Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Bloax]

Sometimes all attacks are deflected by helm, not sure, why. Move around a bit and try again.

Missing the attack on auxiliary body parts connected to something (like guts->lower body) tends to hit the parent body part instead, which in this case would be the head that is covered by a helmet.

[Urist Da Vinci]

...
My initial guess is that deflection can occur if ([IMPACT_FRACTURE]-[IMPACT_YIELD]/2)*round100([CONTACT_AREA]*[LAYER_SIZE])/100000 is greater than [SHOOT_FORCE].   Round100(x) is equal to x rounded down to the nearest 100, with a minimum of 100 (this is what was used in 34.11, and the rough results suggest it is unchanged as I do not see a "shoulder" in the deflection curves which would be expected if the different layer thicknesses behaved differently).
Here are the deflection results plotted vs. normalized force = [SHOOT_FORCE]/([IMPACT_FRACTURE]-[IMPACT_YIELD]/2)/round100([CONTACT_AREA]*[LAYER_SIZE])
...
As you can see, deflection starts to occur when the normalized force is less than 100,000, and increases smoothly until it reaches full deflection at about 80,000.  Statistical errors are around 2% due to my sample size, which causes the small-scale jaggedness of the curves.  Note that the plateau at deflection =0.9 is because about 10% of the dwarf is covered only by chain mail (upper arms, face, neck).  Chain mail appears to reduce most wounds to nonserious at normalize force about equal to 40,000, and deflect at around 15,000.

I believe the weird kink in deflections off steel armor is because steel has relatively low IMPACT_STRAIN_AT_YIELD.  In 34.11, deflection could only occur if bolt momentum was less than 50,000/IMPACT_STRAIN_AT_YIELD.  Otherwise, the bolts would not deflect, but would be significantly slowed and cause only bruises.  In this version, either the constant used in this calculation is no longer 50,000 or the bolt momentum is calculated differently (probably the latter).
...

Pirate Bob and I came up with these odd empirical (testing-based) equations for 0.34.11 in a long thread which attempted to definitively answer the question of which bolt materials were better. Since then, I did some independant research and disassembly-code-reading to produce the thread on the modding forum for the 0.34.11 combat physics and material usage: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=131995.0 . It has some better explanations of the calculations and quirks than we were able to obtain via arena testing.

I would like to do something similar for 0.40.xx, but as far as I know there is no DFHack for 0.40.xx
I would likely update the combat calculation lua script (currently working for 0.34.11) and spend some time trying to figure out new features such as pulping.

I do want to encourage other people to test 0.40.xx, especially the 0.40.05 ranged weapon changes, but perhaps it is better to start from the momentum system rather than the "magic constant" system? For example, Pirate Bob is using the Arena Dwarves that have been neutered of random variations such that we minimize the random noise in the results. People who are new to testing would not be aware of the advantage of using such a system.

EDIT: comparing the 0.40.04 raws to the 0.40.05 raws, I can see only a few changes:
- arrow/bolt contact area increased from 2 to 5
- arrow/bolt penetration decreased from 2000 to 1000
- arrow/bolt size (and therefore weight) unchanged!
- bow/crossbow SHOOT_MAXVEL decreased from 1000 to 200
- bow/crossbow SHOOT_FORCE unchanged!

So iron bolts still weigh 1.17 kg each, but the maximum velocity is 1/5 of the previous value, so I expect the momentums of the attacking bolts to be about 1/5 (20%) of that seen in 0.40.04 or 0.34.11

EDIT2: the larger contact area means arrows/bolts will have a harder time penetrating armor (perhaps requiring 2.5x as much momentum as before) but the arrows/bolts may now be capable of severing tiny body parts.

[Melting Sky]

 

It looks like projectiles have gone from being rail guns to pea shooters against the usual steal armor that dwarves wear. Projectiles definitely were a bit OP in the past but now it looks like dwarves and dwarves alone are almost completely immune to them while all the other races will still be horribly maimed. This update has effectively made elves completely and utterly helpless against a dwarf in full steel armor. I don't think the elves have any remaining weapons that can cause a real injury through steel.

Without their bowmen as a threat, elves won't even pose as much danger in battle as a kobold with an iron dagger.

I think this patch actually overshot the degree that projectiles needed to be nerfed particularly for steel. Candy is special and thus I think it should offer some pretty amazing protection but steel shouldn't make the wearer nigh impossible to kill with projectiles. I would be very curious to see how a steel clad weapon lord with legendary dodging, armor and shield skill would stand up against projectiles. My guess is that it would take hundreds if not thousands of shots to kill him.

