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[therahedwig]

The problem is not actually fliers though, but rather that the neighbouring code is broken.

Someone did a test where they noticed that as they moved the cursor around the game seemed to pick neighbours randomly.

There's also another weirdness with Dark Fortresses having way too many inhabitants. And of course, undead loyalty being screwy.

All have been reported, so you can help out by preparing saves.

[dexxy]

Things were quiet. Too quiet. Militia commander Urist scanned the "Others" unit list, and detected a badger. The badger was in the top of a tree to the east.

Urist sent the army out to defeat the vicious invading badger, but they did not attack. The woodcutters later moved into the area, following the policy of "cut down all them trees they are nothing but trouble".

When the woodcutters got near the badger's tree, the badger became enraged. The army moved into the area just in case an enraged badger might hurt some woodcutters.

Once the badger's tree was cut down, there was a sudden explosion of 10 terrified badgers that ran in every direction.

Therefore, it seems that it's not just fliers that are causing trouble. It's also the TREES that are TRAPPING BADGERS.

Cut down all the trees. It's the only way to be sure!

[Ataman]

Just a sidenote: My birds never got stuck in trees. Most of the time they get stuck about 5 z-levels above anything else. And that's when wildlife stops happening.

So yes, we don't know if the [FLIER] actually causes the bugs with invaders but we can be certain that something related to [FLIER] causes it.
Since removing [FLIER] fixes the whole thing completely.
Cutting all the trees does not.

[Showbiz]

How to remove the [FLIER] exactly?

[Deboche]

use notepad++, it has a search and replace tool, just use the filter ".txt" so it doesn't edit the .exe file as well

[Showbiz]

Ah, of course!   Thanks!

[Dwarfu]

Okay guys, a summary:

7739: Hostile sites appear to be lost from contact, resulting in lack of fort invasions
7570: Undead invaders do not path to fortress
6972: Kobolds and goblins do not appear in the civilizations list
6737: Ravens stuck in mid air (prevents invasions?)

Ataman, I've updated #6737 with the potential to prevent invasions.
I've also linked samanto's FoTF question & Toady's answer in #7739.
Does this summary cover what is discussed in this thread?

Please provide saves, preferably in the latest version (40.06).

[SelcouthBadger]

I'm overjoyed that others have noticed this as well, I just thought I had an incredibly boring fort so I didn't mention it for a while. When my second fort was all mussed up I posted a bug report which was marked as a duplicate and following the rabbit hole led me here. I get forgotten beasts regularly and had one werebeast but no Titans, no kobolds, and certainly no gobbos. Also, all animals (minus a coati or two) have stopped entering my map. I'm thinking about removing the [FLIER] tags (especially since I've got some wonky Giant Crows on my map) but I'll probably just wait for the bug fix and copy the save.

What's the point of my redundant weapon traps and well-trained militia if I can't get some use out of them?

[Ataman]

@Dwarfu
Thank you very much for looking into it at Mantis! Yes it covers the issue very well.
I'm currently at work but I'll start a new Vanilla 40.06 world as soon as I get home and provide a save immediately after this bug occurs.

EDIT: I started a new world during my lunch break and after 10 minutes it happened already.
http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=9292
Here's the file, I'll link it to the bugtracker as well.

2 Eagles on the U screen. One is stuck mid-air (didn't check the other).
Playing this save should result in 0 invaders.

For further analysis the [FLIER] should be removed from the save with Notepad++ (or similar) and then the save should run for a while. I provided a minimal fortress which should survive till the first ambush. (The still probably needs new orders).

[Deboche]

It worries me that the main issue still hasn't been pointed out in Mantis. I've removed the flyer tags from the last 2 versions of DF and I've started a new fort in .06 and I've still had no invasions. At least Toady said he'd look into it.

Two forts ago, I had over 100 dwarves and almost 1 mil worth and in this new one, I've established pretty well and still no invasions, just one forgotten beast.

[celem]

This has been pointed out.  Thats what they've been saying this last page.

The [FLIER] bug is not the direct cause of no invasions, and has now been properly registered as separate on the bug-tracker.  Toady has acknowledged the difference.

The flier bug causes fliers to not path and means they tie up wild animal slots preventing new *animals* entering the map.  Removing it causes them to walk and they leave as normal.  They may get stuck up trees by climbing like any animal, thats a seperate issue with workarounds known.

While it may or may not be a factor in the lack of invaders beyond 1 goblin squad very early, it is not the direct cause of the invader bug and removing the tags is not a fix.  You will get FBs and were's, not invader sentients.  Have not tried provoking seiges through caravans but it may well be broken if it's using the same code as hostile invaders, which makes sense thinking about how groups move on the world map in 40_xx

Odd point is that I have seen a few kobold snatcher/thief style things.  Outcasts maybe.

[therahedwig]

Interestingly, on the bugtracker Urist Davinci noticed something:

*In a new generated world, the neighbouring bug is everywhere on embark.

*Go into legends mode and back ti embark again, and the bug is gone.

*Now you get sieges.

*HOWEVER, the moment you close the program, the fix is reverted, so no sieges.

So, probably, there's something not loading properly in fortress mode that does get loaded properly by legends mode. However, to be certain we'd need to verify this. So try to run a fort without cl8sing the program. Yoi can put your device in sleep mode, as long as it just isn't shutdown. If succesful, report at the neighbouring bug on the tracker or here(or both).

As you may understand, pinning down the cause like this can really simplify fixing the bug.

Good luck.

[Ataman]

Please explain to me why this works:

Vanilla embark, neighbouring stuff doesn't attack even with multiple towers.
Stopped playing and removed tags from save-raw and reloaded. Suddenly, undead-sieges are happening.

There are probably some other bugs as well preventing multiple sieges from other entities. In my opinion, the [FLIER]-Tag is one of them.

[Deboche]

*In a new generated world, the neighbouring bug is everywhere on embark.

*Go into legends mode and back ti embark again, and the bug is gone.

*Now you get sieges.

*HOWEVER, the moment you close the program, the fix is reverted, so no sieges.

this would explain the siege(s) in the first year(s) and not afterwards, maybe they happen until you save the game and close down df the first time

[Ataman]

Just tried another fort and it took a while but sieges are indeed happening with the FLIER tag remaining. Big fault on my part. (at least one siege was happening).

The only question to remain is how are kobolds and random gobos (apart from sieges) coded into the game?
If goblin ambushes and kobolds enter the map the same way wild animals do those might still be affected by the FLIER bug