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Author Topic: Dwarf Fortress real-life material helper  (Read 19500 times)

Itnetlolor

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Re: Dwarf Fortress real-life material helper
« Reply #15 on: February 25, 2015, 11:48:26 am »

Heh, funny idea:
-Mine marshmallows (ore)
-Refine and forge marshmallows into toffee blades and such
-Build fortress out of a combination of marshmallows (as bricks) and toffee (walkways and bridges and such).
-Include a flavor (flux) to make peppermint bars (add a syndrome that lowers pain tolerance), and make vertical spikes. Give invaders a minty death.

Perfect for a Candyland mod or something.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2015, 11:53:10 am by Itnetlolor »
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Eldin00

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Re: Dwarf Fortress real-life material helper
« Reply #16 on: February 25, 2015, 12:50:51 pm »

Liking the javascript version of this. I'd used your python one before and considered writing a gui to build the JSON files to feed it, but now that you've provided a version with a gui, I doubt I'll bother.

Anyway, just wanted to say thanks for the tool.
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AceSV

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Re: Dwarf Fortress real-life material helper
« Reply #17 on: February 26, 2015, 02:42:56 pm »

Thanks for the Javascript version.  I tried it out, but I'm not sure I'm doing it right. 

I've seen this info for Cupronickel (C71500 or Cu70Ni30) on the forums a couple times:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I tried to use this data:  http://www.matweb.com/search/datasheet.aspx?matguid=1de470e1f95c442990e87658c7b6eb36&ckck=1  For bulk modulus, I used (3xCu + 1xNi)/4 and I used the "Elasticity Modulus" as the Young's Modulus. 

And I came up with: 

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Some of those numbers are waaaaaay off.  The IMPACT_ values are even superior to steel.  For all I know that might be true of C71500 Cupronickel, but it seems unlikely. 

EDIT: I also tried that site's numbers for Low Carbon Steel,which I think is supposed to be close to medieval steel and it gives numbers that are like 4x normal steel.  I think maybe the range for Ultimate Tensile Strength seems to be very big. 
« Last Edit: February 26, 2015, 02:57:26 pm by AceSV »
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Furry Fortress 3 The third saga unfurls.  Now with Ninja Frogs and Dogfish Pirates.

Putnam

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Re: Dwarf Fortress real-life material helper
« Reply #18 on: February 26, 2015, 03:27:13 pm »

Hmm. Actually, I think I know what's going on here. You want tensile yield strength, not ultimate tensile strength. I'll just set up the program to correct for that.

Hell, I'll also set it up to allow ultimate tensile strength as well so that the fracture values can be different than twice yield values.

Here's what I got with that in mind:

Code: [Select]
[INORGANIC:CUPRONICKEL]
    [USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:METAL_TEMPLATE]
    [STATE_NAME_ADJ:ALL_SOLID:cupronickel]
    [STATE_NAME_ADJ:LIQUID:molten cupronickel]
    [STATE_NAME_ADJ:GAS:boiling cupronickel]
    [DISPLAY_COLOR:0:7:1]
    [BUILD_COLOR:0:7:1]
    [MATERIAL_VALUE:10]
    [SPEC_HEAT:380]
    [MELTING_POINT:12232]
    [BOILING_POINT:14464]
    [SOLID_DENSITY:8940]
    [LIQUID_DENSITY:8940]
    [MOLAR_MASS:62089]
    [IMPACT_YIELD:420000]
    [IMPACT_FRACTURE:1554000]
    [IMPACT_STRAIN_AT_YIELD:323]
    [COMPRESSIVE_YIELD:420000]
    [COMPRESSIVE_FRACTURE:1554000]
    [COMPRESSIVE_STRAIN_AT_YIELD:323] bulk modulus 130 GPa
    [TENSILE_YIELD:120000]
    [TENSILE_FRACTURE:444000]
    [TENSILE_STRAIN_AT_YIELD:80] young's modulus 150 GPa
    [TORSION_YIELD:120000]
    [TORSION_FRACTURE:888000]
    [TORSION_STRAIN_AT_YIELD:80]
    [SHEAR_YIELD:120000]
    [SHEAR_FRACTURE:444000]
    [SHEAR_STRAIN_AT_YIELD:211] shear modulus 57 GPa
    [BENDING_YIELD:120000]
    [BENDING_FRACTURE:444000]
    [BENDING_STRAIN_AT_YIELD:211]
    [MAX_EDGE:10000]
    [STATE_COLOR:ALL:SILVER]

