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Author Topic: Combat mechanics (pulping) and material/creature properties [0.40.xx]  (Read 20162 times)

scamtank

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Re: Combat mechanics (pulping) and material/creature properties [0.40.xx]
« Reply #15 on: November 30, 2014, 05:49:41 am »

Yeah, I believe that went in with the first v0.40 release. I think it was specifically for the sake of compatibility when you're tossing a heavily script-utilizing community save between a bunch of dumblets.
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expwnent

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Re: Combat mechanics (pulping) and material/creature properties [0.40.xx]
« Reply #16 on: November 30, 2014, 09:51:11 am »

WHAT

I'm not sure where to document it so it's either poorly documented or not documented at all. My apologies. I'd appreciate any recommendations of where it should go.
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mnjiman

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Re: Combat mechanics (pulping) and material/creature properties [0.40.xx]
« Reply #17 on: November 30, 2014, 11:40:39 am »

This information needs to be put into the Wiki. There is no Pulping section atm.
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I was thinking more along the lines of this legendary champion, all clad in dented and dinged up steel plate, his blood-drenched axe slung over his back, a notch in the handle for every enemy that saw the swing of that blade as the last sight they ever saw, a battered shield strapped over his arm... and a fluffy, pink stuffed hippo hidden discretely in his breastplate.

Sergarr

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Re: Combat mechanics (pulping) and material/creature properties [0.40.xx]
« Reply #18 on: November 30, 2014, 11:43:15 am »

The information from the previous thread also needs to be put into the Wiki. The combat section there hasn't been overhauled since DF2010.
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Urist Da Vinci

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Re: Combat mechanics (pulping) and material/creature properties [0.40.xx]
« Reply #19 on: November 30, 2014, 01:20:43 pm »

The information from the previous thread also needs to be put into the Wiki. The combat section there hasn't been overhauled since DF2010.

I agree. The wiki has numerous overlapping articles for weapons, armor, combat, etc.
Out of all the articles, we are concerned with the 0.34 and 0.40 sets of pages. These need to be checked for misleading info.

It is easier for people to understand and believe simply myths vs complicated (but real) explanations. Too much information (like my threads) is hard to grasp. The wiki pages need a simple correct version that doesn't rely on math, with the detailed calculations pushed to another section/page for modders and the curious.

Sergarr

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Re: Combat mechanics (pulping) and material/creature properties [0.40.xx]
« Reply #20 on: November 30, 2014, 01:41:57 pm »

The high-level overview would help, too.
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expwnent

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Re: Combat mechanics (pulping) and material/creature properties [0.40.xx]
« Reply #21 on: November 30, 2014, 01:47:41 pm »

The information from the previous thread also needs to be put into the Wiki. The combat section there hasn't been overhauled since DF2010.

I agree. The wiki has numerous overlapping articles for weapons, armor, combat, etc.
Out of all the articles, we are concerned with the 0.34 and 0.40 sets of pages. These need to be checked for misleading info.

It is easier for people to understand and believe simply myths vs complicated (but real) explanations. Too much information (like my threads) is hard to grasp. The wiki pages need a simple correct version that doesn't rely on math, with the detailed calculations pushed to another section/page for modders and the curious.

That sounds like the best of both worlds.
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Putnam

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Re: Combat mechanics (pulping) and material/creature properties [0.40.xx]
« Reply #22 on: November 30, 2014, 04:49:36 pm »

Is there any difference (accuracy rolls, velocity etc.) between someone attacking with their dominant hand and someone attacking with their offhand?

Urist Da Vinci

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Re: Combat mechanics (pulping) and material/creature properties [0.40.xx]
« Reply #23 on: November 30, 2014, 05:59:36 pm »

Is there any difference (accuracy rolls, velocity etc.) between someone attacking with their dominant hand and someone attacking with their offhand?

I don't think so. I recall giving feet [GRASP] and comparing weapons held in the hands to weapons held in the feet. There was no difference in the velocity or momentum. However, kicks are stronger than punches due to the body parts being larger and heavier.

I can't really comment on the accuracy part. From what Toady One has said, I would guess that you only get a penalty when trying to attack with both hands at once. What determines the dominant hand? I suppose I could put a breakpoint on that and see if it comes up.

Putnam

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Re: Combat mechanics (pulping) and material/creature properties [0.40.xx]
« Reply #24 on: November 30, 2014, 06:32:47 pm »

There's a number in the body structure that represents the dominant hand; DFHack calls it "weapon_bp", and the number is equivalent to the key in the parts vector (AFAIK), meaning 0 is upper body (for reference), 8 is right hand, 9 is left hand on ordinary humanoids.

Urist Da Vinci

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Re: Combat mechanics (pulping) and material/creature properties [0.40.xx]
« Reply #25 on: November 30, 2014, 08:48:52 pm »

There's a number in the body structure that represents the dominant hand; DFHack calls it "weapon_bp", and the number is equivalent to the key in the parts vector (AFAIK), meaning 0 is upper body (for reference), 8 is right hand, 9 is left hand on ordinary humanoids.

