since 0.40 it could be a male and a male or a female and a female.
Quote from: Robsoie
Ah yes, i completely forgot about that one.
That then add more to my question about the different types of marriages in regards to specific civ culture changes :
Will there be cultures spread by a philosopher into a civ that would set them to ignore or allow or disallow gay marriages ?

There's nothing like that with marriage in the next version.  We might see different systems when we get to the law/custom framework stuff, but it's unclear which directions we'll be going there -- the main concerns will be practical property stuff as it relates to hill dwarves and the economy and so forth, as well as the religious enhancements.  The religious analogues to philosophers and cults and all that are up for those embark scenarios and as we continue along.  Schisms and other trouble will happen at some point (it's in our internal religion notes, anyway).

Quote from: Xazo-Tak
Will I be able to sing songs of my defeated foes mid-battle?

The ones you've defeated in previous battles, yeah, and probably even the ones defeated in the current battle so far, I think, because they get incident reports/rumors as right they go down.

Quote from: vjmdhzgr
Will you add some method for adventurers or fortress citizens to learn how to read soon? Will fortress mode scribes even need to know how to read? And finally will there be any reason to read books in adventurer mode?

Yeah, that has been strange, since people don't know specific languages and the "reader" skill only ever came up as an incidental cruelty in adventure mode.  I don't have literacy rates yet or anything like that, so we'll probably continue on in limbo, being generous to the unskilled dwarf.  Adventure mode has had reasons to read books as long as we've had necromancers, and that's still the most stark example of a book you might want to read.  You can pick up new art forms and scholarly knowledge, but you can't use the scholarly knowledge for much yet, unless you want to spread your values by glutting your own books in a library or something.

Quote from: Cruxador
Is reputation as an artist going to get broadened to include non-performing arts which are already in the game, such as sculpting/statuary?

It seems like the sort of thing that might happen once the adv skill stuff goes in, since you'll be producing pieces at that time.  I'm not sure when individual fort dwarf skill reps will matter in fort mode, since the skill itself is sitting there and governs most of the things going on, but there could be a vector there for the change as well.

Quote
Quote from: Novel Scoops
Do you have any plans for lower order "magical" items in the Artifact arc?
Quote from: FallacyofUrist
Do you plan to add randomly generated books of magic(not just necromancy)?

It would be interesting if gods didn't have only one type of controlled magic to bestow.

The Artifact arc will indeed be doing a few additional things -- we've mentioned the myth generator, and that by itself already sets up a lot of possibilities, some very quick and easy.  Mainly what we're doing now is trying to really narrow it down to a few focused pushes so we don't end up with a 2 year magic release.  We'll have more details on what makes the cut as that approaches.

Quote from: Greiger
Will all drinks be hardcoded to induce drunkenness or would it be possible for modders to create what would essentially amount to non-alcoholic drinks by omitting a syndrome tag?

The syndrome is in the plant alcohol template, not the "drink" item.  The old dwarf alcohol counter still uses the drink item, I think, and there could be other old behaviors sitting around, but the syndrome itself is all out in the raw files.

Quote from: Whatsifsowhatsit
Will there be any changes/additions to Legends mode, and if so, which are they?

Nothing aside from all the new events and written content and that sort of thing.  A few things like the festival details are currently legends mode only.  But I haven't done anything like the 3rd party utilities.

Quote from: falcc
Will you be able to drink/sleep/dance at a tavern from your retired fort in adventure mode?

I haven't tried it yet, but I think drinking might haphazardly depend on the stockpile situation, and they might not understand where the mugs are.  The occupations are the same in both modes and so are the zones, so dancing/performances and renting should work.

Quote from: dakenho
Many games site your work as inspiration/influence to their game, and many games seek to be fortress likes, do you ever worry about other games outpacing dwarf fortress?

We've already been outpaced in many ways.  Every significant project seems to go its own direction though, and people play multiple games, so we aren't that worried about a sudden entire player-base depletion.  Hopefully we can continue to survive for a time.  In any case, it would be a sad thing if DF weren't outpaced utterly and completely in all ways over time, for the world of games as a whole.

Quote from: DarkwingUK
My question: is it likely that for this release or one of the upcoming releases, you will put in an ability for us to open the world map while in fortress mode? Simply having the ability to see which cities are where would make that news much more accessible and engaging.