EDIT: Actually, with this process, it seems like we can make materials that are more accurate than default. Here's iron with yield and ultimate being considered separate:

Code: [Select]
[INORGANIC:IRON]
    [USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:METAL_TEMPLATE]
    [STATE_NAME_ADJ:ALL_SOLID:iron]
    [STATE_NAME_ADJ:LIQUID:molten iron]
    [STATE_NAME_ADJ:GAS:boiling iron]
    [DISPLAY_COLOR:0:7:1]
    [BUILD_COLOR:0:7:1]
    [MATERIAL_VALUE:10]
    [SPEC_HEAT:450]
    [MELTING_POINT:12768]
    [BOILING_POINT:15152]
    [SOLID_DENSITY:7850]
    [LIQUID_DENSITY:6980]
    [MOLAR_MASS:55485]
    [IMPACT_YIELD:620000]
    [IMPACT_FRACTURE:1240000]
    [IMPACT_STRAIN_AT_YIELD:365]
    [COMPRESSIVE_YIELD:620000]
    [COMPRESSIVE_FRACTURE:1240000]
    [COMPRESSIVE_STRAIN_AT_YIELD:365] bulk modulus 170 GPa
    [TENSILE_YIELD:155000]
    [TENSILE_FRACTURE:310000]
    [TENSILE_STRAIN_AT_YIELD:73] young's modulus 211 GPa
    [TORSION_YIELD:155000]
    [TORSION_FRACTURE:310000]
    [TORSION_STRAIN_AT_YIELD:73]
    [SHEAR_YIELD:248000]
    [SHEAR_FRACTURE:496000]
    [SHEAR_STRAIN_AT_YIELD:302] shear modulus 82 GPa
    [BENDING_YIELD:155000]
    [BENDING_FRACTURE:310000]
    [BENDING_STRAIN_AT_YIELD:73]
    [MAX_EDGE:10000]
    [STATE_COLOR:ALL:SILVER]
« Last Edit: February 26, 2015, 05:14:43 pm by Putnam »
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AceSV

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Re: Dwarf Fortress real-life material helper
« Reply #19 on: February 26, 2015, 07:43:45 pm »

I did Nickel: 

Code: [Select]
[INORGANIC:NICKEL]
    [USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:METAL_TEMPLATE]
    [STATE_NAME_ADJ:ALL_SOLID:Nickel]
    [STATE_NAME_ADJ:LIQUID:molten Nickel]
    [STATE_NAME_ADJ:GAS:boiling Nickel]
    [DISPLAY_COLOR:0:7:1]
    [BUILD_COLOR:0:7:1]
    [MATERIAL_VALUE:10]
    [SPEC_HEAT:440]
    [MELTING_POINT:12619]
    [BOILING_POINT:12971]
    [SOLID_DENSITY:8800]
    [LIQUID_DENSITY:8880]
    [MOLAR_MASS:58690]
    [IMPACT_YIELD:206500]
    [IMPACT_FRACTURE:413000]
    [IMPACT_STRAIN_AT_YIELD:115]
    [COMPRESSIVE_YIELD:206500]
    [COMPRESSIVE_FRACTURE:413000]
    [COMPRESSIVE_STRAIN_AT_YIELD:115] bulk modulus 180 GPa
    [TENSILE_YIELD:59000]
    [TENSILE_FRACTURE:118000]
    [TENSILE_STRAIN_AT_YIELD:29] young's modulus 207 GPa
    [TORSION_YIELD:59000]
    [TORSION_FRACTURE:118000]
    [TORSION_STRAIN_AT_YIELD:29]
    [SHEAR_YIELD:59000]
    [SHEAR_FRACTURE:118000]
    [SHEAR_STRAIN_AT_YIELD:78] shear modulus 76 GPa
    [BENDING_YIELD:59000]
    [BENDING_FRACTURE:118000]
    [BENDING_STRAIN_AT_YIELD:29]
    [MAX_EDGE:10000]
    [STATE_COLOR:ALL:]

It came out very different from Toady's nickel.  I wanted to see what a 50/50 ferronickel or nickel-steel alloy, but I either can't find mechanical properties or they are alloyed with lots of chromium.  I might cheat and say the dwarves get chromium from their beards.  Silver-Nickel (Ag-Ni, not Nickel Silver) is also on my plate, but it'll have to wait. 

