Bay 12 Games Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  
Pages: 1 ... 13 14 [15] 16

Author Topic: Melee Combat  (Read 29566 times)

Parsely

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
    • My games!
Re: Melee Combat
« Reply #210 on: October 27, 2014, 02:51:43 pm »

Yeah, I don't think anyone has any illusions about trying to block any kind of medium+ sized sword blow with their hands.
Logged

MaximumZero

  • Bay Watcher
  • Stare into the abyss.
    • View Profile
Re: Melee Combat
« Reply #211 on: October 27, 2014, 04:05:20 pm »

I really hope they don't. That's a really bad idea. Better to just dodge.
Logged
  
Holy crap, why did I not start watching One Punch Man earlier? This is the best thing.
probably figured an autobiography wouldn't be interesting

Cryxis, Prince of Doom

  • Bay Watcher
  • Achievment *Fail freshman year uni*
    • View Profile
Re: Melee Combat
« Reply #212 on: October 27, 2014, 04:06:24 pm »

Or use a hoplon

Heck those things can deflec blows like crazy
Logged
Fueled by caffeine, nicotine, and a surprisingly low will to live.
Cryxis makes the best typos.

DJ

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Melee Combat
« Reply #213 on: October 27, 2014, 04:38:47 pm »

What if you had like a big lobster claw thingy to wear on your hand, where you could just open and close it to catch a blade?
Logged
Urist, President has immigrated to your fortress!
Urist, President mandates the Dwarven Bill of Rights.

Cue magma.
Ah, the Magma Carta...

Cryxis, Prince of Doom

  • Bay Watcher
  • Achievment *Fail freshman year uni*
    • View Profile
Re: Melee Combat
« Reply #214 on: October 27, 2014, 04:41:45 pm »

What if you had like a big lobster claw thingy to wear on your hand, where you could just open and close it to catch a blade?

Then your enemies would start using hammers
Logged
Fueled by caffeine, nicotine, and a surprisingly low will to live.
Cryxis makes the best typos.

Hawkfrost

  • Bay Watcher
  • It's way too late to stop.
    • View Profile
Re: Melee Combat
« Reply #215 on: October 28, 2014, 07:05:40 pm »

Yeah, I don't think anyone has any illusions about trying to block any kind of medium+ sized sword blow with their hands.

Well I was specifically thinking of rapiers, smallswords and other such weapons at the time. I can easily imagine a larger weapon would just cleave your hand apart.
For elaboration, I was imagining a specially designed plated gauntlet with a lack of finger mobility but still retaining the ability to catch and hold something.

You are all right in saying it probably wouldn't work regardless.
Logged

Cryxis, Prince of Doom

  • Bay Watcher
  • Achievment *Fail freshman year uni*
    • View Profile
Re: Melee Combat
« Reply #216 on: October 28, 2014, 07:39:38 pm »

Yeah, I don't think anyone has any illusions about trying to block any kind of medium+ sized sword blow with their hands.

Well I was specifically thinking of rapiers, smallswords and other such weapons at the time. I can easily imagine a larger weapon would just cleave your hand apart.
For elaboration, I was imagining a specially designed plated gauntlet with a lack of finger mobility but still retaining the ability to catch and hold something.

You are all right in saying it probably wouldn't work regardless.

It would work on smaller weapons but once you get to the larger ones that rely on their weight to deal the damage then it would probably stop working

Like it would stop a rapier, if you could catch it, but it probably wouldn't do anything to stop a claymore 
Logged
Fueled by caffeine, nicotine, and a surprisingly low will to live.
Cryxis makes the best typos.

Mictlantecuhtli

  • Bay Watcher
  • Grinning God of Death
    • View Profile
Re: Melee Combat
« Reply #217 on: October 28, 2014, 07:44:56 pm »

I'm pretty sure catching-weapon-in-gauntlet-disarm is an entirely fantasy notion. I do know there are certain [smaller] weapons that are designed for catching and disarming, though. I just can't remember the names off the top of my head.
Logged
I am surrounded by flesh and bone, I am a temple of living. Maybe I'll maybe my life away.