[Melting Sky]

The notion that a steel clad warrior should be 92 percent safe against crossbow bolts is ridiculous. A direct hit with a crossbow (i.e. no glancing hit) should always result in armor penetration.

A highly skilled melee dwarf with full steel armor and a shield is way more than 92% safe. It is over 99% once you take into consideration dodging, blocking and swatting away the projectiles.

[thvaz]

Steel armor isn't usual. You have to consider carefully where you are embarking if you want to have squads of steelclad dwarves, otherwise you will only get some suits of it (by trading).

And stop complaining, is better the way it is now than how it was before, though it is obvious it needs some fine tuning.

edit: in my current play, a set of bronze armor, though not impervious, has been helping a lot against crossbow goblins. It won't deflect the bolts, but the wounds I'm suffering are very mild.

[Pirate Bob]

Without their bowmen as a threat, elves won't even pose as much danger in battle as a kobold with an iron dagger.

Elves use wooden arrows, which are just as useless against *all* armors as they were in 34.11.  Look at the "fake_wood" column in the OP.  All armors besides adamantine deflect wood 100% of the time.  At least in 34.11, this is because the arrow breaks on impact with dense armors.

I would prefer this not turn into a large debate about whether we like the new changes.  I think it is well established that the changes are generally an improvement, but that many people would prefer that steel plate was not 100% impenetrable against projectiles.  One goal of this thread *is* to tell you how to mod bolts to make this happen.  My initial results suggest that setting [SHOOT_FORCE] between 1500 and 1700 will give partial penetration of steel armor, but this has only been tested for copper bolts (I have run other tests, but I messed them up - I've been doing most of my testing when I'm up in the middle of the night feeding my 6 week old baby...)

Pirate Bob and I came up with these odd empirical (testing-based) equations for 0.34.11 in a long thread which attempted to definitively answer the question of which bolt materials were better. Since then, I did some independant research and disassembly-code-reading to produce the thread on the modding forum for the 0.34.11 combat physics and material usage: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=131995.0 . It has some better explanations of the calculations and quirks than we were able to obtain via arena testing.

I would like to do something similar for 0.40.xx, but as far as I know there is no DFHack for 0.40.xx
I would likely update the combat calculation lua script (currently working for 0.34.11) and spend some time trying to figure out new features such as pulping.

This is amazing!  I somehow never saw your detailed results for 34.11.  I will have to read and try to understand them later when I have time.  Very fine work indeed! 

I am very glad to hear you will be working on this.  I will continue my testing, but will assume that it is only to lay initial groundwork and that you will eventually get a more complete picture using DFHack.  Is there anything in particular that you would like me to test now?  Also, when you do obtain a complete model I would be more than happy to test predictions on a large scale if this would be useful.

One thing I can say now is that the bolt velocity calculation is definitely different.  For one, now bolts of different materials appear to have the same momentum:

Spoiler: Deflection Copper and Silver Bolts vs Adamantine Armor (click to show/hide)

As you can see, there is absolutely no difference in deflection of copper (mass 1.34) and silver (mass 1.57) bolts off adamantine armor.  This is consistent with 6262 being fixed.

Also, the velocity produced by a given [SHOOT_FORCE] is much lower.  When I increase the [CONTACT_AREA] of bolts

Spoiler: Copper Bolts vs. Adamantine Armor, Vary CONTACT_AREA (click to show/hide)

I see that the deflection vs. [SHOOT_FORCE] curves do not plateau until at shoot force is > 5000.  This means that the momenta of bolts are at least 25 times less than in 34.11, as 5000/[SHOOT_MAXVEL=200] = 25. 

The contact area curves appear to confirm that a factor of round100([CONTACT_AREA]*[LAYER_SIZE]) enters the calculation for the maximum momentum which can be stopped by armor.  Round100(x) is equal to x rounded down to the nearest 100, with a minimum value of 100.  Helms have [LAYER_SIZE]=30, breastplates 20, and everything else 15.  With [CONTACT_AREA] less than 7, round100(x) is equal to 100 for all armor.  At [CONTACT_AREA]=7, round100(x) is equal to 200 for helms, and we see that deflection continue to occur at about 5% rate out to about double the force.  I looked through the raws and confirmed that all these deflection are off of helms.  At [CONTACT_AREA]=10, now breastplates have round100(x)=200, helms 300, and everything else 100, and accordingly there are 3 steps in the curve.  We would expect helms to protect up to a force of approximately 7500 (3 times the protection at [CONTACT_AREA]=5), but I measure ~5% protection all the way up to SHOOT_FORCE=100,000.  This means that at some point between force=5000 and 7500 the bolt velocity becomes capped by [SHOOT_MAXVEL=200].  This puts bolt momenta somewhere between 25 and 37.5 times less than for the same raws in 34.11.