It's probably worth mentioning that any kind of modern metal, even "pure" metals, will be different from pre-1400s metal because our methods of extraction are different. 
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could God in fact send a kea to steal Excalibur and thereby usurp the throne of the Britons? 
Furry Fortress 3 The third saga unfurls.  Now with Ninja Frogs and Dogfish Pirates.

Putnam

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Re: Dwarf Fortress real-life material helper
« Reply #20 on: February 26, 2015, 09:12:21 pm »

I updated the program with some ludicrous values that may or may not actually exist? I mean, they're never measured, it seems.

Eldin00

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Re: Dwarf Fortress real-life material helper
« Reply #21 on: February 27, 2015, 04:13:29 pm »

I'm using the JavaScript version of this tool to re-compute all of the metals in Vanilla DF for which I can find published physical properties, along with adjusting reactions for a some alloys to give formulas more in line with their real-world equivalents, as some of the DF formulas neither resemble any widely used modern or historic alloy, and some resemble an entirely different alloy than the one they are named for. In the raw with the properties I'm documenting most of my sources for the properties so that people can check them if they like. I'll post a link to the resulting raws once I'm finished, if anyone is interested.

note that everything in my raws was computed after the ultimate/yield tensile strength were split apart, but quite a few were done before Putnam added the other ultimate/yield strengths.

Edit--
first draft of my updated metals and updated reactions for making some alloys can be found at http://dffd.bay12games.com/file.php?id=10641
« Last Edit: March 05, 2015, 02:50:59 am by Eldin00 »
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Henny

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Re: Dwarf Fortress real-life material helper
« Reply #22 on: March 05, 2015, 10:17:02 am »

Here's how titanium came out:

Code: [Select]
[INORGANIC:TITANIUM]
    [USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:METAL_TEMPLATE]
    [STATE_NAME_ADJ:ALL_SOLID:titanium]
    [STATE_NAME_ADJ:LIQUID:molten titanium]
    [STATE_NAME_ADJ:GAS:boiling titanium]
    [DISPLAY_COLOR:0:7:1]
    [BUILD_COLOR:0:7:1]
    [MATERIAL_VALUE:30]
    [SPEC_HEAT:520]
    [MELTING_POINT:13002]
    [BOILING_POINT:15917]
    [SOLID_DENSITY:4507]
    [LIQUID_DENSITY:4140]
    [MOLAR_MASS:47867]
    [IMPACT_YIELD:490000]
    [IMPACT_FRACTURE:980000]
    [IMPACT_STRAIN_AT_YIELD:506]
    [COMPRESSIVE_YIELD:490000]
    [COMPRESSIVE_FRACTURE:980000]
    [COMPRESSIVE_STRAIN_AT_YIELD:506] bulk modulus 96.8 GPa
    [TENSILE_YIELD:140000]
    [TENSILE_FRACTURE:280000]
    [TENSILE_STRAIN_AT_YIELD:127] young's modulus 110 GPa
    [TORSION_YIELD:140000]
    [TORSION_FRACTURE:280000]
    [TORSION_STRAIN_AT_YIELD:127]
    [SHEAR_YIELD:140000]
    [SHEAR_FRACTURE:280000]
    [SHEAR_STRAIN_AT_YIELD:326] shear modulus 43 GPa
    [BENDING_YIELD:140000]
    [BENDING_FRACTURE:280000]
    [BENDING_STRAIN_AT_YIELD:127]
    [MAX_EDGE:10000]
    [STATE_COLOR:ALL:SILVER]
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Putnam

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Re: Dwarf Fortress real-life material helper
« Reply #23 on: March 05, 2015, 03:24:01 pm »

Wow, are you sure the tensile yield and fracture are that low? I would go with higher estimates, since iron seems to.

