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[forsaken1111]

-snip-

Please stop. It's neither clever nor necessary.

[Urist McScoopbeard]

-snip-

Please stop. It's neither clever nor necessary.

Please stop. People keep posting in this thread, when the game is dead. If I don't remind them of that through fun use of.gifs, no one will.

[Malus]

Maybe people want to discuss the game and what happened to it, taking into account new evidence? Why are you unilaterally trying to stifle discussion? If you don't want to participate in the thread, then feel free to leave it for those who do!

[Egan_BW]

It is impossible to abstain from any thread on your "show new replies" page. This is the forumgoers curse.

[forsaken1111]

-snip-

Please stop. It's neither clever nor necessary.

Please stop. People keep posting in this thread, when the game is dead. If I don't remind them of that through fun use of.gifs, no one will.

We're discussing a recently released statement about the game. Your gifs add nothing to the discussion. If you're not going to participate in the discussion and have no interest in the game, simply refrain from posting at all.

[Urist McScoopbeard]

Okay, then let me add this to the discussion. I loved the idea of this game--I didn't back, I rarely do, because kickstarter really just doesn't work--but I let myself have high hopes for this game. It's annoying to see people trying to dissect and CONTINUE to ask what went wrong, when I think it's fairly obvious. Guy bit off more than he could chew--we'll never know whether his skill or enthusiasm ran out first, not for sure. What we do know is this: It's dead. It's fucking dead. Every keeps talking about it like there's something we can change--or looking to persecute the dev further. Stop it. STOP. It's over, and I'm sure the dev is scarred to the point of never wanting to develop another game again. Why must we continue to drag it's inevitable death out--it's painful, and it certainly is annoying. New evidence? This is just a confirmation of what we already knew or could guess at. Just let it die!

EDIT: This isn't some "released statement" this is just some guy digging deeper than most, not some "update" on the status of the game.

[forsaken1111]

It was a statement released by someone who dug into the map editor is all I meant, I didn't mean to imply it was from the developer.

I do agree with you about kickstarter, I didn't back this either and it's rare that I back anything on KS. With two exceptions I have been satisfied with everything I HAVE backed on there, but the total number of projects I've backed is less than two dozen.

I still believe the guy had every intention of making the game but got bogged down trying to make the expanded scope from the stretch goals happen. Regardless, it is not up to you to tell us when we should stop discussing the game. We're allowed to talk about it as long as we wish so I say again, if you're not interested then simply don't post. We don't need your memes and we don't need you to tell us how it's 'totally dead guys please stop'.

[ChairmanPoo]

I still believe the guy had every intention of making the game but got bogged down trying to make the expanded scope from the stretch goals happen.

... seriously? after a guy actually dug into the code and proved that it was all smoke and mirrors?

The guy is a scammer. The sooner you face it the better off you will be.

No really, I mean it. I'm reminded of something someone posted elsewhere: some people taken in by confidence tricksters keep believing in them even after they have been exposed and sentenced. Some psychological mechanism linked to sunken cost fallacy. I think your faith in this guy is related to that.  Come on forsaken1111, look at the facts. They lied from minute one.

[forsaken1111]

Sunken cost fallacy requires me to have a sunk cost, which I don't in this case. I never gave the guy a dime and I don't much care about the overall outcome of the project beyond the fact that it looked like it would be a lot of fun to play. I actually wrote up half of a design document for making my own game based on his idea. I'm just waiting for some kind of resolution. I understand the arguments both ways but I'm not really convinced yet. Nobody has conclusive evidence, just supposition and hearsay.

So far, in my opinion, the more likely scenario is that scope creep destroyed his work ethic and now he's unable to face failure. If he scammed anyone, he did a really poor job.

[Malus]

If he intended to scam everyone from the start it's not too difficult to explain his actions. Up until that analysis of the disassembly, I was willing to believe he just mismanaged the project, but I don't think that's a particularly likely scenario now.

If you raise $80k+ with a scam, presumably you want to keep the money. And the only way to do that is to cash out and flee the country... or convince people that you tried, failed, and spent it all, and then hope that most people aren't going to pursue things any further. To that end, dragging "development" on as long as possible is very useful: more backers lose interest and write off their investment, and the ones that stick are placated with increasingly less frequent updates. Eventually you want to stop selling preorders too, because people who've recently given you money will have a much easier time issuing chargebacks.

The fact that so many people still believe that the game wasn't a scam shows that this strategy would work. In terms of effort, it is much, much easier to rig some screenshots and videos, write some forum posts, and release a broken map editor than it is to actually build a working game. Besides insulating you from legal action and chargebacks, it's also less harmful to your reputation: if you make it obvious that you've scammed everyone out of their money, you're going to have dozens of gaming websites writing articles with your name posted front and center calling you a scammer.

Consider everything we've seen of TWS. Do the more recent updates look like the result of 2+ years of steady development?

[Toady One]

(Removed a few images.  Please consult forum guidelines regarding image posts.)

[Darkmere]

Man. This thread just keeps on giving.

[Cthulhu]

I figure it'll be locked before too long.

I also don't think it was a straight up scam, this would be a pretty stupid way to scam when he could've just taken the money and run.  I think it was more "I'll fake some vids so I can get the money to make the game for real"

[forsaken1111]

I figure it'll be locked before too long.

I also don't think it was a straight up scam, this would be a pretty stupid way to scam when he could've just taken the money and run.  I think it was more "I'll fake some vids so I can get the money to make the game for real"

Which turned into "Oh fuck these stretch goals are harder than I originally thought" and the realization that he had no time management skills and a horde of toxic backers realizing he may have exaggerated his original product.

[ChairmanPoo]

It's not the stretch goals. He didn't even have the base game. He was full of steaming piles.