Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Girlinhat]

If filled with 4/7 water, they will remain asleep and will swim.

[Reelya]

Maybe 1x1 sleeping pits filled by bucket brigade then, with ramps for getting in and out. I take it they will actually go to sleep in the water, or does it need to be filled once they're asleep?

[Bumber]

Problem is that you don't want them to train social skills, dwarves with friends are tantrum spiral bait.

That's what the tragedy training is for.

A question on climbing: Will they climb if they have to?  If food is placed up on a pedestal, will they climb up to get it, or will they starve?

Toady has said they won't take jobs that require climb pathing. I would assume they'd go for it, but I'm not entirely sure what qualifies as a 'job'.

Bars, logs, and rough stone are the easiest to climb. Blocks are difficult and smoothed walls impossible. I don't suppose difficulty influences skill gain?

[Girlinhat]

Maybe 1x1 sleeping pits filled by bucket brigade then, with ramps for getting in and out. I take it they will actually go to sleep in the water, or does it need to be filled once they're asleep?

They won't go to sleep in water, but they will remain asleep in water.

Problem is that you don't want them to train social skills, dwarves with friends are tantrum spiral bait.

That's what the tragedy training is for.

A question on climbing: Will they climb if they have to?  If food is placed up on a pedestal, will they climb up to get it, or will they starve?

Toady has said they won't take jobs that require climb pathing. I would assume they'd go for it, but I'm not entirely sure what qualifies as a 'job'.

Rough stone, bars, and logs are the easiest to climb. I don't suppose difficulty influences skill gain?

Difficulty makes ZERO difference.  The time spent on a task is what determines gains.  Every frame that they're on a task, is gaining skill.  If they're hungry and tired and taking a long time to complete tasks, then they're gaining more because it takes longer.

So, how do dwarves climb, ever, if they don't take jobs that require climbing?

[Bumber]

So, how do dwarves climb, ever, if they don't take jobs that require climbing?

I've witnessed it during fleeing/attacking. They might conceivably use it to return to a meeting zone, but IDK.

[Staalo]

At least they won't try tor return to their burrows by climbing, even if the only route would be by that way.

I like the "swimming when sleeping" idea. It would be easy to build small individual rooms with auto-filling reservoirs of 7/7 water; these would then equalize into larger spaces of 4/7 water when students comes to sleep. Draining would be a challenge though...

I might build a system like that in the next iteration of the school; right now the dodge trap swimming pool design is proving crude but effective enough.

[Reelya]

Problem is that you don't want them to train social skills, dwarves with friends are tantrum spiral bait.

That's what the tragedy training is for.

A question on climbing: Will they climb if they have to?  If food is placed up on a pedestal, will they climb up to get it, or will they starve?

Toady has said they won't take jobs that require climb pathing. I would assume they'd go for it, but I'm not entirely sure what qualifies as a 'job'.

Bars, logs, and rough stone are the easiest to climb. Blocks are difficult and smoothed walls impossible. I don't suppose difficulty influences skill gain?

A good test would be to create a path to a job that includes a pressure plate that opens a hatch which then blocks the "ground" route forcing them to take a climbing path. Toady said they won't take a job that involves climbing, but a good question is whether they will path to an already taken job location if THAT requires climbing?

[Reelya]

At least they won't try tor return to their burrows by climbing, even if the only route would be by that way.

I like the "swimming when sleeping" idea. It would be easy to build small individual rooms with auto-filling reservoirs of 7/7 water; these would then equalize into larger spaces of 4/7 water when students comes to sleep. Draining would be a challenge though...

I might build a system like that in the next iteration of the school; right now the dodge trap swimming pool design is proving crude but effective enough.

Draining shouldn't be tricky. You need a 4x1 reservoir linked to a constant water source. Once the "on" lever is pulled a floodgate closes separating out 4 tiles of 7/7 water and opening a 1 tile drawbridge that lets the water into the bed chamber. on the other side of the bed chamber have a drainage path. There, you have another floodgate linked to the same lever as the other mechanisms. In total, 7 cells must be connected when the lever is in the "on" position. So you have the 4 reservoir tiles, 1 door space that opens, 1 bed, and 1 wall grate / fortification to stop the kid being washed into the drain area.

So "off" means both floodgates are open and the door is closed, and "on" closes both floodgates and opens the door. drainage and refilling are both achieved in the "off" state. Probably put an escape route in the drain area just in case kids get washed in there.

[blue sam3]

Have you read the thread where swimming can be trained during sleep?  A careful application of pressure plates should allow some amount of water control.  The main thing is trying to split 4/7 water out and dump it in a room, easily.  I have solutions for this, of course, but it's kind of fidgety.

A question on climbing: Will they climb if they have to?  If food is placed up on a pedestal, will they climb up to get it, or will they starve?