Also, with the ability for people to tell stories and sing songs, I imagine that with the upcoming release, we will have visitors coming to our taverns and sharing even more news from the outside world.

As we have with the outpost liaison, would there be a similar notification or interaction system with tavern visitors?

Yeah, the news system is crappy -- world maps and more would help, although I'm not sure when I'll next get a chance to work on it.  We were hoping to have visitors share news with the tavern keeper, though it hasn't happened yet.

Quote from: Puzzlemaker
Hey Toady, Do you have plans to reset or clean up the eternal suggestion system?  What about doing another feature run based on the top suggestions?

We don't have a plan -- we haven't attacked all ten or so that won before and got on the dev page.  I think some of them were vote-cleared when we moved them to dev, so I'm not even sure what would be fair in terms of comparing those to the ones that are now on the top.  It was so long ago, anyway.  If it were to be reset, something would probably have to be done with the comparable breadth/type of topics and so on to give the thing some lasting vitality, but that's been talked out in various ways and I don't know how to proceed.

Quote from: Alfrodo
Would books, like performances. Be able to be written in adventure mode provided you have a blank codice or scroll?

Yeah, it'll be in before the release, though you might not be able to bind a codex after you write on a quire.

Quote from: Daniel the Finlander
Why are goblin sieges so small? The largest one I've seen had 30 goblins. In the previous version the sieges were much larger, and armies in world gen seem to consist of hundreds or even thousands of soldiers.

Why don't the besieging goblins have cavalry? Haven't seen a single goblin riding a creature in this version.

The pathing problem that's been handled for next time will have them appear more often.  I'm not sure about the beakdogs -- it checks the site pops for them when it prepares the invading army to leave their site, but perhaps they fail to keep them in world gen properly.  I'll check.  The sizes of the armies sent to player fortresses are still governed by some ramp-up code for gamey reasons (so they never reach w.g. sizes -- which is also a cpu thing), and they are now also capped by who's actually available, so a few things could keep the sizes down.  Then again, I'm not really sure what the final caps should be at this point.  Maybe they are a bit low.

Quote from: Alfrodo
You mentioned being able to make codices and scrolls in fortress mode, but what will dwarves writing be like? Will they just do it themselves when they feel like it or will you be able to shout at your writer/wordsmith/scribe I need a book and I need it now!

I.e. Will it be similar to the current state of strange moods or like engravings?

It's more routine than a mood but it's not controlled entirely by you.  You get to decide to have a library and who works there, then they do their thing.  Once scholarship matters more, you might be able to direct it a bit.

Quote from: falcc
Just to clarify: if a philosophical outlook becomes popular can it change civilization or individual values now? Or do they just become familiar with a value position in order to write a reply? Can a goblin civilization be won over to the value of art or ...craftsgoblinship?

Yeah, they actually change.  If you can get goblins to build a library, you could change them with books, but they start out being fairly against that sort of thing.  Changing individuals after world gen doesn't spread to the entire civ and if I remember they won't build a library after w.g. is over.  So we still need a few pieces to get all the way to your scenario, I think, with movements that act on groups through speaking etc.

Quote from: LordBaal
Would be possible to have some impromptu poem or sing a song made on the fly on a conversation, you know, in the sake of the arts of seduction?

We don't have adv mode relationship formation yet.

Quote from: Alfrodo
Will reading philosophy books in adventure mode modify your own adventurer's values / ethics?

Right now it would.  As with the weird crying effects, it's something I'm not sure about yet in terms of overall direction.

Quote from: Spish
A tag [for gorlak/etc. visitors], you say? Is it possible for intelligent megabeasts/semimegas to join civilizations, or perhaps even player fortresses in this manner?

Once a critter has semimega+ status, I don't think they do the same wandering routines.  They'll need to be handled in a different way to account for their importance, or the lines will end up becoming blurred, but they are still separate for this time.

Quote from: Shonai_Dweller
With the worlds of Dwarf Fortress being somewhat dangerous, is it possible to hire fighting types with no real interest in the arts to join your troupe as bodyguards?

You can't yet hire bodyguards using money (that's in the merchant role notes), but you can ask warrior-types to adventure with you without having them join you troupe, and they'll happily follow you around.  You'd need to have some relevant talent or fame to get them to come along.

Quote from: Dirst
Is it possible for the player to establish a troupe and leave it, with the troupe remaining functional?

