Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Random_Dragon]

I've been doing a little arena-mode testing on weapons to use against undead enemies, animated corpses in particular. At present the most efficient option seems to be a blunt weapon, but which is just at flattening the undead?

To try and find out, I conjured up bronze colossi to control, each time spawning one with a given blunt weapon. For good measure I made each colossus a grand-master at fighting and their relevant weapon skill, though lacking the CAN_LEARN token likely makes this pointless.

Each time the opponent was a single zombified human, without armor or weapons. I simply aimed for the head, and counted each successful blow and the effects.

At present I'm starting with a comparison test relevant to Fortress Mode, silver mace versus silver war hammer. A full 10 rounds per scenario, and...

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Silver mace:
Best: 2 hits. Worst: 6 hits.
Mean (average): 2.9 hits. Median: 2 hits. Mode: 2 hits.

Round 1:
1. Bruised the muscle, fractured the skull.
2. Crushed the head.

Round 2:
1. Bruised the muscle, jammed the skull through the brain, tore the brain. The weapon

lodged in the wound.
2. Crushed the head.

Round 3:
1. Bruised the muscle, fractured the skull.
2. Bruised the muscle.
3. Bruised the muscle.
4. Crushed the head.

Round 4:
1. Bruised the muscle, jammed the skull through the brain, tore the brain.
2. Crushed the head.

Round 5:
1. Bruised the muscle, fractured the skull.
2. Crushed the head.

Round 6:
1. Bruised the muscle, jammed the skull through the brain, tore the brain. The weapon

lodged in the wound.
2. Crushed the head.

Round 7:
1. Bruised the muscle.
2. Bruised the muscle, fractured the skull.
3. Bruised the muscle.
4. Crushed the head.

Round 8:
1. Bruised the muscle, fractured the skull.
2. Bruised the fat.
3. Crushed the head.

Round 9:
1. Bruised the muscle, fractured the skull.
2. Bruised the muscle.
3. Bruised the muscle.
4. Bruised the muscle.
5. Bruised the muscle.
6. Crushed the head.

Round 10:
1. Bruised the muscle, fractured the skull.
2. Crushed the head.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Silver War Hammer:
Best: 3 hits. Worst: 7 hits.
Mean (average): 4.6 hits. Median: 4. Mode: 3.

Round 1:
1. Bruised the muscle.
2. Bruised the muscle, fractured the skull.
3. Bruised the muscle, fractured the skull.
4. Crushed the head.

Round 2:
1. Bruised the muscle, chipped the skull.
2. Bruised the muscle.
3. Bruised the muscle.
4. Bruised the muscle, fractured the skull.
5. Crushed the head.

Round 3:
1. Bruised the muscle.
2. Bruised the muscle.
3. Bruised the muscle.
4. Bruised the muscle.
5. Bruised the muscle, fractured the skull.
6: Bruised the muscle, fractured the skull.
7. Crushed the head.

Round 4:
1. Bruised the muscle, jammed the skull through the brain, tore the brain. The weapon

lodged in the wound.
2. Bruised the muscle, jammed the skull through the brain, tore the brain. The weapon

lodged in the wound.
3. Crushed the head.

Round 5:
1. Bruised the muscle, fractured the skull.
2. Bruised the muscle, fractured the skull.
3. Crushed the head.

Round 6:
1. Bruising the muscle, chipping the skull.
2. Bruised the muscle, fractured the skull.
3. Crushed the head.

Round 7:
1. Bruised the skin.
2. Bruised the skin.
3. Bruised the muscle, fractured the skull.
4. Bruised the skin.
5. Bruised the muscle, fractured the skull.
6. Bruised the skin.
7. Crushed the head.

Round 8:
1. Bruised the muscle.
2. Bruised the muscle, fractured the skull.
3. Bruised the muscle, fractured the skull.
4. Crushed the head.

