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Author Topic: Armchair General General - /AGG  (Read 80217 times)

Il Palazzo

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Re: Armchair General General - /AGG
« Reply #1185 on: August 15, 2017, 08:42:45 am »

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
UK is a good example for thought; most of the surviving populations would come from celtic highland areas or english fishing towns, with much of the UK's maritime forces being able to escape the initial superdeath. It would be amusing for example if Cornwall or the Isle of Man was to make a surprise comeback in colonizing the empty quarters of England. Would Swindon remain Swindon
Seriously? You used ~100 Mt as realistic yield for nuclear strike?
« Last Edit: August 15, 2017, 08:44:35 am by Il Palazzo »
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Kot

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Re: Armchair General General - /AGG
« Reply #1186 on: August 15, 2017, 08:54:49 am »

There's always the vidya
Though the interactions I'm talking about would be how do the vast post-war nations deal with one another and such. For example in the USA, the likelihood of the pre-war government surviving is pretty high, USA's got a lot of bunkers. However the likelihood of the USA being able to reclaim North America would be another question entirely. Reminds me of a US war exercise where they were practicing how the USA would deal with a large armed rebellion. In the contest between US and rebellion, neither won, who won instead were the warlords that arose in the crossfire. Could the remnant gov then take on the warlords? What would the lines of communication in a post-war USA look like, would its railways survive or be repairable in time to face a second strike?
Vidyas are restricted to Moscow, and soon maybe a bit more of Russia.
And yes, in the expanded universe you get post-war nations and shit. Mentioned Papal States are a thing, there are those organized Venezuelian Nazis (as in, actual honest to God nazis, with Swastikas and all) uncountable warlords, etc.
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Arx

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Re: Armchair General General - /AGG
« Reply #1187 on: August 15, 2017, 08:55:54 am »

Seriously? You used ~100 Mt as realistic yield for nuclear strike?

This kind of post is fairly unconstructive. It doesn't convey whether that's too low or too high, or give any idea of what you think a more reasonable number would be. In fact, the only information it conveys is that you disagree with LW, and that you consider it appropriate to belittle him (although you have not, in fact, provided any explanation as to why you are more correct than he is). It's neither polite nor helpful enough to cover over the rudeness.
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Puzzlemaker

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Re: Armchair General General - /AGG
« Reply #1188 on: August 15, 2017, 09:00:14 am »

So it looks like North Korea decided to back down, which is a nice sigh of relief for everyone.
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martinuzz

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Re: Armchair General General - /AGG
« Reply #1189 on: August 15, 2017, 09:12:17 am »


UK is a good example for thought; most of the surviving populations would come from celtic highland areas or english fishing towns, with much of the UK's maritime forces being able to escape the initial superdeath. It would be amusing for example if Cornwall or the Isle of Man was to make a surprise comeback in colonizing the empty quarters of England. Would Swindon remain Swindon
It's more likely that England will be renamed to the Scottish Lowlands
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Il Palazzo

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Re: Armchair General General - /AGG
« Reply #1190 on: August 15, 2017, 09:13:58 am »

Seriously? You used ~100 Mt as realistic yield for nuclear strike?

This kind of post is fairly unconstructive. It doesn't convey whether that's too low or too high, or give any idea of what you think a more reasonable number would be. In fact, the only information it conveys is that you disagree with LW, and that you consider it appropriate to belittle him (although you have not, in fact, provided any explanation as to why you are more correct than he is). It's neither polite nor helpful enough to cover over the rudeness.
Apologies, I was talking to LW. He's a jolly thick-skinned argumentative bastard, so I'm certain he won't get offended.
I assumed he knows what he's doing seeing how he chose that specific yield, so I was expecting an explanation for the choice without having to explain the basics first.

Here's some background for the onlookers: the largest ever detonated bomb was Tsar Bomba, at 50 Mt yield. In order to limit radioactive fallout, this was scaled down from the theoretical maximum of 100 Mt - the value LW used.
This kind of bomb is too large to be used in CBMs. It's also inefficient in how much energy is lost to the upper atmosphere as compared to smaller devices.
Both US and Russia reportedly use warheads with maximum yield around 1 Mt - two orders of magnitude lower.
Plug in 1 Mt into the same calculator here:
http://nuclearsecrecy.com/nukemap/
to see the effects. Choose airburst rather than groundburst - the latter is used only to penetrate bunkers (such as missile silos), since it produces reduced blast radius.
« Last Edit: August 15, 2017, 09:16:33 am by Il Palazzo »
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Helgoland

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Re: Armchair General General - /AGG
« Reply #1191 on: August 15, 2017, 09:27:29 am »

Global communications, at least on a basic level, should be very easy to keep up. Building a radio is actually simple as shit, you just have to know how - and that knowledge is widespread enough to survive. Similar considerations apply for many other electronic devices. Modern cryptography, too, can in principle be done by hand or with just a primitive calculator, which means that sensitive information could still be relayed quickly over large distances.