Yeah, though that is a little odd in the case of a new troupe.

Quote from: Daniel the Finlander
How are the outcomes of world gen battles resolved? I've sometimes seen severely outnumbered armies win the battle despite losing three quarters of their warriors and their leader, with the enemy leader still alive and their casualties moderate. I also think that the leader's skills matter.

It's sort of tragic the way it pairs things piece by piece -- skill matters a lot and can lead to unrealistic scenarios when non-hf groups get chewed up like dynasty warriors, 10 at a time.  We wanted to fit a more final system into the overall army rewrite, with lines and terrain and that sort of thing, but we haven't done that rewrite yet, so the cruddy system has remained in place for years.
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LordBaal

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2272 on: August 01, 2015, 04:58:07 pm »

Excellent, thanks Toady!
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crazyabe

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2273 on: August 02, 2015, 01:28:51 am »

well that's a lot of info. now id best digest it before i get stomach cramps...

Knight Otu

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2274 on: August 02, 2015, 05:32:53 am »

Thanks for the answers! :)
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Whatsifsowhatsit

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2275 on: August 02, 2015, 08:32:01 am »

Thank you Toady! As before, these answers inspired some new questions from me.

Quote from: NJW2000
Bit of an obvious question, but will performances affect your fame, and will that mean you can get more people to follow you? Also, is fame one absolute value for each civ, or will a bard be able to get more singers than spearmen as companions?

Yeah, your performance reputation increases your maximum number of followers, though that still depends mostly on your social stats.  Your reputation is in many categories (there are 4 types of entertainment fame currently), and it doesn't influence out-of-category people nearly as much, and you still need skills in the right category (art vs. battle) to get skilled people.

May I inquire which categories of reputation there are exactly?

Quote from: Xazo-Tak
Will I be able to sing songs of my defeated foes mid-battle?

The ones you've defeated in previous battles, yeah, and probably even the ones defeated in the current battle so far, I think, because they get incident reports/rumors as right they go down.

Will singing songs of defeated foes mid-battle be interpreted as a taunt and/or cause opponents to re-evaluate how much of a threat you are (in either direction), or is there no such understanding currently?
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Vattic

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2276 on: August 02, 2015, 11:02:40 am »

A lot of interesting answers, cheers Toady.

Quote from: Daniel the Finlander
Why are goblin sieges so small? The largest one I've seen had 30 goblins. In the previous version the sieges were much larger, and armies in world gen seem to consist of hundreds or even thousands of soldiers.

The pathing problem that's been handled for next time will have them appear more often. -snip-  The sizes of the armies sent to player fortresses are still governed by some ramp-up code for gamey reasons (so they never reach w.g. sizes -- which is also a cpu thing), and they are now also capped by who's actually available, so a few things could keep the sizes down.  Then again, I'm not really sure what the final caps should be at this point.  Maybe they are a bit low.
How much, if any, control do you plan to give the player over caps like this? I only ask because we have editable pop caps and the like so players can adjust depending on how good a PC they have and how few FPS they can handle.
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Robsoie

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2277 on: August 02, 2015, 11:14:22 am »

Related to the multi-species fortress, without having to use the "kill" order from a squad, will you be able to prevent/block entrance to migrants that you suspect are possible spies/there to undermine your fort (migrant coming from a civ you're directly at war with by example) , or are demon worshippers bent on spreading evil (goblins by example) ?
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vjmdhzgr

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2278 on: August 02, 2015, 12:11:04 pm »

Related to the multi-species fortress, without having to use the "kill" order from a squad, will you be able to prevent/block entrance to migrants that you suspect are possible spies/there to undermine your fort (migrant coming from a civ you're directly at war with by example) , or are demon worshippers bent on spreading evil (goblins by example) ?
I'm pretty sure he's said he's not getting into spies or any other potential harmful visitors to a fortress for quite a long time now. Also I'm pretty sure that visitors have to ask to join your fortress permanently which allows you to choose whether or not you want them to join at which point you could deny them. Or you could lock doors, or drop them into pits of magma like you already can.
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Dirst

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2279 on: August 02, 2015, 02:11:46 pm »

Thanks for the answers, Toady!

Leaving would be odd for a brand new troupe... "Okay guys, now that we're all together and ready to perform, I'm moving on with my life. Bye."
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(0.42 & 0.43) Accessibility Utility v1.04 - Console tools to navigate the map
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