Round 9:
1. Bruised the muscle, chipped the skull.
2. Bruised the muscle, fractured the skull.
3. Crushed the head.

Round 10:
1. Bruised the muscle, chipped the skull.
2. Bruised the muscle.
3. Bruised the muscle, fractured the skull.
4. Bruised the muscle.
5. Bruised the muscle.
6. Bruised the muscle.
7. Crushed the head.

The current conclusion I'm drawing here is that, while combat is highly random, maces seem overall most likely to deliver a head-flattening blow in the fewest hits. Even with several tons of animated bronze badass behind them, neither weapon could score a one hit kill. Whether repeated injury has a cumulative effect on the odds of a gibbing effect, I'm unsure.

Comparisons of flails, mauls, and whips I'll save for another time.

[Bromuzl]

Spoiler: Data (click to show/hide)

New mechanics: Pulping

Pulping appears to work by evaluating the layers in a body part. If each layer meets any one of the following criteria then the body part is pulped:
a) 100% bruised/burned/frostbite/melt/necrosis/blister/boil/freeze/condense (i.e. 10000+ in layer_effect_fraction)
b) 250% dented (i.e. 25000+ in layer_dent_fraction)
c) 100% cut (i.e. 10000+ in layer_cut_fraction) (cut in this case is synonymous with fracture)

Spines, skulls, and perhaps other body parts have the [PREVENTS_PARENT_COLLAPSE] token which prevents the parent body part (such as the head, upper body, or lower body) from being pulped until the sub-part is broken. It appears that only external body parts can be pulped, not internal organs. You will find that boneless body parts that don't contain a spine/skull part will pulp VERY easily (i.e. eyes/ears).

There does not appear to be any distinctions between the combat text descriptions of the pulping, beyond the messages being appropriate to the weapon used (edged, blunt, or creature body part).

Looks good! Perhaps this and the weapon data associated with it can help.

[pisskop]

Small thing.  I havent used arena mode in the new version, but prior modes only added the tags to the creatures.  It doesn't simulate decay by default.

So you literally tested this out on uninjured, undecayed zombies.  But otherwise I see no real issue.

[Random_Dragon]

Spoiler: Data (click to show/hide)

New mechanics: Pulping

Pulping appears to work by evaluating the layers in a body part. If each layer meets any one of the following criteria then the body part is pulped:
a) 100% bruised/burned/frostbite/melt/necrosis/blister/boil/freeze/condense (i.e. 10000+ in layer_effect_fraction)
b) 250% dented (i.e. 25000+ in layer_dent_fraction)
c) 100% cut (i.e. 10000+ in layer_cut_fraction) (cut in this case is synonymous with fracture)

Spines, skulls, and perhaps other body parts have the [PREVENTS_PARENT_COLLAPSE] token which prevents the parent body part (such as the head, upper body, or lower body) from being pulped until the sub-part is broken. It appears that only external body parts can be pulped, not internal organs. You will find that boneless body parts that don't contain a spine/skull part will pulp VERY easily (i.e. eyes/ears).

There does not appear to be any distinctions between the combat text descriptions of the pulping, beyond the messages being appropriate to the weapon used (edged, blunt, or creature body part).

Looks good! Perhaps this and the weapon data associated with it can help.

Ahah, this does at least validate the idea that damage effects are in some way cumulative. As for what it implies I'm guessing that maces, having twice the contact area and size as war hammers, meet that raw damage criteria faster. What that means against a helmeted enemy, and what it means if I re-tested this with a focus on body blows, I'm unsure.

Small thing.  I havent used arena mode in the new version, but prior modes only added the tags to the creatures.  It doesn't simulate decay by default.

So you literally tested this out on uninjured, undecayed zombies.  But otherwise I see no real issue.

The zombies coming out in arena mode were all half-rotted, actually. Selecting one to control also has the "mortal wound" indicator on. Seems that issue at least seems fixed.

