Bay 12 Games Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  
Pages: [1] 2 3

Author Topic: Fix container hauling  (Read 2972 times)

crossmr

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
    • Jeonsa
Fix container hauling
« on: July 31, 2014, 07:13:37 pm »

this is an ongoing issue of frustration for many people. I can't remember when it was introduced, but the whole "take the container to pick up the item" schtick needs to die a horrible death in magma.

It works fine in very limited circumstances, circumstances which don't even happen in the new version. There are no more mass goblin sieges which require someone to run around picking up dozens of pieces of clothing.

What instead happens is broken mechanics leading to idiocy.

As an example I'll use my latest set up:

Pig tail farm
pig tail stockpile
workshop - processing
pig tail thread stockpile
2 weavers
cloth stockpile

flow runs from top to bottom

This works fine until the farmer starts processing.

There are currently 400 pig tail thread across 4 bins.

When the farmer processes a stack of pigtails instead of generating a single hauling request, he generates a hauling request for each thread, usually at least 4, which means all the bins get picked up and taken to the workshop to pick up 1 thread each.

in the meantime the weavers finish processing a thread and can't find another available thread. They can't wait 3 seconds so they cancel their repeated task and leave.

You queue up their job again on repeat, and after on iteration it cancels because he generated 4 hauling tasks again. There are multiple points of failure here.

1. one workshop creating multiple identical items should not generate multiple hauling tasks if the intent is to use the bins to pick up multiple items
2. Jobs shouldn't be constantly cancelled because an item is in transit, a dwarven delay mechanism should exist.

My suggested changes are this:

1. Dwarves do not take a bin to pick up any light single items
2. Dwarves do not cancel a job if an item is available but in transit, it can be delayed (this would reduce job cancellation spam 99%)
3. gatherers use no barrels. Right now it seems a gatherer goes out, generates the food item, then a barrel has to be brought to pick it up. Talk about the height of innefficiency. Let dwarves or the gatherers individually carry things inside. Only in the youngest forts are there no one available to carry these things. By the time a fort is going, you have haulers galore.
4. Workshops producing multiple items generate a single hauling order rather than many
5. Give us a toggle "dwarves use containers to pick up items" in the orders. Let those who want to use the old system do so. I'd kill for a dwarven cleanup swarm these days.
Logged

dudlol

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Fix container hauling
« Reply #1 on: July 31, 2014, 07:35:03 pm »

It does need to be addressed. In a lot of cases it's more efficient to just not use bins, which kind of defeats the purpose.

Perhaps bins become shelves and immobile?
Logged

Veylon

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Fix container hauling
« Reply #2 on: July 31, 2014, 07:50:15 pm »

One solution might be containers kept at the buildings. A barrel/bin is brought to the shop, the products go into it, and when it is full, it is brought to the appropriate stockpile and another brought in. The barrel can be considered a part of the stockpile even while at the shop so that dwarves who need the stuff before it gets stockpiled can still retrieve it.

A 'cleanup zone' might be a good idea as well: Mark an area where the carnage happened, mark a dumping off location, and have the dwarves bring bins, cram them full, and then dump them on the ground where you want. I do something similar using generic stockpiles and minecarts.
Logged
At what point did the suggestion of child sacrifice become the more ethical option?

Dorf and Dumb

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Fix container hauling
« Reply #3 on: August 02, 2014, 02:39:19 pm »

Hear, hear!  Watching dorfs run and go get the container, come back and get the whatever, run and go put the container away gets annoying.
Logged

yobbo

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Fix container hauling
« Reply #4 on: August 02, 2014, 05:18:26 pm »

No matter how many delicious cooked meals are waiting right beside the dining room, dwarves still insist on stealing plump helmets from the brewery, carrying them all the way to the dining room, and leaving a single seed on the chair.

Queue some dwarf idling in the dining room:
* walk (directly past the seed) all the way to the seed stockpile
* steal the entire bag of plump helmet spawn
* carry it to the single seed
* put the seed in the bag
* leave the bag on the floor (wtf?)
* walk back to the seed stockpile
* steal the entire barrel of all the seeds
* carry the barrel to the dining room
* put the bag in the barrel
* carry the barrel back to the seed stockpile

This is ridiculous and infuriating for so many reasons.
« Last Edit: August 03, 2014, 04:57:49 am by yobbo »
Logged

Bumber

  • Bay Watcher
  • REMOVE KOBOLD
    • View Profile
Re: Fix container hauling
« Reply #5 on: August 02, 2014, 10:42:38 pm »

-snip-
I am now imagining the hilarity that must ensue when a dwarven banker finds a penny on the sidewalk. I almost feel the urge to draw it.
Logged
Reading his name would trigger it. Thinking of him would trigger it. No other circumstances would trigger it- it was strictly related to the concept of Bill Clinton entering the conscious mind.

THE xTROLL FUR SOCKx RUSE WAS A........... DISTACTION        the carp HAVE the wagon

A wizard has turned you into a wagon. Was this inevitable (Y/y)?

yobbo

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Fix container hauling
« Reply #6 on: August 03, 2014, 05:12:00 am »

Obviously we must transfer the vault to the penny! Then the penny will be in the vault.

*banker proceeds to haul ten tons of coins across the map*
Logged

Bumber

  • Bay Watcher
  • REMOVE KOBOLD
    • View Profile
Re: Fix container hauling
« Reply #7 on: August 03, 2014, 11:17:55 pm »

Obviously we must transfer the vault to the penny! Then the penny will be in the vault.