If it is of significant interest to figure out exactly how momenta are calculated from [SHOOT_FORCE], I can set [SHOOT_FORCE] very high and vary [SHOOT_MAXVEL] and see what deflection results.  Then by looking on my deflection vs. force curves I can estimate the velocity which results from a given force.  Urist can of course get this number much more accurately and directly with DFHack, but maybe a rough estimate would be useful in the meantime?

[Pirate Bob]

I went ahead with testing deflection vs. velocity, and from that was able to determine that bolt momentum in 40.05 is just equal to [SHOOT_FORCE]/20.  Note that in 34.11 momentum was effectively [SHOOT_FORCE] times mass, so this is 27 times less than the momentum for copper bolts in 34.11.

Spoiler: deflection vs. momentum, adamantine armor, contact area=10 (click to show/hide)

I set [SHOOT_FORCE] equal to 200,000 (so that velocity will always be [SHOOT_MAXVEL]), and then scanned [SHOOT_MAXVEL], using copper bolts with contact area 10 vs. adamantine armor.  The bolt momentum is then just the velocity times the mass (1.34 for copper bolts).  I find that this new data overlays perfectly with my data vs. [SHOOT_FORCE] if I assume that momentum = [SHOOT_FORCE]/20.

I will next see if this agrees with both our empirical formula for 34.11 deflections and Urist's exact formulae derived from code disassembly, but I may not get to that this morning.

Edit - a quick calculation show that our empirical formula [momentum = (IF-IY/2)*round100(C*S)/2400000] gives very good agreement with the data, as it predicts that adamantine helms should be penetrated at about momentum=310, breastplates at 210, and everything else at 110, which correspond well to the steps in the curve (other than the 90-100% deflection, which is due to chainmail).  Similarly, Urist's exact formulas (if I understand them correctly) give [momentum = (IF-IY/2)*round100(C*S)/2500000 * (factors/10)], which is nearly identical.  The "factors" are things like positive/negative statuses, etc, and in general (factors/10) is nearly 1.

Anyhow, it looks like everything is working as expected so far.

[Melting Sky]

I remember one of the old projectile science threads revolved around figuring out on average how many shots it took with various bolt types to incapacitate or kill a dwarf in full armor. I'm curious what those numbers look like in this version. Are there any fixes out there for arena mode's lack of quivers? It drives me nuts not being able to set up any proper projectile tests in vanilla.

[Pirate Bob]

I remember one of the old projectile science threads revolved around figuring out on average how many shots it took with various bolt types to incapacitate or kill a dwarf in full armor. I'm curious what those numbers look like in this version. Are there any fixes out there for arena mode's lack of quivers? It drives me nuts not being able to set up any proper projectile tests in vanilla.

I ran some of those tests, and can do them again.  Maybe this weekend.  It takes a while, as you need a large sample to get good statistics.  However, what I can say now is that when I reduced the momentum of bolts even lower then where Toady has it set now in 34.11 testing, it made no difference to the number of shots to incapacitate/kill a dwarf.  Also, This amazing thread by Urist da Vinci explains that if plate armor does not deflect a bolt, it does very little to slow down its momentum.  Therefore, I can fairly confidently say that for the cases where armor does not deflect bolts (everything except steel and addy) the number of shots to kill/incapacitate will change very little.  For steel, since there are 90% deflections I expect it will take about 10 times more hits to incapacitate.  For addy, only about 2% of hits cause significant damage, so at least 50 times longer to kill/incapacitate - maybe more.  My routines which determine if a hit is "serious" just parse the logs for hits causing tears, fractures, chips or jams.  Given that adamantine chain mail is reducing the number of "serious hits" (as nonserious is greater than 90%), its likely that it also reduces the severity of the remaining fractures, chips, and jams.  This is a long winded way of saying that adamantine full plate plus chain mail is nearly impenetrable to projectiles now.

