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[Gojira1000]

In a shorter form than most here:

Good stuff in MW. But (IMHO) from a design perspective, a mod should ideally polish a game's weak point(s), tweak it, tune it - not be a DLC pack. Especially not a game as huge as DF. It's a bit like adding more appendices to War and Peace as opposed to editing it for length. I prefer the second option.

so, like lots of it, but it needs focus.

[Button]

I think Tolkien did more to invent, or at least re-invent, Elves and Dwarves than people realize too, which as a scholar he came to regret.  From the "Letters of J. R. R. Tolkien" collection;

Dwarves I'll grant, though Tolkien kept his dwarves close enough to the Norse dwarfs that I can squint and be satisfied; but DF elves are nothing like Tolkien elves. Tolkien's elves were taller and stronger and pretty much better-in-every-way than humans; they were metalworkers and jewelers and ship-builders of great renown; and while they tended to build their dwellings in such a way that they seemed like part of the local nature, they weren't known for getting pissy about other races cutting down trees, nor the kind of druidic magic that DF elves use. And then there's the giant war animals as their only military advantage, and the matriarchy, and the cannibalism... The only really Tolkienian thing about them is that we fear their archers, but honestly I think that's more attributable to the ranged weapon power bug Toady fixed recently.

I mean, elven sites have them living literally in the branches of their trees. Not in homes that they build in the trees as part their aesthetic sense - they're out in the open where bogeymen can slaughter them in their sleep. They're essentially just hippies.

[sayke]

I too am amazed that more people don't know about Masterwork - IMHO it's one of the best mods for any game ever. It's balanced, coherent, has a ton of content, modular, and quite bug-free. What more could you want? =D

[Putnam]

I too am amazed that more people don't know about Masterwork - IMHO it's one of the best mods for any game ever. It's balanced, coherent, has a ton of content, modular, and quite bug-free. What more could you want? =D

It's not that balanced, pretty damn incoherent, I'll give you those two, and the fact that my stuff is used in it tells me that that last one is an outright lie.

[Baffler]

Standard materials are nice too, but for playing a modded game, I prefer a total conversion. Rise of the Mushroom Kingdom, Deon's Fallout, Nchardahrk, and the SCP mod are some of my favorites (though I never managed to actually contain any SCP for long.) I've been meaning to try the Homestuck mod, but the universe isn't really my cup of tea. My point is, there's much more out there than Masterwork, and it doesn't really get enough attention.

[Zanzetkuken The Great]

My point is, there's much more out there than Masterwork, and it doesn't really get enough attention.

So my analogy about it being similar to a black hole in the second actual paragraph in this post was more correct than I thought?  Huh.

[Putnam]

SI've been meaning to try the Homestuck mod, but the universe isn't really my cup of tea.

you won't like it

[Ant]

My experiences with MW have been positive; I've played it pretty consistently along with vanilla. I can't see really 'DLCness', as the MW IMO is an overhaul, substantially changing DF in particular mid-late game. It also offers more options in adv mode, and can't wait the day MW gets ported to 40.xx.

That said, there's lot of things I often simply switch off in MW. Warpstone, diseases, the new intruders are the most constant 'offs', as the complex metals and rearranged workshops tend to still offer enough challenge in themselves. At times also castes went to bin; religion is on but often passed in order to get some other industries to work; And I personally detest high magic in DF, so warlocks get the boot. These are of course personal preferences and can thankfully be switched off. New launcher is more consistent in information and options' descriptions more easily available.

Waiting for next version!

[Getix Kain]

It would be great if some features from MW could be imported as "standard package" into DF Vanilla.

Are they easy to export to a Vanilla DF?

[Arbinire]

I used to play masterwork quite a bit some time ago, and I am amazed at how much work you have put into it Meph.  That said, having tried picking it up a few times the months leading up to the .40.01 release, I do feel like it has become rather bloated and unfocused.  The GUI options are a bit daunting now as well because of how many different options there are and I find that it takes nearly as much time going through all of them and setting everything how I want it as it does to manually tweak the .ini and raws

To be perfectly honest though I'd say this post is a bit pointless.  Since it's a mod and obviously a labor of love on your part Meph, it shouldn't matter so much what others think or what this or the reddit community thinks, whether is an overpositive echo chamber, or a mudslinging hate rally.  What matters is what you think about what you've done and how you like it.  If others do, that's a bonus, if not, well, there's no wrong opinion on this matter.

