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Author Topic: My first evil embark - some advice?  (Read 3117 times)

Thomasasia

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Re: My first evil embark - some advice?
« Reply #15 on: August 01, 2014, 02:56:16 pm »

You may want to destroy all corpses and only use slabs, but that might be overkill. And I like the idea with bunnies. If the weather is bad enough though, I would just hide. "That way leads to the surface. We don't go to the surface"
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"That way leads to the surface. We don't go to the surface."

ZzarkLinux

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Re: My first evil embark - some advice?
« Reply #16 on: August 01, 2014, 04:10:06 pm »

My advice is to figure out as soon as you can what flavor of evil weather or reanimating effects you may have to deal with on this embark. Once you know that you can figure out how to deal with it.

This is very good advice.

Some people make the mistake to just randomly embarking, getting overwhelmed, turtling up, and then dying to fps death. The end result: "Evil Biomes are boring unfun." Unfortunately, this may get worse in the new version until things are more stable ...

Once you get a feel for your "flavor of evil", then adjust your embark accordingly. Me, I recommend:
- raise embark points to your " doable, not easy" level
- save immediately after embark (or get tired or regenning worlds for a good flavor/biome)
- seasonal autosaves and backups, unless you want to lose everything to a buggy zombie head / indestructible zombie hair / unable to cancel attack orders / other bugs.

Then you'll never want a tranquil embark again :)
« Last Edit: August 01, 2014, 04:12:05 pm by ZzarkLinux »
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Fat Friar

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Re: My first evil embark - some advice?
« Reply #17 on: August 01, 2014, 06:22:08 pm »

Also which version are you playing? That makes a huge difference as to the strategy you should employ. If it's DF2012 then the undead are pretty easy pickings so long as you aren't in a reanimating biome. Crossbows will utterly destroy them as can moderately well equipped and trained melee dwarves. You should not try to use magma or fire to destroy them. Once you have a decent military, if the weather isn't particularly dangerous and you aren't in a terrifying biome, you can actually get away with not sealing off the outside world permanently. You just have to be careful about it.

If you are playing DF2014, crossbows will be utterly useless against the undead and all but excellently equipped legendary melee dwarves should avoid direct combat with them. Magma and fire are quite effective. You will most likely have to turtle even if the weather wouldn't otherwise warrant it due to just how dangerous standard zombies can be. If you do allow some surface activity make sure you limit it and keep a very close eye on things while you do it. Undead giant animals should be given the utmost respect. Even a single giant zombie should be considered a potentially fort ending threat if not dealt with properly. Bladed weapons work much better against zombies unless you are in a reanimating biome in which case you may wish to consider sticking to good blunt weapons.
I'm playing 2012 with Modest Mod installed, which rebalances ranged weapons but they're still pretty powerful. And apparently my choice of hammers was the wrong one! No big though, if I get any migrant hunters I'll have equipped and trained marksdwarves, because the meat industry seems to be inviable here.

You may want to destroy all corpses and only use slabs, but that might be overkill. And I like the idea with bunnies. If the weather is bad enough though, I would just hide. "That way leads to the surface. We don't go to the surface"
It's looking like graves are not a luxury in which Sugarlamb can afford to indulge. Nothin wrong with slabs though, if they're high-quality they'll make my idlers happy.
I like the idea with bunnies too. Those cavies that dwarves seem so fond of will make good bait as well.

Once you get a feel for your "flavor of evil", then adjust your embark accordingly. Me, I recommend:
- raise embark points to your " doable, not easy" level
- save immediately after embark (or get tired or regenning worlds for a good flavor/biome)
- seasonal autosaves and backups, unless you want to lose everything to a buggy zombie head / indestructible zombie hair / unable to cancel attack orders / other bugs.

Then you'll never want a tranquil embark again :)
Seasonal autosaves are a Very Good Idea, I only have it set to yearly now.
It appears my evil is reanimation- and dizzying-rain-flavored. Could be worse. It's the middle of the second month now and no clouds have appeared, but we'll see.

Here's how the month of Granite went.

Uh oh! Looks like there won't be time to make shields, just two doors. The birdies chased my expedition leader around a little before I managed to get everyone underground, but luckily didn't catch him.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Before locking down I managed to grab six logs (six cages for six baddies), a barrel of plump helmets, and a few barrels of booze. Off to the right there, that's the cage stockpile and a grated-over watering hole (not sure if those zombie birds can swim), while furniture production goes on below.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Hey check it out, magma-safe stone. Good thing I spent all those points on rutile huh? Derp.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

By the time I had six cage traps installed, it seems the giant sparrows had flown off the map. Oh well, now I have a nice trap hall in front of my stockpiles.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

The zombie porcupine seems content to putter around by the caldera, so I plopped down some stockpiles and opened the doors to retrieve all my cool stuff from the wagon.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

During which, it rained acrid sludge upon the unfortunate heads of my citizens. It seems that it causes dizziness but no wounds, so I'll have to be wary of my dwarves stumbling into traps. Also shown here, some workshops and a dwarven atom smasher, though I don't have any refuse yet other than vermin remains.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

So if I survive getting my supplies inside, next step is to set up some farms and then butcher the pack animals, immediately processing the skin and wool as per BlackFlyme's advice. Should probably have my unarmored-but-gutsy hammerdwarves standing by for the duration, too.
One month in and I'm already altering my strategy and facing new challenges!
Then you'll never want a tranquil embark again :)
This! :)

Thanks again for the tips everyone!
« Last Edit: August 01, 2014, 06:24:20 pm by Fat Friar »
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SimRobert2001

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Re: My first evil embark - some advice?
« Reply #18 on: August 01, 2014, 08:28:49 pm »

If i'm not mistaken, Isn't there a bug in which pieces of creatures are just as strong as the beast it came from? Or was that a .34 bug?
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Fat Friar

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Re: My first evil embark - some advice?
« Reply #19 on: August 01, 2014, 09:07:33 pm »

Whoops! I had the foresight to trench in some water, but then I forgot to put a water source zone over it. This proved fatal for my Grower/Mechanic, as he went out to the pond to clean himself and was accosted by a giant kiwi hen corpse. I locked the doors and abandoned him to his fate.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I hope it was worth it, Zas Isdenasmel, there's no baths in hell.

