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[Bumber]

I remember the first day care thread being far less... nice. Where's the use of magma to remove fat from dwarves?

All right, let's cut off their legs to force crutch-walking. They'll get maxed-out Agility and Endurance that way, even without weapon training, and crutches can be used in combat to train Misc. Object User. You'll probably have a few captured werebeasts by the time they grow up, so they could even get their legs back.

The patient must wear full metal armor...

[HmH]

I remember the first day care thread being far less... nice. Where's the use of magma to remove fat from dwarves?

All right, let's cut off their legs to force crutch-walking. They'll get maxed-out Agility and Endurance that way, even without weapon training, and crutches can be used in combat to train Misc. Object User. You'll probably have a few captured werebeasts by the time they grow up, so they could even get their legs back.

The patient must wear full metal armor...

That is optional. If we can accept the relatively high amount of casualties, we could use a similar design but limit the amount of weapon traps to one or two giant axe blades, which would yield us about a 35% chance of hitting the legs with one weapon component or 60% with two. The casualties are intended given that the original complaint was about insufficient brutality of the training course.

[Lord_lemonpie]

PTW

[Reelya]

Do kids even pick up crutches? Also, can they train Agi and End while standing still in a training cell? Needing to keep them moving around to train up their crutch skill / attributes sounds like a lot of micro-management, whereas flooding the cell in 4/7 water should also train up the same stats without micro.

Also, random chopping of body parts with serrated blades sounds too random to be effective. As far as I understand it only targets feet because they're unarmored body-parts. I think they'd be as likely to lose a hand or a head as a foot if they get slice up without body armor. So you might get 10% usable subjects out of that treatment. The other thread got 40% fatalities even with armor.

I'd need to see some evidence that this actually trains them up in the relevant stats while they're actually kids.

[greycat]

Do kids even pick up crutches?

Nobody will "pick up" a crutch that they need to use.  It has to be issued to them by a Designated Medical Professional.

[blue sam3]

Do kids even pick up crutches? Also, can they train Agi and End while standing still in a training cell? Needing to keep them moving around to train up their crutch skill / attributes sounds like a lot of micro-management, whereas flooding the cell in 4/7 water should also train up the same stats without micro.

Also, random chopping of body parts with serrated blades sounds too random to be effective. As far as I understand it only targets feet because they're unarmored body-parts. I think they'd be as likely to lose a hand or a head as a foot if they get slice up without body armor. So you might get 10% usable subjects out of that treatment. The other thread got 40% fatalities even with armor.

I'd need to see some evidence that this actually trains them up in the relevant stats while they're actually kids.

As far as getting them to move around goes: I've just got four rooms: one with food dumped in it, one with booze, one with a bed, and one with a meeting room (also the goblin-viewing and animal-exploding area), with corridors containing various training tools linking them, so that they keep moving through the different traps regularly

[Chevaleresse]

PTW

I need to stop describing the methods in here to non-DF players.

[Urist McVoyager]

A lot of them wouldn't understand and you're liable to eventually find someone who thinks we're dangerous or just plain insane and need locked up. 

[deepfreeze78]

PTW

I need to stop describing the methods in here to non-DF players.

The silly humans will never understand us.

[ImagoDeo]

I'm happy to return and find that the thread has more-or-less exploded in my absence. !!SCIENCE!! is proceeding apace, it would seem, despite the spotty updates and frequent crashes of various kinds.

I believe we have enough preliminary data to say that:

• It is unknown whether or not children are at high risk to danger room-type mechanics. Results have varied.
• Pathing seems to be a significant issue when attempting to train swimming/climbing.
• Modding in additional children seems to be a good way to enable large-scale testing.

I would add that dwarven eugenics is entirely unproven. So far as I have been able to tell, no dwarf inherits any traits of any kind from their parents. That may have changed from DF2012 to DF2014, but I doubt it. It would probably be in the patch notes. Eugenics is probably impossible.

I'm hoping to start with 40.05 tomorrow when Toady releases it and start a new fort for the purpose of testing. I'll probably disable invaders for the sake of science. I've been traveling for the last few weeks, which is why I've been mostly absent from the thread.

[Babylon]

This sounds like the sort of thing i need for my current pet project.  A dwarven sacred band of Thebes.  I might need to mod the orientation numbers a bit but a same sex version of dwarven eugenics could give me a squad of dwarves consisting entirely of same sex male couples and trained for combat since infancy.

[Broseph Stalin]

I'm happy to return and find that the thread has more-or-less exploded in my absence. !!SCIENCE!! is proceeding apace, it would seem, despite the spotty updates and frequent crashes of various kinds.

I believe we have enough preliminary data to say that:

• It is unknown whether or not children are at high risk to danger room-type mechanics. Results have varied.
• Pathing seems to be a significant issue when attempting to train swimming/climbing.
• Modding in additional children seems to be a good way to enable large-scale testing.

I would add that dwarven eugenics is entirely unproven. So far as I have been able to tell, no dwarf inherits any traits of any kind from their parents. That may have changed from DF2012 to DF2014, but I doubt it. It would probably be in the patch notes. Eugenics is probably impossible.

I'm hoping to start with 40.05 tomorrow when Toady releases it and start a new fort for the purpose of testing. I'll probably disable invaders for the sake of science. I've been traveling for the last few weeks, which is why I've been mostly absent from the thread.

What have you observed that indicates attributes are not being inherited?

[Gentlefish]

A good way to dispose of "accidents" might be just dumping the corpse down a hole. The kids would be able it handle it well enough if training has been going on long enough, and that removes the issue of how to clean up.

[ImagoDeo]

What have you observed that indicates attributes are not being inherited?

I have observed a definite lack of inherited traits. So far as I am aware, each child is simply assigned a random set of traits upon entrance into the world. Parentage has not made an immediately apparent difference in any case I have observed. If I could be proven wrong on this, I'd be very very happy, because then dwarven eugenics can really take off.

[wierd]

This would be consistent with previous research into eugenics in DF.

Rather than follow a heredity model, the game uses the statistics spread defined in the raws to create upper and lower boundings and percentile distributions for each type of stat, then "rolls" each dwarf upon creation.

This information is exclusively controlled there, or at least it was for the previous release. We did extensive testing on it.

The only things that get carried over genetically appear to be eye, skin, and hair color, and possibly the propensity toward being obese.