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[peasant cretin]

Yeah, this has just turned into the NW_Kohaku and Untrustedlife Yells A Lot Hour.

Don't be unfair, im yelling alot aswell.

Magic!

[fearlesslittletoaster]

This isn't really a question. Nonetheless, ditto. Containment protocols are a blast.

I suppose you are right about it not being a proper question. I just can't think how to phrase it as a better one. There is a question here, one about the viability/desirability of random dangerous stuff as a game design choice since it's kind of implied in the future of the fortress that he sees that kind of thing as a near blanket negative. I, as a player, disagree with that judgment. I like competing against the RNG gods.

[Untrustedlife]

Yeah, this has just turned into the NW_Kohaku and Untrustedlife Yells A Lot Hour.

Don't be unfair, im yelling alot aswell.

All of the Magics!

Such Magic

[fearlesslittletoaster]

That presumes there would be ways to engineer around the problem, and not, as most representations (including the one TOADY JUST GAVE) of the magic system would have it, simply having a text box pop up informing you that your fortress crumbled for no good reason because you were stupid enough to have a library.  Again, I point to the 2d game, where the game ended "unsatisfyingly" because you just have a percentage chance of instant game over with no chance to engineer around anything. 

I would have to disagree that there isn't a way to do this. All the design here is a bit up in the air I admit, but I think it could look something like this and work pretty well:

Library is created and researching "terrible secrets" or something is enabled as it would be off by default. So Urist McMagescholar decides he's going to try and learn some new magic. He get the job "PONDER THAT WHICH SHOULD NOT BE." The job can have a variety of outcomes, likely distributed along a curve just like item quality.

Great: Breakthrough, leading to increase in understanding and maybe a new ability or something.
Good: Skill gain, points added to pool that might lead to breakthrough
Neutral: Nothing happens.
Bad: Urist glimpses something bad get a strong negative thought.
Very Bad: Urist glimpses something really really bad, get a strong negative thought, and becomes incredibly incurious.
Even Worse: Urist goes instantly insane
Epic Failure: Urist goes instantly berserk
Getting interesting: Urist and everyone else in the library goes instantly berserk
Hilariously Bad: Everyone nearby gets a random syndrome
Catastrophic: Urist sees that which should not be. That which should not be sees Urist, likes what it sees, and comes to visit.
!!FUN!!: Urist becomes filled with joy and gets instant legendary skill in a new dance called "The Crimson Welcoming." He immediately goes to the tavern to lead the first and only performance of this unique and beautiful work of art...

[StupidElves]

So, with some of the myths stating that there's like, a tower or a road to the heavens, does this mean that we will eventually be able to travel to them as physical places and kill the gods? Because some of the gods tend to be jerks, and they need to be taken down a notch.

If we can kill gods, what will that do to the world? Will creatures cursed by the gods that are killed suddenly be cured by their deaths?

[vjmdhzgr]

I think there is another potential solution to the issue of taking injuries in different forms, which might not be quite as punishing as most people are thinking of, but would probably be easier and still be better than what we currently have. Basically, just keep injuries consistant in each form that don't get changed with transformation. If you transform into a weremammoth and get two legs cut off, then transform back to human then you'd still be a full human, but if you transform into a weremammoth again then you'll still be missing two legs. It's not the best solution, but i think it's the simplest one.

[Button]

Gaiz. Come on. This thread is for questions. Discussions & suggestions go in discussion & suggestion threads.

[Qmarx]

The myth generator demo showed you forcing the myths to include a race and a celestial object, and the myth generator seems to need to create the gift of death to justify nonimmortal races. 

Are there any plans to be able to force it to include a particular magic as well?  For instance, you write up a RAW for shooting fireballs and include it in the list of things.  Game reads the tags on it, and the myth generator includes something like with 'humans are spawned from the sun, so they can shoot fireballs', or 'celestial sparks hover above the ground, letting you carve fireball-shooting runestones',

[Shonai_Dweller]

The myth generator demo showed you forcing the myths to include a race and a celestial object, and the myth generator seems to need to create the gift of death to justify nonimmortal races. 

Are there any plans to be able to force it to include a particular magic as well?  For instance, you write up a RAW for shooting fireballs and include it in the list of things.  Game reads the tags on it, and the myth generator includes something like with 'humans are spawned from the sun, so they can shoot fireballs', or 'celestial sparks hover above the ground, letting you carve fireball-shooting runestones',

Questions for Toady in lime green, like this.

