Bay 12 Games Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

Author Topic: Opinion: If the "Dark Knight" was the base of the DCU, it would be > than MCU  (Read 619 times)

roseheart

  • Bay Watcher
  • I'm Game
    • View Profile
    • SquadCraft: Tides of Dark Chocolate

I mostly want to hear others opinions on this. I will start off with a few cases and maybe post more later. Here goes.

The DK trilogy is Better than the Iron Man trilogy.
This is pretty obvious and I even liked Iron Man 3. I'd even see a 4th. Iron Man is the base of the MCU and Tony is a good Marvel analog to what Bruce is for DC. Wealthy, Intelligent, Prepared to the Nth degree. However Bruce is already a more interesting character. He seems like he's be outmatched by Tony's inspired tech, but of the two I'd bet on the bat to say... take down Superman. He is both less 'super' AND more capable a character, and the Nolan movies do this justice. He makes a lot of mistakes, seeing Bale's Bruce having to rise to the high bar set by his villains, creates an energy and hunger to see what will happen next in an almost Rube Goldberg style of events that is thrilling and captivating. Iron Man parades around as a badass, Batman is a symbol.

It would have helped to ground Superman.

I LOVED Man of Steel... until our boyscout threw a tantrum, as well as his enemy, through city buildings. All so Batman could have a (valid) reason to oppose him in the next movie. Hmm.

If that movie had a more sane ending, I would like to have seen the Bale Batman pair up(or off against) the Cavill Superman. I actually assumed this to be in the works. But instead we had BvS. I LOVE going to the movies. But I LITERALLY FELL ASLEEP in the middle of it. Lex was a kid. It was weird. And angsty. And Bale-less.

The DK Trilogy sets up More Movies!
We end Rises with Gordon Levitt just becoming Robin. And with Nightwing and Red Hood's popularity(and Gordon's age) there was potential for an interesting evolution of his own. Also, he was game:
“It’s amazing and so wonderful to be part of a film like [The Dark Knight Rises],” Levitt said in an interview. “But as far as Robin is concerned, that’s not up to me. I don’t have the rights to that character. If there’s a script I find inspiring and a filmmaker I have a connection with, I’m interested.” sauce

In conclusion(for now), I think the current DCU(with WW an exception) is a bit silly and very bloated.
I think the tone of the Dark Knight trilogy(which to a large degree, Man of Steel carried the torch), that start would have set a trajectory that was more grounded, inspired, and would have had more seats in the theater than the now monster that I love, Marvel.

...But when I hear back talk about DCU, I don't disagree, I just don't think it had to be that way.
Logged
"[Masahiro Sakurai] deserves a Nobel peace prize for bringing everyone together ☮"
-YouTube commenter

scriver

  • Bay Watcher
  • City streets ain't got much pity
    • View Profile

Nah. First Baleman movie was ok. Second was pretty great. Third movie was awful. It was so incredibly dumb.

Besides, Bale was never good as either Bruce or Batman. It was only the rest of the movies that carried his performance. And his Batman voice is the most ridiculous thing and I'm literally giggling at it whenever I see it on the tele these days.
Logged
Love, scriver~

Urist McScoopbeard

  • Bay Watcher
  • Damnit Scoopz!
    • View Profile

Batman Begins & The Dark Knight are really excellent movies in their own right, but they're just pretty self-contained. Also, Superman is just the worst superhero for anything, ever. The Dark Knight Rises is lackluster, and honestly... it's like a decade later... I'm not super interested in the antics of Robin & Co. in the aftermath of OG Batman's departure. It COULD be done extremely well, but... comic book people are just not good with that kind of story.

Maybe if they brought in Alan Moore or something... Of course, DC already fucked it all up with Suicide Squad.
Logged
This conversation is getting disturbing fast, disturbingly erotic.

roseheart

  • Bay Watcher
  • I'm Game
    • View Profile
    • SquadCraft: Tides of Dark Chocolate

Suicide Squad.
I'd say it is the second best DCEU movie, after Wonder Woman. Man of Steel would maybe be higher if it stuck the landing better. Panic Squad was the best Harley Quin since Batman: The Animated Series, and Deadshot, as portrayed by Will Smith, was the first Batman villain I actually sympathized with. I stood and clapped for that movie... I feel like most of the criticism is from people that didn't actually see the movie.
Logged
"[Masahiro Sakurai] deserves a Nobel peace prize for bringing everyone together ☮"
-YouTube commenter

scriver

  • Bay Watcher
  • City streets ain't got much pity
    • View Profile

I'd say Suicide Squad wasn't even a movie, it was just a series of scenes. I feel it is the weakest of the new DC universe movies. Yes, even weaker than Man O' Steel and Batman Varses Suparman. And this is despite the bonus points it gets for starring a Swedish actor.