[Random_Dragon]

Figured I'd start up another round of testing using a silver whip this time. Based on the !!SCIENCE!! provided to me earlier, I'm going to guess that a whip's small size and tiny contact area will negatively affect its performance, but I'm unsure if the stupidly high velocity multiplier will counteract that.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Silver Whip:
Best: 5 hits. Worst: 13 hits.
Mean (average): 8.5 hits. Median: 7.5 hits. Mode: Bimodal, 5 and 7 hits.

Round 1:
1. Bruised the muscle.
2. Bruised the muscle, chipped the skull.
3. Bruised the muscle, chipped the skull.
4. Bruised the muscle.
5. Bruised the muscle.
6. Bruised the muscle, chipped the skull.
7. Bruised the muscle, fractured the skull.
8. Bruised the muscle.
9. Crushed the head.

Round 2:
1. Bruised the muscle, chipped the skull.
2. Bruised the muscle, jammed the skull through the brain, tore the brain.
3. Bruised the muscle, jammed the skull through the brain, tore the brain.
4. Bruised the muscle, fractured the skull.
5. Crushed the head.

Round 3:
1. Bruised the muscle, chipped the skull.
2. Bruised the muscle.
3. Bruised the muscle.
4. Bruised the muscle.
5. Bruised the muscle, chipped the skull.
6. Bruised the muscle.
7. Bruised the muscle, chipped the skull.
8. Bruised the muscle.
9. Bruised the muscle.
10. Bruised the muscle.
11. Bruised the muscle, fractured the skull.
12. Crushed the head.

Round 4:
1. Bruised the muscle, chipped the skull.
2. Bruised the muscle, chipped the skull.
3. Bruised the muscle, chipped the skull.
4. Bruised the muscle, fractured the skull.
5. Crushed the head.

Round 5:
1. Bruised the muscle, chipped the skull.
2. Bruised the muscle, chipped the skull.
3. Bruised the muscle.
4. Bruised the muscle, chipped the skull.
5. Bruised the muscle, chipped the skull.
6. Bruised the muscle, chipped the skull.
7. Crushed the head.

Round 6:
1. Bruised the muscle, chipped the skull.
2. Bruised the muscle.
3. Bruised the muscle, chipped the skull.
4. Bruised the muscle.
5. Bruised the muscle.
6. Bruised the muscle, chipped the skull.
7. Bruised the muscle, chipped the skull.
8. Bruised the muscle, chipped the skull.
9. Bruised the muscle, fractured the skull.
10. Crushed the head.

Round 7:
1. Bruised the muscle.
2. Bruised the muscle, chipped the skull.
3. Bruised the muscle, chipped the skull.
4. Bruised the muscle, chipped the skull.
5. Bruised the muscle.
6. Bruised the muscle, fractured the skull.
7. Bruised the muscle.
8. Bruised the muscle, fractured the skull.
9. Bruised the muscle.
10. Bruised the muscle.
11. Crushed the head.

Round 8:
1. Bruised the muscle.
2. Bruised the muscle.
3. Bruised the muscle, chipped the skull.
4. Bruised the muscle.
5. Bruised the muscle.
6. Bruised the muscle.
7. Bruised the muscle.
8. Bruised the muscle, chipped the skull.
9. Bruised the muscle.
10. Bruised the muscle, chipped the skull.
11. Bruised the muscle, fractured the skull.
12. Bruised the muscle, fractured the skull.
13. Crushed the head.

Round 9:
1. Bruised the muscle, chipped the skull.
2. Bruised the muscle, chipped the skull.
3. Bruised the muscle, jammed the skull through the brain, tore the brain.
4. Bruised the muscle, jammed the skull through the brain, tore the brain.
5. Bruised the muscle, jammed the skull through the brain, tore the brain.
6. Crushed the head.

