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[crossmr]

I just remembered you can actually put a wheelbarrow on any stockpile..
it will use it..
just not effectively.

Smelter smelts tetra
produces 4 copper bars 2 silver

furnace operator goes up grabs a bin, drags it across the room, puts 1 silver bar in it, then heads back to the bar stockpile, without the bin. why?
another dwarf grabs another bin drags that to the smelter picks up the remaining 5 bars (oh efficiency!!), then heads back to the bar stockpile, without the bin also. Why?

Because NOW they're going to use the wheelbarrow to go pick it up and bring it back to the bar stockpile. lets add even another trip in because..goddamn it. 

If they used the wheelbarrow in place of the bin, epic.

if they used the wheelbarrow to take the bin out in the first, I could live with it.

drag it out there first then run back for the wheelbarrow? The insanity just knows no bounds here.

[Icefire2314]

Oh, please, yes

I can't even begin to say how frustrating it is on a new world where all of the plump helmets are stored in one barrel and I get spammed with job cancellation because the farmers take the barrel to harvest the PHs, leading to:

-brewer cancelling brewing job
-cook cancelling meal making
-harvesters cancelling their lives harvesting (don't get a job cancellation for this one, but I assume it's happening)

[Teldin]

A million times yes for this suggestion. A billion times, even. This is my #1 complaint about DF. Everything else I can live with; but the complete absurdity that is container hauling is just unforgivable.

[R@bbit]

Hi all.  I am going to note my agreement with the suggestion to fix hauling.

I think that it might be best to just turn off hauling with barrels and bins (while still allowing barrels and bins in stockpiles to reduce space) until a fix can be made.  I'm not sure if that would really be easy to do, though (just an idea).

In current versions of DF, the weight of the barrel slows down the dwarf carrying it by a lot if it is heavy.  In my current fortress, I recently made several helms for my troops out of precious, rare zombinite.  On receiving the new uniform assignment, the squad members dropped the headgear from their old uniform and went for the barrel where the helms are.  When the first one got there, they grabbed the barrel, and the other dwarves stopped trying to collect their helms because the bin with the helms is taken.  The dwarf that grabbed the barrel will very slowly (because the bin is full of heavy, heavy armor) make its way to where their old headgear was to put it in the bin and then will very slowly return the bin.  After this is complete, the process repeats until every squad member has geared up.  I stopped using bins for my weapons stockpile, and I'm making space to do the same for armor

[Chevaleresse]

oh my god please yes

[Henour]

Thix eplains the extrem amount of dwarves running with bins from and to my food stockpile. I had forgotten all about that ...

[Bumber]

I stopped using bins for my weapons stockpile, and I'm making space to do the same for armor

I would recommend not using bins, period. They can break ammo stockpiles, too. I'll just be using minecart quantum stockpiles until bins are fixed, and feeder stockpiles wherever barrels are used (farms, fishing, etc.)

[GlyphGryph]

Yeah. Gonna go with the guy arguing roughly "Baskets and Buckets for small items collections tasks, put some stuff in then *dump* the basket/bucket used for this task into a container in the stockpile." and "Wheelbarrows for large/heavy items collection tasks, put some stuff then *dump* the wheelbarrow into the stockpile."

That would actually make sense. Dwarves could keep their basket/bucket until their next item to gather is too big to fit in it, and then return it to the stockpile to dump stuff out, and then leave it in the nearest tool pile.

[loose nut]

I don't really care what sort of container the dwarves use to collect items, though bags, buckets, and I guess baskets* would be the most logical. So long as they use an empty one for collecting items, and leave it empty afterwards so it can later be used to collect more items.

I suppose the wheelbarrow mechanic where x number of them are attached to a given stockpile could be used for bags & such. I didn't think of that at the time I wrote my first comment.

*baskets seem to imply a whole new industry, unless they are implemented as an elven/human form of bucket (which would be weird because of liquids)

[Eric Forse]

I agree that the easiest solution is to use the wheelbarrow for multiple heavy object as well as the basket and bucket for lighter, solid and liquid objects, respectfully. I would like to mention the vehicle routing problem, or VRP, to be honest it's quite relevant to hauling in the DF. For anyone who doesn't know what the vehicle routing problem is: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle_routing_problem. Basical you have to find the shortest route for pick up and drop off. It's NP-complete so it shouldn't be too hard to implement, in fact it's probably already in.

[Aranador]

The absolute most important thing about this idea is it means we could then have dwarves who are proficient in Basket Weaving.

[Maklak]

@"R@bbit":
Yeah, I haven't observed it as closely as you did, but I've noticed that in 0.34 it takes much longer for squads to equip themselves than it did in 0.31. Every time a few soldiers die, or a few high quality items are made, several soldiers switch their equipment and it can take up to a season, interfering with training. Of course after a season I'll have some more deadths and/or high quality items made and the cycle continues.

The advice to use a minecart quantum stocklile with no bins actually sounds sensible despite me not liking the idea of quantum stockpiling in general.

[Lummox JR]

Since the old way was to have haul the item to the bin one at a time, I would suggest a compromise: When some number of items--say three or more--in close proximity all can use the same bin, the bin can be hauled to the pickup site. This way picking up large amounts of goblinite would be workable, as would binning up a whole loose pile of gems. Preferring spare bins for this task, emptied on arrival would also be a good idea. I think both would solve the problem.

Of course the same logic applies to barrels and bags, too.

Also, a corollary is that it makes a great deal of sense, when farming, to carry a bag of seeds to the site and not put the bag away till the planting is finished. E.g., if several jobs need a container's contents at a job site, the container should be considered immobile for the duration of the jobs and not returned to its stockpile--although the contents would be readily accessible to anyone.

[Dwarfbux]

Oh yes, please change/fix this. I registered just to post this. I hadn't played since shortly after the 2012 release and for the life of me I couldn't figure out why my farmers weren't planting seeds. I managed to fix it once but now it has cropped up again and my fort is crazy low on food even though I have over one-hundred plump helmet spawn waiting to be planted.

This bleeds over into other things too. It seems that my fort is perpetually mired in hauling jobs because they get a bin/barrel/bag each almost each time they want to haul something. I don't really even remember the last time I had so much junk just sitting around.

I don't think I will play DF actively for the near future until this is either fixed or until it becomes clear that it will be a while and I play anyway out of desperation. There is, after all, no other game quite like this one. Oh well, it gives me more time to plan out the invader gauntlet I am making (The Gregarious Gauntlet of Good Times (tm))

[Maklak]

> I hadn't played since shortly after the 2012 release and for the life of me I couldn't figure out why my farmers weren't planting seeds.
Make a big stockpile next to the farms that allows only seeds and no bins. It should be about 40 tiles, maybe more. That way you'll get seed in bags and there will be enough of them to both plant and pick up.

On the subject of military Dwarves, I think it should go like this:
* On choosing a new armour / weapon item, claim it and make it unmoveable. If someone wants to pick up a bin with it, that item is left on the ground.
* Walk up to the item and pick it up.
* Take off old item, wear new one.
* Drop the old item where you're standing, but put it in a bin, if it is in the same tile.
This should make re-equipping faster.