Will Smith did very good as Deadshot though. Robbie portrayed Harley Quine well too. Thinking back at it I don't really feel there was much fault with any of the actors' perfomances. The things I don't like about it is primarily in the structuring and the script (and likely direction) of it.
Logged
Love, scriver~

Scarlet_Avenger

  • Bay Watcher
  • Cancels drink: Too insane
    • View Profile

A major problem with the DC movies is the overall tone and the consistency of the film in maintaining itself. The reason that Dark Knight is a fantastic movie is that it set set out to do one thing well. The movie started somewhat dark and serious, and maintained that throughout. A film like Suicide Squad or BvS just doesn't have a good consistency, and the tone is jumbled by being altered from one scene to the next. Cinematography in the DC movies seriously went down the gutter after Nolan left and Synder took over, although it's been recovering lately.

Transitions and setup shots were just absent in SS and BvS, like, holy crap. A main reason that those movies don't feel right is that the viewer is jerked around from one scene to the next, with too many close ups of certain characters, which doesn't let the viewer take in the setting, at least for a moment, and understand the context of what is going on.

That being said, if Nolan stayed and the DC movies retained their cinematography throughout, they would be all the better for it. In addition, the reason that Marvel has succeeded so much commercially is that their movies are a lot more light-hearted and fun. What really crucified the DC movies for me was the constant forcing of the movie to be dark, because, well the Dark Knight movie was dark and it was amazing. If they had contrasted Batman's dark character with Superman's fun and noble figure, there could have been a very interesting dynamic between the two to rival Marvel's characters who seem to have no reason to quarrel with each other.

I think the DC movies really had potential but it just completely fell apart once they decided to be the dark and edgy folks, and not try to create interesting character dynamics. Marvel doesn't have stellar character dynamics, but they are there in basic form, but with more fun and humor. You can't blame that on the actors, though, the scripts and directing were terrible, and no actor can save a script + director's incompetence.
Logged
Quote
Well given that we started building computers inside of DF years ago, it's really only been a matter of time until the dwarves figured out how to utilize them for their own purposes.

Skynet has nothing on DF 40.01. Frankly, I'd be less horrified at living with John Connor than anyone named Urist.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Urist McScoopbeard

  • Bay Watcher
  • Damnit Scoopz!
    • View Profile

Suicide Squad.
I'd say it is the second best DCEU movie, after Wonder Woman. Man of Steel would maybe be higher if it stuck the landing better. Panic Squad was the best Harley Quin since Batman: The Animated Series, and Deadshot, as portrayed by Will Smith, was the first Batman villain I actually sympathized with. I stood and clapped for that movie... I feel like most of the criticism is from people that didn't actually see the movie.

From a technical standpoint Suicide Squad is a "yikes" film. The editing is atrocious. The plot is... iffy. The acting is great! *but some of the characters suck anyways and there is a lot of throwaway stuff. The best part of the film is when they're in prison at the start. After that, it's the emergency line to awfulville. But ya, they bungled it BEYOND belief.
Logged
This conversation is getting disturbing fast, disturbingly erotic.

Xvareon

  • Bay Watcher
  • Alias: Setokaiva
    • View Profile

Heh. I actually really enjoyed Suicide Squad, and didn't feel they 'bungled' the themes or direction at all, really. They put together a slapdash group of villains, and then gave them the chance to be heroes for a day. That's a fairly original concept to me. The execution was spot-on, though. Plot was very comprehensible, what with the whole group at first being held together just by Gates and her controlling b****ery, and Flagg's sheer professionalism; and then it slowly morphed into them all sticking together in the end anyway. As for tone, of course there is gonna be some good honest crazy mixed in with the tension and dark themes. No single theme overrides the others, though, which is what really impressed me with the movie. They did a very delicate dance with letting the characters be themselves, and at the same time making sure everyone understands these are still villains, and this is still an extremely dark and dangerous situation they're in. I'd definitely watch the whole thing again from start to finish!
Logged
The only difference between male and female dwarves is that the other gets distracted for a second after giving birth.
Xvareon plays: Master of Magic (1994)!