Round 10:
1. Bruised the muscle, jammed the skull through the brain, tore the brain.
2. Bruised the muscle, jammed the skull through the brain, tore the brain.
3. Bruised the muscle, jammed the skull through the brain, tore the brain.
4. Bruised the muscle, jammed the skull through the brain, tore the brain.
5. Bruised the fat.
6. Bruised the muscle, fractured the skull.
7. Crushed the head.

Same setup as last 2 tests.

The whip, a weapon of terror. A weapon that can quickly and efficiently brain dwarf and demon alike. A weapon that...doesn't fare too well against a mundane zombie. Also had one oddball instance of enough "chipping" effects eventually leading to the head getting crushed, whereas every other result so far has had at least one fracture happen beforehand.

And given how the last couple rounds had multiple instances of compound skull fractures to no effect, this suggests that the stated severity of a bone-damaging effect is relative to the weapon, not the target or the total percentage of damage inflicted.

[Nahno]

According to Urist da Vinci's quoted data above, cutting should work too. Try picks and axes.

[Melting Sky]

According to Urist da Vinci's quoted data above, cutting should work too. Try picks and axes.

I haven't done any extensive testing in this current version but against undead that do not have the threat of being reanimated I found the heavy bladed weapons to be more effective than blunt ones. Battle axes and the ever devastating pick should make comparatively quick work of zombies.

[Random_Dragon]

According to Urist da Vinci's quoted data above, cutting should work too. Try picks and axes.

One small problem is that severing the head doesn't always seem to work. Not sure why, but it seems to have about a 50/50 shot at killing the bloody thing.

As for piercing weapons, I've had bad luck with morningstars, but others might be worth trying.

For now I might want to sort out the blunt weapon comparisons first, since those don't have any issues with leaving body parts for evil effects or necromancers to re-animate, and won't leave any headless zombies shambling after you. owo

[Random_Dragon]

So, it's that time again. Figured I'd go ahead and run the 2 remaining blunt weapons through the gauntlet. Once again, 10 rounds of bronze colossus, grandmaster in fighter and the relevant weapon skill (just in case), versus an unarmored human zombie.

Edit:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Silver Flail:
Best: 1 hit. Worst: 3 hits.
Mean (average): 1.3 hits. Median: 1 hit. Mode: 1 hit.

Round 1:
1. Crushed the head. The weapon lodged in the wound.

Round 2:
1. Crushed the head. The weapon lodged in the wound.

Round 3:
1. Crushed the head. The weapon lodged in the wound.

Round 4:
1. Crushed the head.

Round 5:
1. Crushed the head.

Round 6:
1. Crushed the head.

Round 7:
1. Bruised the muscle.
2. Crushed the head.

Round 8:
1. Bruised the muscle.
2. Bruised the muscle.
3. Crushed the head.

Round 9:
1. Crushed the head.

Round 10:
1. Crushed the head.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Silver Maul:
Best: 1 Hit. Worst: 6 hits.
Mean (average): 1.5 hits. Median: 1 hit. Mode: 1 hit.

Round 1:
1. Bruised the muscle.
2. Bruised the muscle. Knocked the enemy back.
3. Bruised the muscle. Knocked the enemy back.
4. Bruised the muscle. Knocked the enemy back.
5. Bruised the muscle.
6. Crushed the head.

Round 2:
1. Bruised the muscle.
2. Crushed the head.

Round 3:
1. Crushed the head.

Round 4:
1. Crushed the head.

Round 5:
1. Crushed the head.

Round 6:
1. Crushed the head. Knocked the enemy back.

Round 7:
1. Crushed the head.

Round 8:
1. Crushed the head.

Round 9:
1. Crushed the head.

Round 10:
1. Crushed the head.

Well, these were some oddball results. Both weapons did rather well, and so far were the only weapons to display instant kills. The maul also put out the only occurrences of knockback. The maul's weird first round suggests it might have an unpredictable effect, but with enough chances of instant face-flattening to outweigh the risk.