Santorum leaves a bad taste in my mouth,
Card-carrying Liberaltarian

LordBucket

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Melee Combat
« Reply #218 on: October 29, 2014, 12:32:33 am »

Zombie apocalypse you don't want them getting close enough for your off-hand to
be accurate because then you're close enough to catch whatever it is from the gore,

I don't think you can depend on keeping a distance in the zombie apocalypse scenario. Some of the fighting is likely to happen indoors.



Honestly instead of a parrying dagger, what is the validity of using a heavy gauntlet
in the off hand to grab the enemy or their weapon instead?

I think there are cases where this would be feasible, bu tI'm having difficult coming up with a scenario with this is preferable to other options. Also...just thining about it...I think I'd personally be more comfortable attempting this with the weapon in my offhand, and my main hand gauntleted. For example, inverted grip sai in left hand overforearm, gauntlet on right, with sai arm high, and gauntleted hand palm open at your left eblow  together to create a wall. You'd be able to quickly shift to block a swing from every forward-ish direction except down...like from an upward sword swing.

I thoink the strategy here though, wouldn't be to "catch" the sword like you're describing. Empty handed techniques against swords typically involve rushing your opponent and catching them on the arms, not the sword. Some few techniques involve parrying to the side, but that pretty much depends on the guy with the sword attacking you in exactly the one way you can parry that way: a downward slash from above. With a gauntleted hand and a sai, I think the way to handle it would be to parry with the sai, and then once the sword is parried, close distance, grab the sword with your gauntleted hand and don't let go. Then whack him with the sai. The benefit to being able to do this is that even at extreme close range, a loose sword in your opponent's hands can still hurt you. He might not be able to get a full swing, but he can still hack at your shins pretty easily. Holding his sword prevents him from doing that. Mostly likely if he's smart he'll drop his sword and grapple, since it's dead weight. But at that point you have the advantage.

Probably other viable scenarios exist, but it's seems like a less than ideal situation.



I'm a bit late, but the trouble with gauntlets is that it's nearly impossible to effectively armour the palm of the hand, and such plates would be too small to appreciably reduce the force of a blow.

The closer you are to the hilt, the lesser the force. Don't grab the tip. Grab immediately on the other side of the guard as your opponent is holding, and concerns about absorbing force and being hurt should all be minimal.



The trouble is that a square hit from a bastard sword will
shear mail like so much plastic, followed by your metacarpals.
 And of course, if it does skate off the mail there's still the chance of major bone damage, as you said.

Again, grab near the hilt, and this isn't a problem.

Quote
The other problem is that the friction coefficient of steel on steel is pretty low, so your opponent may well simply be able to back off slightly and reclaim their weapon with a sharp tug. Twisting might work, if you're strong enough to overcome the fact that in the modal combat you will be holding their sword with your weak hand while they will have it in their dominant hand.

No, because you don't stand there and let them pull away. If your opponent is holding his weapon with only one hand, you'll have a huge leverage advantage over him:


     |
Hilt-bladebladeblade C
   A|B


Their hand is at A. Your hand is at B. It will be easier for you to control where C goes.

Ironically, this is a situation where dual wield is preferable for your opponent. You'd be too close for him to effectively shield bash you, but if he has a short offhanded weapon like a parrying dagger, now's the time for him to slide it between your ribs.


MaximumZero

  • Bay Watcher
  • Stare into the abyss.
    • View Profile
Re: Melee Combat
« Reply #219 on: October 29, 2014, 12:46:47 am »

I don't think you can depend on keeping a distance in the zombie apocalypse scenario. Some of the fighting is likely to happen indoors.
That's where I come in, covered head to toe in armor, wearing surgical scrubs underneath. Punch a rotting face with a steel fist, and you get mostly mush, depending on the type and age of zombie.
Logged
  
Holy crap, why did I not start watching One Punch Man earlier? This is the best thing.
probably figured an autobiography wouldn't be interesting

i2amroy

  • Bay Watcher
  • Cats, ruling the world one dwarf at a time
    • View Profile
Re: Melee Combat
« Reply #220 on: October 29, 2014, 12:39:06 pm »

I'm pretty sure catching-weapon-in-gauntlet-disarm is an entirely fantasy notion. I do know there are certain [smaller] weapons that are designed for catching and disarming, though. I just can't remember the names off the top of my head.
They are usually just specialized forms of the parrying dagger, such as the
Spoiler: sword-breaker (click to show/hide)
(Which, despite its name, was not able to generate anywhere near powerful enough of a force to actually break most blades).
Logged
Quote from: PTTG
It would be brutally difficult and probably won't work. In other words, it's absolutely dwarven!
Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead - A fun zombie survival rougelike that I'm dev-ing for.