MrRoboto75

  • Bay Watcher
  • Belongs in the Trash!
    • View Profile

I thought SS was a little dumb.  We need a team that can take down a hypothetical(?) evil superman.  Let's take these villains, that basically just shoot guns w/ little to no powers, to fight superman.  Superman, the guy near immune to bullets.  Let's have them fight a near-god with their guns.  That said, enchantress is actually a core member of the SS in comics, but I didn't know that until way after seeing the movie.

Joker is alright, I don't mind his odd design, but he serves nearly no purpose in the film.  I think his design style was done better in Injustice 2.

Heck, maybe Injustice would be a better base.  Although I've heard the comics can be very hit and miss.

And why aren't they fighting Darkseid in Justice League?  Instead we just got one of his ponzis?
Logged
I consume
I purchase
I consume again

scriver

  • Bay Watcher
  • City streets ain't got much pity
    • View Profile

Gotta warm him up for Justice Champion's League.
Logged
Love, scriver~

EnigmaticHat

  • Bay Watcher
  • I vibrate, I die, I vibrate again
    • View Profile

My opinion on TDK is that it has a magic that couldn't have been done on purpose nor replicated easily.  All of the Nolan trilogy movies have messy, complicated scripts that re-interpret DC characters in ways that are worse than the originals.  The first and third movies are essentially from a different universe than the second movie and do their level best to ruin it.  Batman treating his no-kill rule as a hard line is necessary to the second movie... but in the other movies Bale's Batman is one of the most lethal in modern memory.  TDK easily could have been a complicated, overly dark and pretentious film with a Nietzsche wannabe villain.  It wasn't that, I loved TDK with no reservations.  It all meshed perfectly.  But with that script and Nolan/Bale... it could have been kind of shit.  The movie's greatness relied on Heath Ledger and boy did he deliver.

Oh, and the first movie had a whole district of Gotham city go insane, and the consequences were never addressed in TDK.  Instead we had the Gothic aesthetic of Batman Begins abandoned for modern high rises, implying Gotham got better instead of worse.  TDK really does work better as a standalone than part of a trilogy.
Logged
"T-take this non-euclidean geometry, h-humanity-baka. I m-made it, but not because I l-li-l-like you or anything! I just felt s-sorry for you, b-baka."
You misspelled seance.  Are possessing Draignean?  Are you actually a ghost in the shell? You have to tell us if you are, that's the rule

roseheart

  • Bay Watcher
  • I'm Game
    • View Profile
    • SquadCraft: Tides of Dark Chocolate

I didn't see Justice League yet, did I mention?
Logged
"[Masahiro Sakurai] deserves a Nobel peace prize for bringing everyone together ☮"
-YouTube commenter

ChairmanPoo

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile

Nah. First Baleman movie was ok. Second was pretty great. Third movie was awful. It was so incredibly dumb.

Besides, Bale was never good as either Bruce or Batman. It was only the rest of the movies that carried his performance. And his Batman voice is the most ridiculous thing and I'm literally giggling at it whenever I see it on the tele these days.
*grunt*throat cancer!*grunt*


But yeah, I tend to agree with scriver overall. Movie #III was pretty shitty. 1 and 2 were decent but with flaws. 2 is probably the most rewatchable one.
Logged
I recently became a objectivist, I am reasonably certain that means all my opinions are now universal fact.
Everyone sucks at everything. Until they don't. Not sucking is a product of time invested.

Max™

  • Bay Watcher
  • [CULL:SQUARE]
    • View Profile

This opinion is in error because the only thing DC has ever done right was the animated universe, which would have been a fun and exciting movieverse if transitioned properly.

Good luck there.
Logged
Engraved here is a rendition of an image of the Dwarf Fortress learning curve. All craftsdwarfship is of the highest quality. It depicts an obsidian overhang which menaces with spikes of obsidian and tears. Carved on the overhang is an image of Toady One and the players. The players are curled up in a fetal position. Toady One is laughing. The players are burning.
The VectorCurses+1 tileset strikes the square set and the severed part sails off in an arc!

George_Chickens

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile

I dunno. Batman Begins definitely wasn't the best film out there on the market, it was just okay at best. The Dark Knight Rises was just awful and disappointing as all hell after the pretty great Dark Knight. I will never forget "You're a big guy!" "FOR YOU!"
Logged
Bay12: Where a discussion about a man's anus manage to be Lovecraftian.
you sir, deserve a medal. this is the dawn of a new age of child trauma.