Bay 12 Games Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  
Pages: 1 ... 77 78 [79] 80 81 82

Author Topic: Armchair General General - /AGG  (Read 92996 times)

Bumber

  • Bay Watcher
  • REMOVE KOBOLD
    • View Profile
Re: Armchair General General - /AGG
« Reply #1170 on: May 29, 2017, 10:24:53 pm »

US aircraft and weapons are designed and built by civilian contractors.

Drones, aircraft, bombs, missile defense, chemicals. The only thing stopping them from being assembled and distributed is the law.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2017, 10:35:58 pm by Bumber »
Logged
Reading his name would trigger it. Thinking of him would trigger it. No other circumstances would trigger it- it was strictly related to the concept of Bill Clinton entering the conscious mind.

THE xTROLL FUR SOCKx RUSE WAS A........... DISTACTION        the carp HAVE the wagon

A wizard has turned you into a wagon. This was inevitable (Y/y)?

Strife26

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Armchair General General - /AGG
« Reply #1171 on: May 29, 2017, 10:56:15 pm »

US aircraft and weapons are designed and built by civilian contractors.

Drones, aircraft, bombs, missile defense, chemicals. The only thing stopping them from being assembled and distributed is the law.

Yep, because the military industrial complex is somehow less or more American than the American military or the American populace.
Logged
This post likely did not make me any happier, tougher, smarter, or richer. Probably not a good usage of limited time and effort.

Bumber

  • Bay Watcher
  • REMOVE KOBOLD
    • View Profile
Re: Armchair General General - /AGG
« Reply #1172 on: May 30, 2017, 12:05:44 am »

US aircraft and weapons are designed and built by civilian contractors.

Drones, aircraft, bombs, missile defense, chemicals. The only thing stopping them from being assembled and distributed is the law.

Yep, because the military industrial complex is somehow less or more American than the American military or the American populace.
The hypothetical scenario, as I understand it, is military versus civilians. Contractors are private sector, civilians, not under military oath. They'll be wanting civilian-produced goods.

The executives will probably also want to flee the country with their money.
« Last Edit: May 30, 2017, 12:39:26 am by Bumber »
Logged
Reading his name would trigger it. Thinking of him would trigger it. No other circumstances would trigger it- it was strictly related to the concept of Bill Clinton entering the conscious mind.

THE xTROLL FUR SOCKx RUSE WAS A........... DISTACTION        the carp HAVE the wagon

A wizard has turned you into a wagon. This was inevitable (Y/y)?

Kot

  • Bay Watcher
  • 2 Patriotic 4 U
    • View Profile
    • Tiny Pixel Soldiers
Re: Armchair General General - /AGG
« Reply #1173 on: May 30, 2017, 01:14:22 am »

If the army was there, fighting literally the rest of the US, would they engage in bloody street-to-street firefights? Nope. The easiest thing to do would just be level the damn place. The ENTIRE populace is hostile, so long as you don't send anyone in, everything there is a target. So you can just drop an MOAB in the middle of San Francisco without even the slightest fuck given. Sure, after the war you have to repair it all, but both sides in this hypothetical scenario are basically pulling a "No surrender!" thing.
America is a big place, and you can't MOAB every goddamn town in the whole US. The size is too much, the amount of people is too much. Only thing I could see is use of biological weaponry, and not even that really, there is too much empty space to hide in, and gas masks and other NBC equipment can be purchased without permit, and is a part of regular >surviving nuclear war prepper pack.

And what is there to stop something like that happening? Fuck. All. How many AA guns and SAM missiles are in civilian use? How many F-22s?
After they raid their closest supply depot, guarded by weekend soldiers, they gain access to heavy equipment.

Not only would the whole US populace be fighting a well armed foe, they'd be fighting a well armed foe with total air superiority.
Air bases can be captured too, and planes can be destroyed on ground. Sure, army got tanks, but simplest molotovs are deadly to superfluous turbine engine of Abrams, people would get their hands on IEDs, soon there would be self-made weaponry, which, with the technological and resource base, would be much more effective than the already very effective scrap weapons of middle east guerillas, and as I said, people would soon get into depots to get the weapons in store there.
Soon, US armed forces would be reduced to Navy, which is honestly only thing that can't be killed easily enough by infantry, but all that navy also need supplies. Sure, the nuclear carriers and submarines can just float around for years, but ultimately people on there need food and water, and it depends if some other country is willing to supply them.

