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Poll

Unused poll, what should it be used for?

Dancing!
- 2 (28.6%)
Coat rack!
- 3 (42.9%)
Telephone!
- 1 (14.3%)
Vaulting!
- 1 (14.3%)

Total Members Voted: 7


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Author Topic: Area Samarkand: I Set My Stuff Here, Next to a [POLL]  (Read 7209 times)

Samarkand

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Area Samarkand: I Set My Stuff Here, Next to a [POLL]
« on: July 18, 2014, 05:16:51 pm »


I'll be dumping ideas and the like here. I'd love suggestions for what ideas to develop, and in three weeks I will for sure be starting at least one new game. Until then I'll be collecting resources and ideas here to use in future games, or which pertain to games I'm already running.

When I'm not doing game stuff I might make this page look nicer. :P

Games I'm In:
Exiles of the Void
History: the Minimalist RTD
Vanaard Corp Mistakes
The Cloud
Outlands 2 RTD

Games I'm GMing:

Ideas:
Spoiler: Machiavellian SG (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Islands? (click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: July 19, 2014, 10:08:30 am by Samarkand »
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Samarkand

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Re: Area Samarkand: I Set My Stuff Here
« Reply #1 on: July 18, 2014, 05:17:20 pm »

Reserved.
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Samarkand

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Re: Area Samarkand: I Set My Stuff Here
« Reply #2 on: July 18, 2014, 05:18:13 pm »

Also mine...
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The Froggy Ninja

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Re: Area Samarkand: I Set My Stuff Here
« Reply #3 on: July 18, 2014, 08:09:41 pm »

It would be cool to have a game set in the valley from the perspectives of one of the tribal races (I suggest Dryads)

BlitzDungeoneer

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Re: Area Samarkand: I Set My Stuff Here
« Reply #4 on: July 19, 2014, 09:07:59 am »

Ptw
Also, the Machiavellian SG sounds cool.

That's 3 areas so far that I know about. AREA GUNIN, AREA BLITZ and now Area Samarkand. Are there any I don't know about?
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PrivateNomad

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Re: Area Samarkand: I Set My Stuff Here
« Reply #5 on: July 19, 2014, 09:29:02 am »

Inb4 Area Nomad

Yoink

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Re: Area Samarkand: I Set My Stuff Here
« Reply #6 on: July 19, 2014, 09:30:11 am »

Now I want an area.
I had a thread for my newbie DF questions years ago, does that count? :P
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BlitzDungeoneer

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Re: Area Samarkand: I Set My Stuff Here
« Reply #7 on: July 19, 2014, 09:31:45 am »

Now I want an area.
I had a thread for my newbie DF questions years ago, does that count? :P
No. Maybe. Possibly.
Give me a link.
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Samarkand

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Re: Area Samarkand: I Set My Stuff Here
« Reply #8 on: July 19, 2014, 09:55:58 am »

It would be cool to have a game set in the valley from the perspectives of one of the tribal races (I suggest Dryads)
Sorry, but too many simultaneous games in one universe leads to a lot of crossing. Maybe after I bring Roll to Innovate to an end.

Hooray for people expressing interest. There's a poll up to see interest in what.
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Harry Baldman

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Re: Area Samarkand: I Set My Stuff Here, Next to a [POLL]
« Reply #9 on: July 19, 2014, 11:34:33 am »

The Machiavellian SG sounds good in theory, but I strongly doubt it would make a particularly fun game, especially if it's an SG.