[Gnomeknows]

To be perfectly honest though I'd say this post is a bit pointless.  Since it's a mod and obviously a labor of love on your part Meph, it shouldn't matter so much what others think or what this or the reddit community thinks, whether is an overpositive echo chamber, or a mudslinging hate rally.  What matters is what you think about what you've done and how you like it.  If others do, that's a bonus, if not, well, there's no wrong opinion on this matter.

just incase anyone reads the quote and gets deterred, it seemed to me, and I could be wrong, that Mephs labor of love as you put it, was in creating a mod FOR the community here, and he values the feedback, good or bad for the purpose of shaping the next version into something new players would want to jump into and try.  So if he does read all this and can look objectively at everyones posts(and having read this, no one here has used this thread to bash, only to give honest opinions) then I think this thread could be very useful for him.  Just my 2 cents.

[Wastedlabor]

Tried it once, but I prefer something with a more canon feeling.

[Repseki]

Before the new version of vanilla I was playing MW quite a bit on and off, but I'm not sure if I missed anything in the last few updates it's had. But here are my poorly organized, likely rambling, hopefully understandable thoughts.

I too am amazed that more people don't know about Masterwork - IMHO it's one of the best mods for any game ever. It's balanced, coherent, has a ton of content, modular, and quite bug-free. What more could you want? =D

It's not that balanced, pretty damn incoherent, I'll give you those two, and the fact that my stuff is used in it tells me that that last one is an outright lie.

This made me chuckle, so I thought it had to be quoted. I think I lean towards Putnam's view on it a little, although I think it's a great mod that does a lot of cool things; some great, some good, some a little iffy but usually optional. And has quite a bit of flexibility when it comes to choosing what features you want to use and which you don't.

The standardized materials are nice, and definitely helped me keep my sanity when I was newer to DF. But now that I've been playing 40.xx I somewhat wish there was a compromise between standardizing everything and having some of the more specialty creatures keep their materials (Semi/Mega Beasts, Trolls, maybe the sentient races, etc). That way things are a bit more manageable, but you don't lose all of the flavor of Troll fur clothing, or Hydra leather armor.

The number of ways to adjust the mod to how you want to play (for the most part) is also nice, although I could see having so much content getting a little overwhelming at times. And not everything always seemed to fit together smoothly, as opposed to being it's own little addition to the side that can be added on.

One issue I had with some of the options to turn more/less stone, wood, etc on or off is that not everything would really be set up to work with the mod after it was turned back on. From what I remember it was mostly turning more stone ore types back on, which would enable them, but clash with the mods added metal processing/smelting additions the mod makes. Not so much an issue with what the mod changes or adds, as much as not bringing the optional vanilla features that are off by default into line with the mod, so they will work like everything else if turned back on.

The caste system is nice to have as an option, but the military castes seemed a little powerful. And maybe even a tad redundant when it came to Melee options, with me never really using the Guard or Wrestler caste. Having enemies come half naked probably didn't help make combat all that challenging, although I understand wanting to keep the number of items down.

I didn't use the magic system all that much with the constant combat reports being rather distracting, or the magic abilities tending to cause more harm than good (Not always bad). Nor the religion stuff all that much, but not for any real reason.

Having the difference races as playable is cool though. I had a good bit of fun experimenting with the Gnomes over a few forts, especially having a few get diced by their own machinery or injure themselves while using the speed enhancing rocket boots to haul things a little to fast. And the other races seemed to have their own interesting ideas to play around with.

Overall the mod is a cool compilation of different additions and changes. It just seems to need a little smoothing out. Where it needs this, or how to do that, I have no idea.

[Meph]

What I gathered so far: If I make a dwarf civ that is a copy of vanilla df, and have ptional additions that are disabled by default, the people that dislike the sprawling toybox of features that is dwarf mode atm, will like it.

And I had to cuckle a bit, when I saw one post saying that dfhack is the biggest negative point, followed by another user who quotes dfhack use as one of the best features.

[ibluminatus]

Well Masterwork and the Lazy Newb pack were the reason I was able to get into Dwarf Fortress. I very much enjoy the mod. I'm still mastering the Dwarves and honestly  the other races are like a new frontier. I don't see them as just re-skinned Dwarves but rather as their own individuals and I believe that was the purpose of them being made. Kind of like Starcraft; same game, it just changes with the race you use. The mod enhances my experience, I'm not forced to use the majority of the content, and it brings several new things to the game I enjoy. So I'd say its a successful mod. It isn't necessary for gameplay and I don't have to play it if I don't want it to be apart of my Dwarf Fortress Experience.

My interest in Dwarf Fortress started with googling the best free strategy/sim games and dwarf fortress popped up. I then saw articles complaining about the graphics(still praising the gameplay) and others mentioning graphics mods that make the game more accessible to newcomers. I made my way here and tried out Lazy Newb Pack. It was inevitable.