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Author Topic: Armchair General General - /AGG  (Read 66953 times)

MonkeyHead

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Re: Armchair General General - /AGG
« Reply #375 on: October 02, 2014, 04:20:05 pm »

US Tactics when meeting EU cities? Simple. Bomb the crap outta them from the air. Use armour and mechanised infantry with close air support to take main road nodes and form an encirclement. Follow up with lots of artilliery, then on vehicle yomp to city centres, or on foot where vehicles can not go. A horrible, horrible fucking bloodbath on both sides. This assumes the need to take them, and that investing in a siege is off the table.
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Loud Whispers

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Re: Armchair General General - /AGG
« Reply #376 on: October 02, 2014, 05:04:57 pm »

US Tactics when meeting EU cities? Simple. Bomb the crap outta them from the air. Use armour and mechanised infantry with close air support to take main road nodes and form an encirclement. Follow up with lots of artilliery, then on vehicle yomp to city centres, or on foot where vehicles can not go. A horrible, horrible fucking bloodbath on both sides. This assumes the need to take them, and that investing in a siege is off the table.
Yeah, have fun trying to drive any armour through the ruins of a European city whilst under attack from enemy airpower and ground forces. Cars have difficulty navigating these streets at their most pristine and efficient, a determined defender with armour, barricades and fortifications of their own? There'd be an anti-tank weapon behind every window, or close enough. Stalingrad 2 electric boogaloo.

Helgoland

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Re: Armchair General General - /AGG
« Reply #377 on: October 02, 2014, 05:46:42 pm »

Stalingrad 2 electric boogaloo.
This. Also, many Europeans already loathe the US with a passion; in case of a US attack, the American soldiers would have to deal with a massive guerilla movement as well as Europe's proper military forces.
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mainiac

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Re: Armchair General General - /AGG
« Reply #378 on: October 02, 2014, 06:44:27 pm »

I cant for the life of me figure out why you'd want to fight for a single city.  So much easier to just hit any military targets from outside and move on to the next city without waiting for surrender.

Iraq featured house to house fighting because the US was trying to literally police the place.  If the US pulled out of Fallujah when the going got tough then it's citizens would kill each other on sectarian lines and generally do a lot of stuff the US didn't want.  But it's not like the citizens of Paris or London will start killing each other to stick it to the Americans.
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BlindKitty

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Re: Armchair General General - /AGG
« Reply #379 on: October 03, 2014, 02:36:37 am »

Yeah, I would say that besieging the cities is the way to go. I don't know about other European cities, but for example Warsaw takes a good half of it's water supply from just one huge well; a good GBU-16 Paveway II or a couple would effectively shut it down. A few more at other key facilities, especially natural gas/electric power supply and just give it time. After most civilians leave the place due to lack of everything needed to survive, just start cutting through the city block by block, starting with artillery, aerial bombardments, and attacking along less-fortified axes of approach.

Still costly, lengthy and problematic, but the same is to be said about every other place in the world where there are cities, honestly.
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Guardian G.I.

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Re: Armchair General General - /AGG
« Reply #380 on: October 03, 2014, 01:22:30 pm »

Maybe use the tactics developed in WWII?
Bomb everything with air strikes and artillery? Possible I guess, but not a full solution.

I don't know how labrynthine the cities and towns in Iraq and Afghanistan are, but urban warfare is still urban warfare.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Bagdhad's not as neat of a grid as many American cities are, but they're still rather neat.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Then you get cities like Paris where you should basically just kill yourself already.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
A look at London that's all over the fucking place.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Berlin ruins the combo by having a neat city. Casuals.

The vast series of underground tunnels, metros, sewers and WWII bunkers are also not to be forgotten.

For comparison, Eastern European cities:

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Ukrainian Ranger

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Re: Armchair General General - /AGG
« Reply #381 on: October 03, 2014, 01:55:25 pm »

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WealthyRadish

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Re: Armchair General General - /AGG
« Reply #382 on: October 03, 2014, 03:51:51 pm »

The city has experience of being an arena for urban combat - it was almost completely destroyed during the onslaught of very civilized Eurointegrators in the 1940s.

Mine too.
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Helgoland

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Re: Armchair General General - /AGG
« Reply #383 on: October 03, 2014, 07:32:43 pm »

Hey!
Alright, I kinda do... It's a beautiful city, okay? And I want to be able to visit without a visum...
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Ukrainian Ranger

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Re: Armchair General General - /AGG
« Reply #384 on: October 04, 2014, 02:36:50 am »

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The city has experience of being an arena for urban combat - it was almost completely destroyed during the onslaught of very civilized Eurointegrators in the 1940s.

Well, most damage was done by Red Army when they recaptured Minsk.
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Re: Armchair General General - /AGG
« Reply #385 on: October 04, 2014, 06:31:19 am »

Quote
The city has experience of being an arena for urban combat - it was almost completely destroyed during the onslaught of very civilized Eurointegrators in the 1940s.

Well, most damage was done by Red Army when they recaptured Minsk.
I should note that large areas of the city were destroyed by the fires caused by Nazi German air raids on the 24th of June 1941.
Some districts were ruined, some were not, as this photo shows:

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Re: Armchair General General - /AGG
« Reply #386 on: October 04, 2014, 06:44:40 am »

I cant for the life of me figure out why you'd want to fight for a single city.  So much easier to just hit any military targets from outside and move on to the next city without waiting for surrender.
Don't underestimate pride and symbolism. Just because it's a good idea doesn't mean its going to be carried out. The pride of a person could lead him to want to capture this or that. Also if you don't occupy the cities they may become havens for the remnants of defeated armies. Also a cities fall can be a symbol that a country is losing and may lower morale.

Also if you seriously want to test this conflict get Men of War with some mods like ''modern mod'' and duke it out. Its a game I know but you could try it for the laugh. Set yourself some rules in it too like only what the would actually do on a battlefield and hey presto inaccurate simulator. Watch the glorious chaos unfold.

Helgoland

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Re: Armchair General General - /AGG
« Reply #387 on: October 04, 2014, 07:13:04 am »

I cant for the life of me figure out why you'd want to fight for a single city.  So much easier to just hit any military targets from outside and move on to the next city without waiting for surrender.
Don't underestimate pride and symbolism. Just because it's a good idea doesn't mean its going to be carried out. The pride of a person could lead him to want to capture this or that.
There's a good argument to be made that Hitler went for Stalingrad mostly because it carried Stalin's name. Not that it wasn't of strategic importance as well, but that alone wouldn't have justified makinng the city the slaughterhouse it became.
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Arguably he's already a progressive, just one in the style of an enlightened Kaiser.
I'm going to do the smart thing here and disengage. This isn't a hill I paticularly care to die on.

LordSlowpoke

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Re: Armchair General General - /AGG
« Reply #388 on: October 04, 2014, 07:17:42 am »

nah, hitler went for moscow on that

stalingrad was pretty much the hinge on which the southern parts of the union (baku oilfields, primarily) stood

and that was a damn rich resource that would be pretty tricky to bomb to boot (closest allied bases would be in the remaining parts of soviet union or all the way in iraq)
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Ukrainian Ranger

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Re: Armchair General General - /AGG
« Reply #389 on: October 04, 2014, 07:44:59 am »

I think if Germany went for Stalingrad instead of Moscow in 1941 the war would be very different.
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