OK, the only times that number is accessed as far as I can detect are:
1. When picking up an item.
2. When choosing which of the two weapons you are holding is displayed next to "W: " at the bottom of the adventure mode UI.

The game doesn't check it at all during the combat code.

Sergarr

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Re: Combat mechanics (pulping) and material/creature properties [0.40.xx]
« Reply #26 on: December 08, 2014, 04:41:43 pm »

I'm sorry for a little bit of necro, but it seems that low-contact weapons with high momentum seem to pulp bodyparts much faster than it would be expected if they only damaged the tissue beneath them. A modded warhammer with contact 10 and momentum 13478 took only 7 hits to "explode into gore" the left front leg of an elephant with contact 1549 and blunt momentum resist 11025.

How's that possible?
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Urist Da Vinci

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Re: Combat mechanics (pulping) and material/creature properties [0.40.xx]
« Reply #27 on: December 09, 2014, 12:11:57 am »

I'm sorry for a little bit of necro, but it seems that low-contact weapons with high momentum seem to pulp bodyparts much faster than it would be expected if they only damaged the tissue beneath them. A modded warhammer with contact 10 and momentum 13478 took only 7 hits to "explode into gore" the left front leg of an elephant with contact 1549 and blunt momentum resist 11025.

How's that possible?

I fully expect people to necro this thread, so no need to apologize (I locked the previous 0.34.11 thread because I didn't want that one being necroed). The time between posts for topics like this can be large.

Here is an excerpt from the combat script results for a random elephant:
Code: [Select]
[DFHack]# combat
Creature size (base/current/racial):    490000  502606  500000
Creature strength (base/current):       1000    1000
Wrestle/Charge rating:  5036

...

BODY PART DEFENSE
Volume/Contact/Thickness/Material/Blunt_Momentum_Resist/Shear_Yield/Frac

...

left front leg
        SKIN    1083    1582    14      skin    21      20000   20000
        FAT     11348   1582    152     fat     226     10000   10000
        MUSCLE  28434   1582    381     muscle  568     20000   20000
        BONE    28434   1582    381     bone    11373   115000  130000

When describing armors I have the script give the blunt resistance for full contact and for contact 10. To limit the number of columns displayed for tissue layers, I just output the full contact resistance. The above example has the leg contact 1582, therefore the contact 10 resistances are 1/1/3/71 (this is partly why whips were/are easily chipping bones in DF).

EDIT: Oh, that wasn't the question.

I ran a different lua script to track the accumulated damage on a (different) elephant's leg bone when hitting it with a modded hammer similar to yours:
Code: [Select]
hit# area dam% dent%
1 10 1 1
2 26 2 2
3 66 5 5
4 178 15 15
5 346 35 35
6 747 78 78
7 1698 178 178

Combat log:
Quote
You bash Elephant 1 in the left front leg from behind with your steel war hammer, chipping the bone!
The Elephant 1 gives in to pain.
The Elephant 1 falls over.
You bash Elephant 1 in the left front leg from behind with your steel war hammer, chipping the bone!
You bash Elephant 1 in the left front leg from behind with your steel war hammer, chipping the bone!
You bash Elephant 1 in the left front leg from behind with your steel war hammer, chipping the bone!
You bash Elephant 1 in the left front leg from behind with your steel war hammer, chipping the bone!
You bash Elephant 1 in the left front leg from behind with your steel war hammer, fracturing the bone!
You bash Elephant 1 in the left front leg from behind with your steel war hammer and the injured part explodes into gore!

It appears that hitting an old wound repeatedly will exponentially increase the wound's area. In your case the leg pulped after becoming 100% bruised through the soft tissue, and 100% broken in the bone. Thanks for pointing this out!
« Last Edit: December 09, 2014, 12:24:50 am by Urist Da Vinci »
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scamtank

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Re: Combat mechanics (pulping) and material/creature properties [0.40.xx]
« Reply #28 on: December 09, 2014, 01:06:02 am »

Does the wound still "stack" if you hit something/somewhere else in the meantime? That has felt a little inconsistent at times.
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Urist Da Vinci

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Re: Combat mechanics (pulping) and material/creature properties [0.40.xx]
« Reply #29 on: December 09, 2014, 01:47:59 am »

Does the wound still "stack" if you hit something/somewhere else in the meantime? That has felt a little inconsistent at times.

Yes, it appears to resume stacking if you hit elsewhere, if your time scale is "in the heat of battle".

However if you wait a long time (i.e. walk off and come back a few minutes later), the wounds start to heal. This:
Code: [Select]
area dam% dent%
747 78 78
if left alone, eventually (and suddenly) turns into this:
Code: [Select]
area dam% dent%
0 77 0
I.e. the wound area and denting* reset to zero and the tissue integrity starts to heal at a tissue-dependant healing rate.

Denting really only matters when you have a creature that has a low YIELD property (such as IMPACT_YIELD) but a very high FRACTURE property. In the past this didn't matter at all, but now if you dent a malleable metal monster part to 250% it will be pulped.
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