Eldin00

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Re: Dwarf Fortress real-life material helper
« Reply #24 on: March 05, 2015, 04:18:32 pm »

Those tensile values for titanium are high according to MatWeb, but low by every other source I've looked at.
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Henny

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Re: Dwarf Fortress real-life material helper
« Reply #25 on: March 05, 2015, 04:53:55 pm »

Well, I think titanium is kind of mediocre as a cutting weapon in real life. Should perhaps be higher for gameplay reasons.
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Putnam

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Re: Dwarf Fortress real-life material helper
« Reply #26 on: March 07, 2015, 12:16:11 am »

Updated with a "realistic IMPACT values" switch.

CaptainMcClellan

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Re: Dwarf Fortress real-life material helper
« Reply #27 on: March 11, 2015, 10:52:05 pm »

PTW plus thanks Putnam.

AceSV

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Re: Dwarf Fortress real-life material helper
« Reply #28 on: March 16, 2015, 10:07:10 pm »

Well, I think titanium is kind of mediocre as a cutting weapon in real life. Should perhaps be higher for gameplay reasons.

Titanium is terrible at cutting.  When you hear that something is made of "titanium" it usually means titanium-steel alloy.  Titanium's claim to fame is its light weight, it's not especially strong or good for anything else. 


I was thinking about super-metals, and realized that this one is actually realistic:

Code: [Select]
        [STATE_NAME_ADJ:ALL_SOLID:Osir]
    [STATE_NAME_ADJ:LIQUID:molten Osir]
    [STATE_NAME_ADJ:GAS:boiling Osir]
    [DISPLAY_COLOR:0:7:1]
    [BUILD_COLOR:0:7:1]
    [MATERIAL_VALUE:]
    [SPEC_HEAT:130]
    [MELTING_POINT:24900]
    [BOILING_POINT:28196]
    [SOLID_DENSITY:22575]
    [LIQUID_DENSITY:22575]
    [MOLAR_MASS:191223]
    [IMPACT_YIELD:1750000]
    [IMPACT_FRACTURE:3500000]
    [IMPACT_STRAIN_AT_YIELD:379]
    [COMPRESSIVE_YIELD:1750000]
    [COMPRESSIVE_FRACTURE:3500000]
    [COMPRESSIVE_STRAIN_AT_YIELD:379] bulk modulus 462 GPa
    [TENSILE_YIELD:500000]
    [TENSILE_FRACTURE:1000000]
    [TENSILE_STRAIN_AT_YIELD:89] young's modulus 560 GPa
    [TORSION_YIELD:500000]
    [TORSION_FRACTURE:1000000]
    [TORSION_STRAIN_AT_YIELD:225]
    [SHEAR_YIELD:500000]
    [SHEAR_FRACTURE:1000000]
    [SHEAR_STRAIN_AT_YIELD:225] shear modulus 222 GPa
    [BENDING_YIELD:500000]
    [BENDING_FRACTURE:1000000]
    [BENDING_STRAIN_AT_YIELD:225]
    [MAX_EDGE:10000]
    [STATE_COLOR:ALL:BLUE]

Osir is Os-Ir, an alloy of Osmium and Iridium, the densest elements.  They are rare on Earth but common enough in space, so it's believed that planet Earth actually has a lot of Osmium and Iridium that sunk deep below the crust when the planet was still molten.  Gift wrapped in the ground for dwarves to find!  Osmium and Iridium are more typically found as Os-Ir alloys because otherwise they oxidize.  My uneducated guess is that as an alloy, Os-Ir is stronger than Osmium or Iridium would be alone (and oxidized Osmium is insanely poisonous), so there's no reason for the dwarves to split it up.  I used the average of Osmium and Iridium for the physical properties, but I got tired of it for the mechanical properties and switched to just Osmium's statistics which were usually better.  Colored blue for fantasy fun. 

The ultimate tensile strength is 1 million, which sounds like a lot. 
« Last Edit: March 16, 2015, 10:36:59 pm by AceSV »
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could God in fact send a kea to steal Excalibur and thereby usurp the throne of the Britons? 
Furry Fortress 3 The third saga unfurls.  Now with Ninja Frogs and Dogfish Pirates.