[Bumber]

The way I imagine it, we should have a location dedicated to the study and practice of magic, similar to the library. The overseer can decide who gets to use these areas, and what kind of magic is permitted in each.

Continuous use of magic that can cause ill effects on the fort would first produce warning signs, allowing the overseer/sheriff to enact a ban on that magic before it goes to far. Dwarves can break the law based on personality, so be careful who finds out about which arcane secrets. Certain magics might be less risky with better skilled mages, so you might allow your legendary wizards to continue even after random things in your fort have started bursting into flames. The cumulative effect of some magics might go away with time, while others might be more permanent. If you're lucky, you might have a spell for neutralizing magic changes, or the land might just be permanently scarred.

[DG]

Gaiz. Come on. This thread is for questions. Discussions & suggestions go in discussion & suggestion threads.

It's the (near) Future of the Fortress thread where we discuss the (near) Future of the Fortress and ask questions on current development*.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

The purpose of the thread is to discuss current developments

Magic is in the near future so it's entirely legitimate that they discuss it here and help every one become better informed on the topic. It's not NWK's or UnL's or PatL's fault that I don't have time to read it properly and so choose not to contribute, for example.

*Questions which largely boil down to suggestions on current developments but are tacitly tolerated so long as they are phrased as questions. FotF Jeopardy.

[NW_Kohaku]

I would have to disagree that there isn't a way to do this. All the design here is a bit up in the air I admit, but I think it could look something like this and work pretty well:

Yes, there are ways to do it well, those are ways that involve pushing magic into the physical space simulation, as I stated in that response.

The problem is that I apparently cannot repeat enough for people that there are some very obvious traps that people keep walking straight into, not the least of which being turning magic in fortress mode into a randomly-activated "game over button" that makes magic so massively unattractive nobody would ever want to use it.  For example, what you just produced falls under that definition of terrible ideas nobody would want to play:

Library is created and researching "terrible secrets" or something is enabled as it would be off by default. So Urist McMagescholar decides he's going to try and learn some new magic. He get the job "PONDER THAT WHICH SHOULD NOT BE." The job can have a variety of outcomes, likely distributed along a curve just like item quality.

Great: Breakthrough, leading to increase in understanding and maybe a new ability or something.
Good: Skill gain, points added to pool that might lead to breakthrough
Neutral: Nothing happens.
Bad: Urist glimpses something bad get a strong negative thought.
Very Bad: Urist glimpses something really really bad, get a strong negative thought, and becomes incredibly incurious.
Even Worse: Urist goes instantly insane
Epic Failure: Urist goes instantly berserk
Getting interesting: Urist and everyone else in the library goes instantly berserk
Hilariously Bad: Everyone nearby gets a random syndrome
Catastrophic: Urist sees that which should not be. That which should not be sees Urist, likes what it sees, and comes to visit.
!!FUN!!: Urist becomes filled with joy and gets instant legendary skill in a new dance called "The Crimson Welcoming." He immediately goes to the tavern to lead the first and only performance of this unique and beautiful work of art...

There is, everyone say it with me, now, no reason to ever use a system like this. There is no way for the benefits to outweigh the risks.  This is a sucker's bet.

And yes, sorry to everyone else if I have to keep saying this over and over, but apparently I need to sledgehammer the notion that turning fortress mode into a slot machine is a bad idea into everybody one by one.

[Random_Dragon]

And yes, sorry to everyone else if I have to keep saying this over and over, but apparently I need to sledgehammer the notion that turning fortress mode into a slot machine is a bad idea into everybody one by one.

Exactly. If we want to turn a fortress into a slot machine, that's what pressure plates and water logic gates are for.

[NW_Kohaku]

So, with some of the myths stating that there's like, a tower or a road to the heavens, does this mean that we will eventually be able to travel to them as physical places and kill the gods? Because some of the gods tend to be jerks, and they need to be taken down a notch.

If we can kill gods, what will that do to the world? Will creatures cursed by the gods that are killed suddenly be cured by their deaths?

The HFS is already a gateway to another dimension.  A gateway to the heavens would presumably be similar, except with all those Fun vault dwellers hanging around instead of clowns. (What, did you expect them to be singing choruses in togas?  This is the game where "good" means "unicorns will impale you for getting too close to their bubble grass".)

[NJW2000]

@nw

I... haven't bothered reading the whole discussion, but1 I think you might be confusing your own rather well thought out, practical playstyle with what other, less sensible people might do.

I mean, what does hfs add? Adamantine? Never as deadly as danger room training. Massive roasts? pffft.

I'm just not so sure balance or utility is key to df features.