4/7 water to room is trivial: use the repeater method to fill a chamber of the same size as the room somewhere directly above it, floored with retracting bridges, turn repeater off (and seal off water input), and open said bridges. Might need a little bit of topping off - either make the upper chamber slightly oversized, top it off with buckets/direct water input, or having 1x1 water chambers for fine tuning without bucket brigades. Obviously, your entrance will have to be entered from above to avoid water losses / flooding of lower levels, so your flood chamber will probably need to be 2 levels above, or a slightly different shape.

[Staalo]

I like that. It wouldn't even have to be the same shape and size, just a volume of 7/7 water that would fill the room below to 4/7 height. That would even be doable without levers so it's suitable for dozens of separate rooms.

By the way, I remembered Mimodo's observations of training, well, Observer in this post. Following this I assigned two sparring squads to train in the school area and it seems the children are slowly gaining Observer. So that can be added to the list of trainable skills as well; I'll keep it up until graduations and see if it's possible to get to Legendary in that also. The watered-down danger room will also keep the soldiers in shape with it's constant gentle poking.

[Reelya]

I like that. It wouldn't even have to be the same shape and size, just a volume of 7/7 water that would fill the room below to 4/7 height. That would even be doable without levers so it's suitable for dozens of separate rooms.

That design has problems:

1) all bedrooms to be filled must be 7 squares in size. So it's not compact or targeted at the single bed level.

2) needs multiple levers per room.

you could link 1 lever to both input and output water channels, but if you want to reuse the same reservoir for multiple rooms it needs to be fillable while a room is still in use, hence you need the ability to seal the input valve whilst a room is still in use. So that's 2 levers per room. and you have to time flipping the "off" lever for the water so that the room doesn't overfill. So you also need to have a separate master input lever for the reservoir so you don't have to time it. But now you're up to THREE levers (2 per room (fill and empty) and 1 master water valve) for full control of each single fillable room.

So, with the shared reservoir idea the steps to fill "bedroom #1" would be:

1) close the mater reservoir floodgate lever. - seals input of reservoir
2) close bedroom #1 drain lever - which will stop the water from just flowing right out
3) open bedroom #1 floodgate lever - lets water flow into bedroom
4) close bedroom #1 floodgate lever - once water has settled to 4/7 level.
5) open the mater reservoir floodgate lever - to allow reservoir to refill

5 f***ing lever pulls to fill one bedroom and put the reservoir back into it's initial state. No thanks.

Here's my solution, which combines a reservoir with the bedroom in a modular fashion, and only needs 1 lever per room ever, and operation of each room is entirely independent:

Code: [Select]

#~# < water source
#X# < floodgate 1
#~#
#~# < reservoir area
#~#
#~#
#O# < 1x1 raising drawbridge
### < wall grate or fortification, minimize chance of kid getting squished by drawbridge
#B# < Bed
#X# < drainage floodgate
### < drain tunnel / grates

you hook 1 lever up to both floodgates and the drawbridge. "position 1" of lever opens both floodgates and raises drawbridge, simultaneously draining the bedroom and refilling the tank. "position 2" of the lever closes both floodgates and opens the drawbridge. This separates off 4 x 7/7 water which settles into 4/7 water in the 7 squares between the floodgates. Use floor grates in the drain area, and that can double as an escape tunnel for any kid silly enough to get stuck in there.

With the above set up, most of the area can be floored over so only the 1x1 bedroom is exposed with ramps to climb in and out, and it gives individual control of flooding and refilling each bed.

[Girlinhat]

Better solution:
Build a room which is 1x4 and fill it with water.  Add one floodgate.  Add a 1x2 bedroom attached to it.  To enter the bedroom, the dwarf must walk over a pressure plate, which enacts a short timer.  Given time to get into bed, the floodgate opens, and the 4x of 7/7 spill into a total area of 7 tiles, bringing the whole water level to 4/7, then the floodgate shuts and the 1x4 refills.  When the dwarf awakens, then door opening will let the water out, either into a drain or just into the floor.

A little bit of fluid logic is needed to achieve best results, but it shouldn't be terribly complicated compared to other things we're working on.

[Bumber]

At least they won't try tor return to their burrows by climbing, even if the only route would be by that way.

Do dwarves even attempt to return to their burrows? I thought they just stayed in them if they were already inside (or rather, they won't take jobs outside them.) Civilian alerts, maybe.

[Staalo]

Do dwarves even attempt to return to their burrows? I thought they just stayed in them if they were already inside (or rather, they won't take jobs outside them.) Civilian alerts, maybe.

Yes they do, when they stray off the burrow area for whatever reason. In .40.xx they also leave their burrows for short time, without any reason.

In earlier bugfix versions this seemed to be one of the primary causes for Dwarven Flying Syndrome, when a burrowed dwarf realized that he had outside his burrow and apparently  decided that the best way to get back was to jump around randomly, often into stone wall.

[vicwarrior]

is a 2x2 espace with a door on one side (locked) and glass on the other to a room where stuff gets gored and sometimes gladiators fight to "teach the students" and "entertain" them will be enough to keep the dogs stressed enough to ocassionally "train" the students?

Also if i line those 2x2 rooms looking into the middle room will keep the children from socializing with eachother (there is still a wall between them) ?