Also, I really should run the tests.  Maybe I will just run large tests for Addy, Steel, and Iron armor, and a few types of bolts.  If Iron armor results are unchanged from 34.11, then the lower armors certainly won't do anything.

[Melting Sky]

I remember one of the old projectile science threads revolved around figuring out on average how many shots it took with various bolt types to incapacitate or kill a dwarf in full armor. I'm curious what those numbers look like in this version. Are there any fixes out there for arena mode's lack of quivers? It drives me nuts not being able to set up any proper projectile tests in vanilla.

I ran some of those tests, and can do them again.  Maybe this weekend.  It takes a while, as you need a large sample to get good statistics.  However, what I can say now is that when I reduced the momentum of bolts even lower then where Toady has it set now in 34.11 testing, it made no difference to the number of shots to incapacitate/kill a dwarf.  Also, This amazing thread by Urist da Vinci explains that if plate armor does not deflect a bolt, it does very little to slow down its momentum.  Therefore, I can fairly confidently say that for the cases where armor does not deflect bolts (everything except steel and addy) the number of shots to kill/incapacitate will change very little.  For steel, since there are 90% deflections I expect it will take about 10 times more hits to incapacitate.  For addy, only about 2% of hits cause significant damage, so at least 50 times longer to kill/incapacitate - maybe more.  My routines which determine if a hit is "serious" just parse the logs for hits causing tears, fractures, chips or jams.  Given that adamantine chain mail is reducing the number of "serious hits" (as nonserious is greater than 90%), its likely that it also reduces the severity of the remaining fractures, chips, and jams.  This is a long winded way of saying that adamantine full plate plus chain mail is nearly impenetrable to projectiles now.

Also, I really should run the tests.  Maybe I will just run large tests for Addy, Steel, and Iron armor, and a few types of bolts.  If Iron armor results are unchanged from 34.11, then the lower armors certainly won't do anything.

That would be very cool to see and you definitely don't need to run tests with every bolt type vs every armor type to get a good feel for how things break down in the new version. For the sake of testing, you could probably just use silver bolts since it's the highest quality ammo you can get and will serve as a good reference point.

I'm curious how you are getting around the no quiver issue in the arena? Its always driven me nuts that I can't do any proper testing on projectiles due to this bug. (I'm not a modder aside for the occasional raw fix.) The other thing that drives me nuts is that you can't change the quality modifiers in vanilla arena. In DF2012 I would go in and individually DFHack each piece of armor up to masterwork quality but it was so time prohibitive that I could never run the numbers of tests needed to get solid numbers on how much of an effect armor quality had. It seemed to make a difference but not a big enough difference to trump material quality. In other words masterwork iron armor was not as good as poor quality steel armor.

I think you are right in your prediction that candy armor will provide pretty much complete projectile invulnerability and it will do so regardless of the quality of the armor or the skill of the dwarf. I think with steel the skill of the dwarf and quality of the armor will be more important and will make the difference between an almost invulnerable dwarf and a completely invulnerable one.

[Pirate Bob]

That would be very cool to see and you definitely don't need to run tests with every bolt type vs every armor type to get a good feel for how things break down in the new version. For the sake of testing, you could probably just use silver bolts since it's the highest quality ammo you can get and will serve as a good reference point.

I will start with silver, copper, wood, and bone, as they have the potential to deflect off everything.  In this version, Toady fixed the bug which made more massive bolts get higher momentum, so it appears that silver no longer does more damage than lighter bolts.  I will also run iron, as then I'll get a baseline for "naked" dwarves when hitting copper armor (which cannot stop iron at all due to its shear yield and fracture being too low), and can also confirm that different masses of metal bolts behave the same when they can deflect.  I will be going away this weekend, so provided I can get things running before I leave I'll just let it go and get the data for a lot of things.

I'm curious how you are getting around the no quiver issue in the arena? Its always driven me nuts that I can't do any proper testing on projectiles due to this bug. (I'm not a modder aside for the occasional raw fix.) The other thing that drives me nuts is that you can't change the quality modifiers in vanilla arena. In DF2012 I would go in and individually DFHack each piece of armor up to masterwork quality but it was so time prohibitive that I could never run the numbers of tests needed to get solid numbers on how much of an effect armor quality had. It seemed to make a difference but not a big enough difference to trump material quality. In other words masterwork iron armor was not as good as poor quality steel armor.