AceSV

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Re: Dwarf Fortress real-life material helper
« Reply #29 on: March 16, 2015, 10:28:21 pm »

And Tungsten Carbide, WRAAAAH:

Code: [Select]
    [STATE_NAME_ADJ:ALL_SOLID:Tungsten Carbide]
    [STATE_NAME_ADJ:LIQUID:molten Tungsten Carbide]
    [STATE_NAME_ADJ:GAS:boiling Tungsten Carbide]
    [DISPLAY_COLOR:0:7:1]
    [BUILD_COLOR:0:7:1]
    [MATERIAL_VALUE:50]
    [SPEC_HEAT:200]
    [MELTING_POINT:15013]
    [BOILING_POINT:20800]
    [SOLID_DENSITY:15630]
    [LIQUID_DENSITY:15630]
    [MOLAR_MASS:195850]
    [IMPACT_YIELD:595000]
    [IMPACT_FRACTURE:1190000]
    [IMPACT_STRAIN_AT_YIELD:136]
    [COMPRESSIVE_YIELD:595000]
    [COMPRESSIVE_FRACTURE:1190000]
    [COMPRESSIVE_STRAIN_AT_YIELD:136] bulk modulus 439 GPa
    [TENSILE_YIELD:170000]
    [TENSILE_FRACTURE:340000]
    [TENSILE_STRAIN_AT_YIELD:31] young's modulus 550 GPa
    [TORSION_YIELD:170000]
    [TORSION_FRACTURE:340000]
    [TORSION_STRAIN_AT_YIELD:63]
    [SHEAR_YIELD:170000]
    [SHEAR_FRACTURE:340000]
    [SHEAR_STRAIN_AT_YIELD:63] shear modulus 270 GPa
    [BENDING_YIELD:170000]
    [BENDING_FRACTURE:340000]
    [BENDING_STRAIN_AT_YIELD:63]
    [MAX_EDGE:10000]
    [STATE_COLOR:ALL:BLACK]

Black for fantasy fun.  If any metal has a chance of being better than steel in real life, it's Tungsten Carbide.  (Steel is Iron Carbide)  I made the Tensile Yield half of the Ultimate Tensile Yield, since that was the number I found. 

I guess I should make tungsten too:
Code: [Select]
    [STATE_NAME_ADJ:ALL_SOLID:Tungsten]
    [STATE_NAME_ADJ:LIQUID:molten Tungsten]
    [STATE_NAME_ADJ:GAS:boiling Tungsten]
    [DISPLAY_COLOR:0:7:1]
    [BUILD_COLOR:0:7:1]
    [MATERIAL_VALUE:20]
    [SPEC_HEAT:134]
    [MELTING_POINT:16160]
    [BOILING_POINT:21165]
    [SOLID_DENSITY:19250]
    [LIQUID_DENSITY:19250]
    [MOLAR_MASS:]
    [IMPACT_YIELD:3293500]
    [IMPACT_FRACTURE:6587000]
    [IMPACT_STRAIN_AT_YIELD:1062]
    [COMPRESSIVE_YIELD:3293500]
    [COMPRESSIVE_FRACTURE:6587000]
    [COMPRESSIVE_STRAIN_AT_YIELD:1062] bulk modulus 310 GPa
    [TENSILE_YIELD:941000]
    [TENSILE_FRACTURE:1510000]
    [TENSILE_STRAIN_AT_YIELD:229] young's modulus 411 GPa
    [TORSION_YIELD:941000]
    [TORSION_FRACTURE:1882000]
    [TORSION_STRAIN_AT_YIELD:584]
    [SHEAR_YIELD:941000]
    [SHEAR_FRACTURE:1882000]
    [SHEAR_STRAIN_AT_YIELD:584] shear modulus 161 GPa
    [BENDING_YIELD:941000]
    [BENDING_FRACTURE:1510000]
    [BENDING_STRAIN_AT_YIELD:584]
    [MAX_EDGE:10000]
    [STATE_COLOR:ALL:GRAY]
« Last Edit: March 20, 2015, 02:59:53 pm by AceSV »
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could God in fact send a kea to steal Excalibur and thereby usurp the throne of the Britons? 
Furry Fortress 3 The third saga unfurls.  Now with Ninja Frogs and Dogfish Pirates.
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