SalmonGod

  • Bay Watcher
  • Nyarrr
    • View Profile
Re: Melee Combat
« Reply #221 on: October 29, 2014, 05:02:44 pm »

I don't think you can depend on keeping a distance in the zombie apocalypse scenario. Some of the fighting is likely to happen indoors.
That's where I come in, covered head to toe in armor, wearing surgical scrubs underneath. Punch a rotting face with a steel fist, and you get mostly mush, depending on the type and age of zombie.

I imagine my motorcycle gear would be super handy in a zombie apocalypse scenario.
Logged
In the land of twilight, under the moon
We dance for the idiots
As the end will come so soon
In the land of twilight

Maybe people should love for the sake of loving, and not with all of these optimization conditions.

MaximumZero

  • Bay Watcher
  • Stare into the abyss.
    • View Profile
Re: Melee Combat
« Reply #222 on: October 30, 2014, 07:17:21 am »

I don't think you can depend on keeping a distance in the zombie apocalypse scenario. Some of the fighting is likely to happen indoors.
That's where I come in, covered head to toe in armor, wearing surgical scrubs underneath. Punch a rotting face with a steel fist, and you get mostly mush, depending on the type and age of zombie.

I imagine my motorcycle gear would be super handy in a zombie apocalypse scenario.
That's probably what I'd start with, and my dad is a mechanic with a welder. You can do the math from there.
Logged
  
Holy crap, why did I not start watching One Punch Man earlier? This is the best thing.
probably figured an autobiography wouldn't be interesting

Playergamer

  • Bay Watcher
  • Dance dance hadoken!
    • View Profile
Re: Melee Combat
« Reply #223 on: October 30, 2014, 09:40:29 am »

how good is modern armor at stopping a crossbow bolt or a spear/pike and what about stopping a claymor and lastly how well does modern armor stack up against a mace/flail?

Modern armor is typically not used for melee weapons and you aren't expecting to get attacked by large swords.

and Modern Day Crossbow bolts are actually rather impressive weapons as they are "armor piercing".

Not that we couldn't easily make armor far superior to medieval ones, we just long since outgrown the use for large swords in battle.
This was a while ago, but I'd just like to say: The Romans originally pioneered destroying the idea of offensive weapon versus defensive weapon, so it wouldn't be modern armor versus claymore, it would be claymore versus modern armor and M16 (Assault rifle, not mine.)
Logged
A troll, most likely...But I hate not feeding the animals. Let the games begin.
Ya fuckin' wanker.   

My sigtext

Cryxis, Prince of Doom

  • Bay Watcher
  • Achievment *Fail freshman year uni*
    • View Profile
Re: Melee Combat
« Reply #224 on: October 30, 2014, 09:43:17 am »

how good is modern armor at stopping a crossbow bolt or a spear/pike and what about stopping a claymor and lastly how well does modern armor stack up against a mace/flail?

Modern armor is typically not used for melee weapons and you aren't expecting to get attacked by large swords.

and Modern Day Crossbow bolts are actually rather impressive weapons as they are "armor piercing".

Not that we couldn't easily make armor far superior to medieval ones, we just long since outgrown the use for large swords in battle.
This was a while ago, but I'd just like to say: The Romans originally pioneered destroying the idea of offensive weapon versus defensive weapon, so it wouldn't be modern armor versus claymore, it would be claymore versus modern armor and M16 (Assault rifle, not mine.)
I am still curious on how a kevlar vest would hold up against various melee weapons
Logged
Fueled by caffeine, nicotine, and a surprisingly low will to live.
Cryxis makes the best typos.
Pages: 1 ... 13 14 [15] 16