In any case, US armed forces would be kicked out of their own country, and the civilians would soon form their own armed forces with heavy equipment and whatnot.
Logged
Kot finishes his morning routine in the same way he always does, by burning a scale replica of Saint Basil's Cathedral on the windowsill.

Playergamer

  • Bay Watcher
  • Dance dance hadoken!
    • View Profile
Re: Armchair General General - /AGG
« Reply #1174 on: May 30, 2017, 12:25:54 pm »

"Total air superiority" for how long? How long would that last when nobody's making spare parts or jet fuel?

As MSH eloquently put it, the point of the Second Amendment is simply lowering the percent of the populace that needs to rise up to un-nation a dictatorship.
Logged
A troll, most likely...But I hate not feeding the animals. Let the games begin.
Ya fuckin' wanker.   

My sigtext

Urist McScoopbeard

  • Bay Watcher
  • Damnit Scoopz!
    • View Profile
Re: Armchair General General - /AGG
« Reply #1175 on: May 30, 2017, 01:57:18 pm »

Why would the military even fight if every citizen just took up arms? I mean, they're not going to fight their parents, their siblings, let alone kill them. Realistic or Fantastical, an "American Uprising" is just impossible. Also you're certainly not going to MOAB anything, destroying your own infrastructure is a quick way to get invaded mid-war or after the war is over.
Logged
This conversation is getting disturbing fast, disturbingly erotic.

Amperzand

  • Bay Watcher
  • Knight of Cerebus
    • View Profile
Re: Armchair General General - /AGG
« Reply #1176 on: May 30, 2017, 04:24:17 pm »

Another factor is that most of the nuclear arsenal is a bunch of widely-spaced and lightly-manned bunkers in flyover country. How long would it be before the first Minuteman silo got captured, even assuming a magical "NO SURRENDER" situation?
Logged
Muh FG--OOC Thread
Quote from: smirk
Quote from: Shadowlord
Is there a word that combines comedy with tragedy and farce?
Heiterverzweiflung. Not a legit German word so much as something a friend and I made up in German class once. "Carefree despair". When life is so fucked that you can't stop laughing.
http://www.collinsdictionary.com

martinuzz

  • Bay Watcher
  • High dwarf
    • View Profile
Re: Armchair General General - /AGG
« Reply #1177 on: May 30, 2017, 06:38:48 pm »

I'd wager that those lightly manned bunkers are heavily armoured, as to a point where using explosives to break them open would risk contaminating the site with radioactive material, and destroy the nukes you were after in the process, and stocked with supplies to last the guard team for more than just a few days.
Logged
Optimists have just used up the last bit of hope. Run for your lives!

Enjoy the freedom to explore the limits of your constraints

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=73719.msg1830479#msg1830479

Playergamer

  • Bay Watcher
  • Dance dance hadoken!
    • View Profile
Re: Armchair General General - /AGG
« Reply #1178 on: May 30, 2017, 06:44:01 pm »

Not necessarily.

Also, important to note that this drill was a simulation of a terrorist group raiding a silo to steal a warhead in peacetime. Not a security team resisting a much larger force without reinforcements.
Logged
A troll, most likely...But I hate not feeding the animals. Let the games begin.
Ya fuckin' wanker.   

My sigtext

Strife26

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Armchair General General - /AGG
« Reply #1179 on: May 30, 2017, 07:41:54 pm »

Not necessarily.

Also, important to note that this drill was a simulation of a terrorist group raiding a silo to steal a warhead in peacetime. Not a security team resisting a much larger force without reinforcements.

Only tangentially related and on-topic, but too good not to mention again.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/08/us/pacifists-who-broke-into-nuclear-weapon-facility-due-in-court.html?_r=1&ref=atomicweapons
Logged
This post likely did not make me any happier, tougher, smarter, or richer. Probably not a good usage of limited time and effort.

smjjames

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Armchair General General - /AGG
« Reply #1180 on: May 30, 2017, 07:48:53 pm »

Not necessarily.

Also, important to note that this drill was a simulation of a terrorist group raiding a silo to steal a warhead in peacetime. Not a security team resisting a much larger force without reinforcements.