First of all, "complex political environment" is not something you can just have in a game, it's something that you need to develop, otherwise it doesn't really work. This is because of several reasons - firstly, if you put it in there, it needs to be one of two things - populated by NPCs or populated by players.
  • If it's populated by NPCs, you get the issue where the political environment becomes shallow - try as you might, you're still one person, and realistically simulating a purportedly complex political environment requires that there be many different (both in personality and in goals) characters, all vying and competing against one another, which one GM is simply incapable of doing to a convincing level without massively multiplying the workload and wracking their brains to the limit.
  • If it's populated by other players, the political situation has the potential to eventually become complex, but initially they're all just people who've just come into the setting without a real (that is to say, one that isn't pure fluff that reflects any sort of player competence or agency) past without any experience at what they're currently doing. If you get lucky, things will develop into a properly complex political environment, but this hinges on the game's success in the first place.
Secondly, the game's basic premise, if done faithfully, is completely unsuitable for a suggestion game simply because it's implausible that the suggester base groupthink could play it in a competent or compelling way, due to the democratic process is not known for its quick and dynamic decision-making abilities. The creativity and adaptability of a single person is quite beyond a larger group of the same. To say nothing of the Machiavelli levels of humor that having a game inspired by The Prince being run by democracy of all things creates. And even if somebody in the player base comes up with a clever plan of some kind, it needs the support of the groupthink entity, which robs it of some of its player agency, and if it succeeds, it doesn't really benefit the player who came up with it in any way. In suggestion games, actually fun plotting and execution of plans cannot physically be done.

Thirdly, a complex political environment is vastly less interesting than you'd guess from the name, similarly to the running and advancement of a merchant house. It's a fun thing to mention as happening, not so much to actually deal with. Especially if the game's a Renaissance Italy period piece, which tend to be depressingly boring simply because they feel like they've been pretty much been done to death after not having been particularly interesting in the first place. A suggestion game carries the additional problem that it, by necessity of the format, progresses slowly at best and has few payoffs when compared with the time invested.

In conclusion, I can't help but feel that the interest behind the idea is largely because people look too much at the words contained within it (the look of words such as "Machiavellian", "complex political environment", "ruthless action" and other similar ones is no doubt appealing, but they're really just glorified buzzwords when you think about them) rather than their implications.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2014, 11:46:31 am by Harry Baldman »
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BlitzDungeoneer

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Re: Area Samarkand: I Set My Stuff Here, Next to a [POLL]
« Reply #10 on: July 19, 2014, 11:43:29 am »

Actually, now that I properly read the Kurchil's Children OP, changing my vote to that.
It was originally on the Machiavellian SG, by the way.
Probably not gonna be able to enter, due to these things almost invariably starting when I'm asleep, and by the time I'm awake it's already started.
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Samarkand

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Re: Area Samarkand: I Set My Stuff Here, Next to a [POLL]
« Reply #11 on: July 19, 2014, 12:12:35 pm »

The Machiavellian SG sounds good in theory, but I strongly doubt it would make a particularly fun game, especially if it's an SG.

First of all, "complex political environment" is not something you can just have in a game, it's something that you need to develop, otherwise it doesn't really work. This is because of several reasons - firstly, if you put it in there, it needs to be one of two things - populated by NPCs or populated by players.
  • If it's populated by NPCs, you get the issue where the political environment becomes shallow - try as you might, you're still one person, and realistically simulating a purportedly complex political environment requires that there be many different (both in personality and in goals) characters, all vying and competing against one another, which one GM is simply incapable of doing to a convincing level without massively multiplying the workload and wracking their brains to the limit.
  • If it's populated by other players, the political situation has the potential to eventually become complex, but initially they're all just people who've just come into the setting without a real (that is to say, one that isn't pure fluff that reflects any sort of player competence or agency) past without any experience at what they're currently doing. If you get lucky, things will develop into a properly complex political environment, but this hinges on the game's success in the first place.
Secondly, the game's basic premise, if done faithfully, is completely unsuitable for a suggestion game simply because it's implausible that the suggester base groupthink could play it in a competent or compelling way, due to the democratic process is not known for its quick and dynamic decision-making abilities. The creativity and adaptability of a single person is quite beyond a larger group of the same. To say nothing of the Machiavelli levels of humor that having a game inspired by The Prince being run by democracy of all things creates. And even if somebody in the player base comes up with a clever plan of some kind, it needs the support of the groupthink entity, which robs it of some of its player agency, and if it succeeds, it doesn't really benefit the player who came up with it in any way. In suggestion games, actually fun plotting and execution of plans cannot physically be done.