You don't need quivers.  If you give dwarves bolts and a crossbow, they will hold the bolts in one hand and the crossbow in the other and be just fine with shooting.  AFAIK they don't use quivers in fort mode either, but maybe this was fixed in 2012?  Definitely not that long ago they didn't use quivers in fort mode and just held the bolts in their hands.

For the quality, Urist da Vinci (I think - it was someone) showed me how to use DFHack to change quality modifiers, and then I wrote perl scripts to do this automatically for a large number of dwarves.  I can't do this yet for 40.05, as we don't have DFHack, but when it comes out I will try.  I may even try to switch the entire automation from DF macros (super clunky and requires having DF window in focus at all times) to lua scripts, but not sure how practical that is.  If you look at the material science page of the wiki, you can see that our 34.11 tests show that armor quality and armor user skills appear to be subtracted from the denominator of the calculation of how much momentum armor can absorb.  Increasing quality from none to masterwork or increasing armor user from none to legendary both appear to increase the momentum absorbed by about 7%.  These are rough empirical formulas, so this increase is only approximate.

I think you are right in your prediction that candy armor will provide pretty much complete projectile invulnerability and it will do so regardless of the quality of the armor or the skill of the dwarf. I think with steel the skill of the dwarf and quality of the armor will be more important and will make the difference between an almost invulnerable dwarf and a completely invulnerable one.

If you look at this plot:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

You can see that at [SHOOT_FORCE]=1000, deflection off steel is in a plateau.  I don't believe that increasing armor user or quality would be enough to reach the next step in the "nonserious" curve for steel, which occurs at about  [SHOOT_FORCE]=700 (and corresponds to steel chain mail absorbing most of the force of incoming projectiles), or a change of 30%, but maybe a legendary armor user clad in masterwork steel might have a chance?

[Melting Sky]

You can see that at [SHOOT_FORCE]=1000, deflection off steel is in a plateau.  I don't believe that increasing armor user or quality would be enough to reach the next step in the "nonserious" curve for steel, which occurs at about  [SHOOT_FORCE]=700 (and corresponds to steel chain mail absorbing most of the force of incoming projectiles), or a change of 30%, but maybe a legendary armor user clad in masterwork steel might have a chance?

All this time I never knew that a dwarf could get by without a quiver. D'oh! 

There are just so many variables that go into all the combat in this game that it makes it very hard to intuit how things are going to turn out without actually running the math. It makes my head spin when I try to guestimate it all. You are probably correct about quality alone not being enough to reach the next break point in the damage curve. Even combined with armor user, it doesn't look like its enough. 30% is a big jump.

Does the community know what sort of effect quality has on projectiles and the weapons that fire them? As edged weapons it seems plausible that the projectiles would get a damage boost from quality but I've never been able to find any sort of information on the subject. The same goes for the projectile weapons themselves. To this day I still try to outfit my dwarves with masterwork crossbows yet I have no clue if it is doing them any good or not.

[thvaz]

Whips are still light sabers in 0.40.05.   

[Pirate Bob]

Here are some results for largish-scale (288 dwarves each) tests of how quickly bolts kill/knock over dwarves in 40.05.  I unfortunately used "arena dwarves" (see OP) which have [NO_PAIN], and therefore I didn't get data on how quickly bolts cause dwarves to give into pain (which happens a lot):

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Deflections

	adamantine	steel	iron	bronze	copper	silver	bone	fake_wood
adamantine	0.911617	0.904236	0.905514	0.904219	0.902948	0.900094	1.000000	0.912453
steel	0.000000	0.903045	0.904053	0.903667	0.906622	0.903490	0.902941	1.000000
iron	0.000000	0.000000	0.000000	0.000000	0.000000	0.000000	0.906275	1.000000
bronze	0.000000	0.000000	0.000000	0.000000	0.000000	0.000000	0.903563	1.000000
copper	0.000000	0.000000	0.000000	0.000000	0.000000	0.000000	0.903528	1.000000