Only tangentially related and on-topic, but too good not to mention again.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/08/us/pacifists-who-broke-into-nuclear-weapon-facility-due-in-court.html?_r=1&ref=atomicweapons


Ha, I remember that. It was a bunch of people who's only intention was to make a point about the security lapses and problems.
Logged

Loud Whispers

  • Bay Watcher
  • They said we have to aim higher, so we dug deeper.
    • View Profile
    • I APPLAUD YOU SIRRAH
Re: Armchair General General - /AGG
« Reply #1181 on: August 15, 2017, 02:41:39 am »

Looking at Russian steam trains and her nuclear train platforms got me thinking at how a post-WWIII map of "great powers" would look like. Aussie world power? Russian steam train lines of communication in a dead world? Chinese underground cities? Swissroaches emerging from their mountain hobbit-holes to dominate the world? Icelandic sagas 2: Nuclear viking boogaloo? How many nuclear weapons would be held in reserve, how much of previous government would survive their nation's explosion to rebuild or relaunch a post-hot war nuclear negotiations/2nd strike? If destruction occurred with today's reduced nuclear arsenals, would the surviving warlords seek to finish the job and complete nuclear destruction of their foes? Would mankind be able to repair global communications?

Kot

  • Bay Watcher
  • 2 Patriotic 4 U
    • View Profile
    • Tiny Pixel Soldiers
Re: Armchair General General - /AGG
« Reply #1182 on: August 15, 2017, 06:50:26 am »

Looking at Russian steam trains and her nuclear train platforms got me thinking at how a post-WWIII map of "great powers" would look like. Aussie world power? Russian steam train lines of communication in a dead world? Chinese underground cities? Swissroaches emerging from their mountain hobbit-holes to dominate the world? Icelandic sagas 2: Nuclear viking boogaloo? How many nuclear weapons would be held in reserve, how much of previous government would survive their nation's explosion to rebuild or relaunch a post-hot war nuclear negotiations/2nd strike? If destruction occurred with today's reduced nuclear arsenals, would the surviving warlords seek to finish the job and complete nuclear destruction of their foes? Would mankind be able to repair global communications?
Read books from Metro universe. Post-Apo papacy, Venezuelan Nazis, a lot of Russians, etc...
OH WAIT YOU CAN'T THEY DON'T GET TRANSLATED TO ENGLISH OH WELL.
Logged
Kot finishes his morning routine in the same way he always does, by burning a scale replica of Saint Basil's Cathedral on the windowsill.

Taricus

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Armchair General General - /AGG
« Reply #1183 on: August 15, 2017, 06:53:38 am »

Honestly I think it depends on who exactly gets nuked and where.
Logged
Quote from: evictedSaint
We sided with the holocaust for a fucking +1 roll

Loud Whispers

  • Bay Watcher
  • They said we have to aim higher, so we dug deeper.
    • View Profile
    • I APPLAUD YOU SIRRAH
Re: Armchair General General - /AGG
« Reply #1184 on: August 15, 2017, 08:21:31 am »

Read books from Metro universe. Post-Apo papacy, Venezuelan Nazis, a lot of Russians, etc...
OH WAIT YOU CAN'T THEY DON'T GET TRANSLATED TO ENGLISH OH WELL.
There's always the vidya
Though the interactions I'm talking about would be how do the vast post-war nations deal with one another and such. For example in the USA, the likelihood of the pre-war government surviving is pretty high, USA's got a lot of bunkers. However the likelihood of the USA being able to reclaim North America would be another question entirely. Reminds me of a US war exercise where they were practicing how the USA would deal with a large armed rebellion. In the contest between US and rebellion, neither won, who won instead were the warlords that arose in the crossfire. Could the remnant gov then take on the warlords? What would the lines of communication in a post-war USA look like, would its railways survive or be repairable in time to face a second strike?

Honestly I think it depends on who exactly gets nuked and where.
I run under the basis that vital military targets and economic centres would be the highest priority ones, so it would be safe to assume much of the Northern hemisphere's capitals are just ~gone~. Also assuming that the war happens under current US-Russian nuclear doctrine, with both sides preferring tactical nuclear weapons, keeping up to a third in reserve, so in countries with large strategic depth significantly large rural populations surviving is probable.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
UK is a good example for thought; most of the surviving populations would come from celtic highland areas or english fishing towns, with much of the UK's maritime forces being able to escape the initial superdeath. It would be amusing for example if Cornwall or the Isle of Man was to make a surprise comeback in colonizing the empty quarters of England. Would Swindon remain Swindon
« Last Edit: August 15, 2017, 08:23:33 am by Loud Whispers »
Logged
Pages: 1 ... 77 78 [79] 80 81 82