Thirdly, a complex political environment is vastly less interesting than you'd guess from the name, similarly to the running and advancement of a merchant house. It's a fun thing to mention as happening, not so much to actually deal with. Especially if the game's a Renaissance Italy period piece, which tend to be depressingly boring simply because they feel like they've been pretty much been done to death after not having been particularly interesting in the first place. A suggestion game carries the additional problem that it, by necessity of the format, progresses slowly at best and has few payoffs when compared with the time invested.

In conclusion, I can't help but feel that the interest behind the idea is largely because people look too much at the words contained within it (the look of words such as "Machiavellian", "complex political environment", "ruthless action" and other similar ones is no doubt appealing, but they're really just glorified buzzwords when you think about them) rather than their implications.
Delicious feedback. I'm sated.

I agree with you on the tension between having player houses and NPC houses. I initially went with NPC because multiple players doing secret things would be hard to keep terribly secret. But I think you're also right that intrigue is something that is difficult to simulate with a single person writing all of the actions.

I'm not sure I agree that a suggestion game would be entirely unsuited; I think there are a lot of players out there who would discuss and formulate plans that they would then maintain some fidelity to. Sort of like the fact that a minimalist RTD can in fact attract serious roleplayers.

I would not do a period game, I'm more attached to fantasy stuff, which would hopefully add a little bit of variety. Also, I object to the characterization of this period as boring.

I agree with you that the description of that particular game was a bit more buzzwordy than the others, which may contribute to its success in the poll so far. Although I object to Machiavellian as a buzzword. In that case it is in fact a rich description of the purpose of the game. I think that The Prince is an incredibly complex work that holds a lot more meaning than it appears on the surface, and that the problem of dirty hands lends itself perfectly to a game with a system in place to punish and reward both what an action is and how it appears.

This is valuable in terms of me trying to formulate what the game would be, and I'll probably be looking back at this post frequently. Thanks for your advice/critique!

Actually, now that I properly read the Kurchil's Children OP, changing my vote to that.
It was originally on the Machiavellian SG, by the way.
Probably not gonna be able to enter, due to these things almost invariably starting when I'm asleep, and by the time I'm awake it's already started.
Because I'd be looking for in depth characters I wouldn't do FCFS, so you'd probably have more than a few hours to get a character in. BTW, if this option gets the most support then I'd probably do a lot of polling to see if people want the same world and races, or new ones, and if the original area works well. We could keep as much or change as much as makes a good game.
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BlitzDungeoneer

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Re: Area Samarkand: I Set My Stuff Here, Next to a [POLL]
« Reply #12 on: July 19, 2014, 12:16:47 pm »

If you move around my vote, Kurchil gets 4 and Machiavellian gets 3.
I can just hear the response....
*Thank you, Captain Obvious.*
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Samarkand

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Re: Area Samarkand: I Set My Stuff Here, Next to a [POLL]
« Reply #13 on: July 19, 2014, 12:17:52 pm »

If you move around my vote, Kurchil gets 4 and Machiavellian gets 3.
I can just hear the response....
*Thank you, Captain Obvious.*
Oh! I had assumed you had moved your own vote. Cause you can do that, you know. Hit remove vote and then revote.
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BlitzDungeoneer

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Re: Area Samarkand: I Set My Stuff Here, Next to a [POLL]
« Reply #14 on: July 19, 2014, 12:20:05 pm »

If you move around my vote, Kurchil gets 4 and Machiavellian gets 3.
I can just hear the response....
*Thank you, Captain Obvious.*
Oh! I had assumed you had moved your own vote. Cause you can do that, you know. Hit remove vote and then revote.
It's at times like these that I remember that I'm still a newb in these forum.
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