*banker proceeds to haul ten tons of coins across the map*
Not merely the coins. The entire bank structure (whether block by block or hauling the entire foundation.) And then putting it back again.
Logged
Reading his name would trigger it. Thinking of him would trigger it. No other circumstances would trigger it- it was strictly related to the concept of Bill Clinton entering the conscious mind.

THE xTROLL FUR SOCKx RUSE WAS A........... DISTACTION        the carp HAVE the wagon

A wizard has turned you into a wagon. Was this inevitable (Y/y)?

MystRunner

  • Bay Watcher
  • Idiots Roam Free! Beware all ye who enter!
    • View Profile
Re: Fix container hauling
« Reply #8 on: August 05, 2014, 02:39:55 pm »

I agree this is defiantly a fix that needs to go into game. It's very annoying and I usually end up forbiding barrels in my seed stockpile and bins in other stock piles so that it's somewhat avoidable but my stock piles have to be HUGE! The only other option is little close by mini stock piles that forbid the barrels/bins and a larger stock pile that accepts the barrels and bins.
Logged
I don't know what is more impressive, that dwarves can skip salting and curing meat opting for zombiefication, or that the dark art of necromancy has been twisted to the cause of curing meats.

Dwarf Fortress : Crimes Against Nature Simulator.

loose nut

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Fix container hauling
« Reply #9 on: August 05, 2014, 02:46:18 pm »

What I want the dwarves to do is use a SPARE bin (and maybe the number of spare bins can be set somehow, or you can create a utilty stockpile where these bins go first) to collect items, and then transfer what they collect to the bins that are used to store things in the storage stockpiles.
Logged

Ghills

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Fix container hauling
« Reply #10 on: August 05, 2014, 04:01:29 pm »

+100,000

I honestly don't care what method Toady uses to fix bins and barrels. But something needs to be done.
Logged
I AM POINTY DEATH INCARNATE
Ye know, being an usurper overseer gone mad with power isn't too bad. It's honestly not that different from being a normal overseer.
To summarize:
They do an epic face. If that fails, they beat said object to death with their beard.

yobbo

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Fix container hauling
« Reply #11 on: August 05, 2014, 04:56:59 pm »

What I want the dwarves to do is use a SPARE bin (and maybe the number of spare bins can be set somehow, or you can create a utilty stockpile where these bins go first) to collect items, and then transfer what they collect to the bins that are used to store things in the storage stockpiles.
Oh that's actually a really good idea. Maybe they could have something like "baskets", so a dwarf could go get a basket, put all the things to transfer in the basket, and then put the basket back (or maybe keep it if it's a dedicated hauling dwarf?)

Baskets would make a lot of sense for herbalists to carry too. In stead of doing their weird 3-trips-back-and-forth-for-every-plant shuffle.

Herbalism job:
* get basket
* pick herbs and put in basket
* pick more herbs and put in basket
* transfer herbs from basket to stockpile only when basket full or no more herbs to pick
Logged

crossmr

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
    • Jeonsa
Re: Fix container hauling
« Reply #12 on: August 05, 2014, 08:51:15 pm »

What I want the dwarves to do is use a SPARE bin (and maybe the number of spare bins can be set somehow, or you can create a utilty stockpile where these bins go first) to collect items, and then transfer what they collect to the bins that are used to store things in the storage stockpiles.
Oh that's actually a really good idea. Maybe they could have something like "baskets", so a dwarf could go get a basket, put all the things to transfer in the basket, and then put the basket back (or maybe keep it if it's a dedicated hauling dwarf?)

Baskets would make a lot of sense for herbalists to carry too. In stead of doing their weird 3-trips-back-and-forth-for-every-plant shuffle.

Herbalism job:
* get basket
* pick herbs and put in basket
* pick more herbs and put in basket
* transfer herbs from basket to stockpile only when basket full or no more herbs to pick

i think it's simpler than this:

if the target item weighs over X weight than the dwarf uses the wheelbarrow attached to the stockpile (you can attach one to any stockpile)

the game also then needs to change the way it generates jobs, if there is a pick up job generated, any like item within say 15 squares (horizontal) that is of the same type gets lumped into a job and generates the call for a wheelbarrow pick up. If a wheelbarrow job is generated and additional items are created before it gets there, they should get tacked on to the job.

Logged

Morrigi

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Fix container hauling
« Reply #13 on: August 05, 2014, 08:53:03 pm »

+1,000,000
Toady, fix this ****. Please. Pretty please. With a kitten on top.
Logged
Cthulhu 2016! No lives matter! No more years! Awaken that which slumbers in the deep!

Waparius

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Fix container hauling
« Reply #14 on: August 06, 2014, 12:02:20 am »

Oh that's actually a really good idea. Maybe they could have something like "baskets", so a dwarf could go get a basket, put all the things to transfer in the basket, and then put the basket back (or maybe keep it if it's a dedicated hauling dwarf?)

Baskets would make a lot of sense for herbalists to carry too. In stead of doing their weird 3-trips-back-and-forth-for-every-plant shuffle.

Herbalism job:
* get basket
* pick herbs and put in basket
* pick more herbs and put in basket
* transfer herbs from basket to stockpile only when basket full or no more herbs to pick

Yes. Baskets and bags should be hauled around, and made somehow similar to buckets in the code so that we can get proper water-barrel production as well.

Baskets would also work to speed up some tasks (as may wheelbarrows) - instead of going and collecting individual ingredients for dyeing or cooking, a dwarf could fill their basket with them before going to the workshop instead. For smelting and similar replace "basket" with "wheelbarrow".
Logged
Pages: [1] 2 3