Similarly, vehicles not dependent on fossil fuel - think bicycles, rollerblades - are (relatively) easy to make and use, and give a great advantage over even Napoleonic times. Chemistry on a 19th century level will stick around, too, up to and including primitive antibiotics. Germ theory, too, is something that makes life much easier without requiring advanced materials or long supply chains. Easy steel making, knowledge about alloys, techniques like employing sacrificial anodes for preventing corrosion: All there, all easy-ish even after the collapse. Modern crops will still be around, together with the knowledge of fertilization and soil chemistry - and that's not even considering the fact that you could definitely get farming equipment to run on wood instead of oil products.


It'll take us a while - say, fifty years - to once again send satellites to orbit, or produce computers like our modern ones, or put together fighter jets, rockets, aircraft carriers. But once the radiation dies down and you've gotten used to not being able to contact your friends on the other side of the earth, it'll be relatively fine. Hell, at least in Western Europe there will be a strong desire to rebuild the nations as they were before, due to them being largely defined via language and ethnicity, so larger government structures will assemble quickly, and with them, reliable trade over long distances will resume. Add that to the fact that the European populace is on average much more well-educated than that of the not-First world, and I'd wager you'd have a fair chance of seeing colonialist patterns resume after a few decades as we once again try to suck the oil out from under the Arabs.
Seriously? You used ~100 Mt as realistic yield for nuclear strike?

This kind of post is fairly unconstructive. It doesn't convey whether that's too low or too high, or give any idea of what you think a more reasonable number would be. In fact, the only information it conveys is that you disagree with LW, and that you consider it appropriate to belittle him (although you have not, in fact, provided any explanation as to why you are more correct than he is). It's neither polite nor helpful enough to cover over the rudeness.
Actually it's quite clear that 100 Mt is too much*, and it's also highly improbable that LW doesn't know that, so it's a perfectly reasonable calling-out of laziness or knowing exaggeration on LW's part.
Even if it was not clear that 100 Mt is too much, it's still pretty much self-evident that not all nukes would be of the same size. You really don't have to know all that much about nuclear weapons or nuclear strategy to realize it's a bad map. Not that it's easy to come up with a good one, but he should've at least slapped on a disclaimer 'very rough approximation' or something.

*Especially considering that pretty much all the nuke-owning countries are moving to smaller bombs that are delivered more precisely.

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Loud Whispers

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Re: Armchair General General - /AGG
« Reply #1192 on: August 15, 2017, 09:40:02 am »

Seriously? You used ~100 Mt as realistic yield for nuclear strike?
I didn't make the chart fam, it was made by real estate agents I found on google. I do not yet have the time to drop tactical nukes on London ;D

Il Palazzo

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Re: Armchair General General - /AGG
« Reply #1193 on: August 15, 2017, 09:52:52 am »

I was wondering what the price tags meant. So it's a scare-map intended to goad people into buying properties in places outside fantasy-scenario blast radii? Sounds legit.

It's always good to provide sources for one's claims, bub.
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Loud Whispers

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Re: Armchair General General - /AGG
« Reply #1194 on: August 15, 2017, 10:13:20 am »

Sauce is for scrubs

Egan_BW

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Re: Armchair General General - /AGG
« Reply #1195 on: August 15, 2017, 01:54:19 pm »

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Loud Whispers

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Dorsidwarf

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Re: Armchair General General - /AGG
« Reply #1197 on: August 15, 2017, 06:42:56 pm »

Our words are backed with nuclear shitposts!
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sluissa

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Re: Armchair General General - /AGG
« Reply #1198 on: August 21, 2017, 08:13:21 am »

So apparently US Navy destroyer crews need to go back to driving school.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-40995829
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Egan_BW

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Re: Armchair General General - /AGG
« Reply #1199 on: September 27, 2018, 08:15:41 pm »

Hmm. Eh, it's only like a year old~
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50 medieval European peasants vs 50 first-world-country citizens from 2018. Both sides are armed with cheap steel spears and have no real combat experience. Who wins and why?
Do the modern folks beat out the medieval ones with the strength of being bigger and less malnourished? Or will they be at a disadvantage due to being coddled and poorly-exercised? Maybe the currentyear-ians can vaguely recall some battle strategies from high school history?
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