Nonserious

	adamantine	steel	iron	bronze	copper	silver	bone	fake_wood
adamantine	0.983539	0.978646	0.978783	0.978955	0.978645	0.981317	1.000000	0.983956
steel	0.000000	0.908949	0.911032	0.909953	0.912942	0.908526	0.981144	1.000000
iron	0.000000	0.000000	0.003012	0.010323	0.006140	0.006993	0.982568	1.000000
bronze	0.000000	0.000000	0.006965	0.011086	0.004600	0.006768	0.982185	1.000000
copper	0.000000	0.000000	0.000000	0.000000	0.008040	0.003161	0.982741	1.000000

kills

	adamantine	steel	iron	bronze	copper	silver	bone	fake_wood
adamantine	0.000000	0.000000	0.000000	0.000000	0.000000	0.000000	0.000000	0.000000
steel	16.430556	0.000000	0.000000	0.000000	0.000000	0.000000	0.000000	0.000000
iron	15.947917	12.815972	19.547038	20.433566	22.222222	21.233449	0.000000	0.000000
bronze	15.461806	12.375000	21.727273	21.289199	24.142857	23.565972	0.000000	0.000000
copper	16.212544	11.739583	13.437500	12.690972	23.333333	23.569444	0.000000	0.000000

falls

	adamantine	steel	iron	bronze	copper	silver	bone	fake_wood
adamantine	0.000000	0.000000	0.000000	0.000000	0.000000	0.000000	0.000000	0.000000
steel	2.437037	0.000000	0.000000	0.000000	0.000000	0.000000	0.000000	0.000000
iron	2.425373	2.419231	3.468992	2.657692	3.947552	3.965278	0.000000	0.000000
bronze	2.501845	2.329365	3.471264	3.131274	3.780488	4.097222	0.000000	0.000000
copper	2.281955	2.392308	2.365759	2.385214	3.461538	3.288194	0.000000	0.000000

The zeros in the table for kills and falls indicate that no deaths or falling over were recorded even after 100 bolts were fired.  In other words, dwarves are effectively invulnerable against bolts.  This is the case for bone and wood bolts vs. and armor, anything against adamantine armor, and anything except adamantine against steel armor.

The increase in time to kill/knock over dwarves when their armor is not inferior to the bolt material is due to chain mail converting edged attacks to blunt.  This is consistent with 34.11 results (see the spreadsheet within the DFFD file in my sig).  I also ran copper bolts vs. bronze armor without chainmail as a check, and found 14.1 hits to kill and 2.8 to fall over, which is not significantly different from steel vs. bronze (armor does nothing), confirming that it is only the chainmail which has an effect on bolts in these cases.

Whips are still light sabers in 0.40.05.   

Yup.  The contact area is still 1, so no armor will stop them ever.  I think Toady reduced the penetration at some point, so at least they don't sever limbs any more, but they are still ridiculous.  At some point I'd like to look into if its possible to balance them by modding the raws.

Does the community know what sort of effect quality has on projectiles and the weapons that fire them? As edged weapons it seems plausible that the projectiles would get a damage boost from quality but I've never been able to find any sort of information on the subject. The same goes for the projectile weapons themselves. To this day I still try to outfit my dwarves with masterwork crossbows yet I have no clue if it is doing them any good or not.

I am pretty sure the quality of crossbows is believed to impact accuracy of crossbows.  I think I ran testing on effects of both bolt and crossbow quality and found no effect.  Urist da Vinci's work shows that bolt quality will impact sharpness, which will help determine if bolts cut through a layer of armor, effectively ignoring it.  However I don't know if this change is ever enough to make a difference or not.  I would think it is, as changing quality from none to masterwork increases sharpness by a factor of 2.  In other words, I *think* that a masterwork steel bolt would be able to penetrate steel armor like it isn't there, but I don't know for sure.  Urist da Vinci might be able to say better.  Otherwise, I can test whenever DFHack becomes available.

[Melting Sky]

Thanks for all the great work you've done. So it appears that both adamantine and steel armor grant complete invulnerability to projectiles which reinforces the impressions I've been getting while playing in my new fort. I don't have any candy yet but my steel clad juggernauts took out a bunch of goblin rangers including a master bowman squad leader like they were nothing where as in the past versions I would have had at least a couple of moderately serious injuries.

Although I haven't been able to do any weapon quality testing in this new version I did a lot of it in the last version and generally what I found was that weapon quality didn't have a huge impact but it was definitely enough to be noticeable for edged weapons. It didn't have much of an effect if any on blunt weapons.

My guess is that assuming the effects of quality is unchanged in this version then steel armor will still be pretty much invulnerable to even masterwork steel bolts but that the likelihood hood of a fluke hit getting through will be a little higher. I could be wrong since my experience with edged weapon testing involved only melee gear but the difference between masterwork and base quality was not nearly as great as the difference between one material and the next.

Thanks gain for all the work you put into testing out the new projectile physics.