His reanimated corpse was later lured into the cage traps. It will be used for training purposes later.
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Fat Friar

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Re: My first evil embark - some advice?
« Reply #20 on: August 01, 2014, 09:24:36 pm »

If i'm not mistaken, Isn't there a bug in which pieces of creatures are just as strong as the beast it came from? Or was that a .34 bug?

I'm playing 0.34, and I'm not sure about that, but for here's the combat log of an undead animal and an undead body part.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
The parts where it BENT him made me wince. The militia commander was a proficient hammerdwarf, competent armor user, and adequate dodger, kitted in only her clothes and a copper war hammer. It seems to me that bodies are more dangerous than single parts.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2014, 09:26:25 pm by Fat Friar »
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locustgate

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Re: My first evil embark - some advice?
« Reply #21 on: August 01, 2014, 09:36:41 pm »

Having finally conquered the circus in a savage tundra, I'd like to try a more challenging embark site, so I'm thinking I'll strike the earth in an evil biome.
From my earlier, short-lived forays into them, it seems that it's best to neglect the surface as quickly as possible, and depend on the first cavern layer for wood and water. I figure if I survive the first year I can set up a well-defended caravan entrance and an archery pillbox to deal with sieges. Before I've always kept a significant portion of my fort aboveground to avoid cave adaptation, so it'll be interesting to design a fort where traffic in and out isn't a factor.

So a couple of questions before I go: I plan to take a couple soldiers, and I'm playing the more stable 0.34 with Modest Mod installed, so no pulping yet. Given that, which would be best - axes, swords, hammers or crossbows?
Also, what would be better as a first line of frantic, early defense; cage or stone-fall traps?
And, any other tips and tricks you'd like to share about charging headfirst into fell lands?

Thanks in advance!

Pray to whatever deity you worship.
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Fat Friar

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Re: My first evil embark - some advice?
« Reply #22 on: August 01, 2014, 10:29:38 pm »

Pray to whatever deity you worship.

I'm an atheist, so I'll just pray to Armok, even though it's quite clear He enjoys seeing us suffer.

So far I'm liking this fort. I wanted a challenge, and sure-as-circus got one. At one point, seeing how neatly my defenses had handled the Planter corpse, I was confident enough to make a training axe and send my doctor out to chop some trees. After designating, curiosity led me to check the units screen...
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Aw HELL no, not after what a flightless bird did to a careless dwarf. Locked the doors and piped in some magma to power a forge and smelter.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

That allowed me to make some copper cages, as well as a little armor for my army of two, from the hematite I'd bought.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Also from behind the safety of my two locked tower-cap doors* I put down an ugly-as-puke and not very safe trade depot. That lever by the stairs closes three hatch covers over the upward ramps, so it's airlocked.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I plan to abandon this bunker for a more elegant fort, but as that might not happen before the caravan, this will do nicely.

Now that I have a forge and a leather shop running, I've ground out ten quivers, some crossbows and some bolts. If any of the first migrant wave makes it to the statue garden in one piece, they'll be conscripted as marksdwarves. Given that my military is currently two sorta-armored hammerdwarves who have thus far only fought a donkey skin, is there anything you'd recommend for getting migrants in safely? Once again, thanks in advance.

*Yeah, the only wood available at embark was tower-cap and fungiwood. Maybe because I cranked the evil up at worldgen, my civ never ventures aboveground either.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2014, 10:32:47 pm by Fat Friar »
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ZzarkLinux

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Re: My first evil embark - some advice?
« Reply #23 on: August 01, 2014, 11:00:22 pm »

Your spot sounds pretty sweet. With the non-lethal rain you could probably make an awesome fort in time. I always seem to get clouds, and not the "rest in piece" kind. Seems like you've had a lucky embark, actually, since you got a porcupine instead of birds.

If i'm not mistaken, Isn't there a bug in which pieces of creatures are just as strong as the beast it came from? Or was that a .34 bug?
Just happened to me in .34 last week. I decapitated a beast, and had to abandon that cavern for a bit. Couldn't dump the head, because the dwarf would walk slow (the head weighed as much as the beast). Couldn't fight it either, because it had super-crocodile skills with a fraction of the size (impossible to hit).
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Fat Friar

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Re: My first evil embark - some advice?
« Reply #24 on: August 01, 2014, 11:08:46 pm »

Eh? Check the screenshots if you like. I had six giant sparrows on embark, and five giant ravens just flew in. As well as two migrants.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Woo. Well, at least that hunter can lead a squad of marksdwarves... of which... hopefully I'll be able to recruit with fall's wave. Let's see how they fare against the birdies!

Edit: Three migrants. One is a child. Will use deconstruction to place the youngling as trap bait.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2014, 11:10:20 pm by Fat Friar »
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Fat Friar

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Re: My first evil embark - some advice?
« Reply #25 on: August 02, 2014, 04:14:44 am »

Well, this looks less than ideal.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Whaddya think, should I send my eight untrained marksdwarves out, or lock the doors and hope the giant crows leave before the food rots?

Meanwhile, under the mountain,
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
...praise the miners.  ¬_¬
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Nobles always ask for a nice tomb. See that they make good use of it.
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