Thanks Salithus, cause I was too lazy to do this myself
I'll start with a copy of what started in the starter pack thread. I'll clean this up and make a proper embark profile at some point.
My own modification of this [TITLE:Wiki - raw materials to make tools, heaps of coal (minmax build)] out of the extras folder works well (for me anyway):
Discipling and swimming 1 on all.
1. Mining 1-3 & Armorsmith 5
2. Mining 1-3 & Weaponsmith 5
3. Carpenter 1, Woodcutting 1, Diagnose 2, Dress wounds 1, Surgery 1, Set bone 1, Suture 1
4. Plant 5, Brewing 1-2 Armorsmith 1 (in case of strange mood)
5. Plant 5, Cooking 1-2, Armorsmith 1 (in case of strange mood)
6. Masonry 3, Architect 1, Appraiser 1, Judge of intent 1, Persuasion 1, Negotiator 1 or possibly Mechanic and Stonecrafter 1 instead of the last 2 (becomes leader and broker)
7. Metalcraft 5 (mechanic instead if you are really into traps), Smelt 1, Wood burning 1, Blacksmith 1 (or really anything you want here depending on embark conditions and your plans)
I really like your approach! Is the metalcraft 5 for bolt smithing? I'm also thinking about giving dwarfs single medical skills since you do not wish to train them on your wounded dwarfs. Woodcutting is completely useless at the start imho because most of your time will be spent hurling all the blocks. At later stages the hurling time takes even more time. This is probably new to 0.4x versions though since the trees yield a lot of blocks.
What would you cut if you tried to start out with a dedicated hunter/marksdwarf and how would you skill him?
I tend to have problems acquiring the leather needed for military uses (quivers+backpacks). What poultry is best suited to help in this regard btw? From the wiki I think Blue Peafowl but I'm not sure, maybe there is poultry that yields leather when butchered without being fully grown?
Another thing I couldn't really find info about is how profession impacts skill rust and xp gain when dwarfs do different work. Does it have an impact at all? Having read the wiki article about moodable skills it seems that you do not want your weapon/armor smiths to become miners.
Thanks in advance for any tips on those matters!
Metalcraft 5 for general crafting utility (tradegoods), metal bolts are made by weaponsmith. I've found you can make it with anything for trading. My current game I got carried away digging and building and I forgot about the caravan til it showed. Last minute I had my low-skilled carpenter making wooden corkscrews and I still was able to trade for just about everything the caravan had.
Number 7 (the metalsmith) is the dwarf I would cut for the marksdwarf if you want to start out with one (which is a very good idea for more difficult embarks). Markswarf 5 and...ambush is used for hunting. I don't know how fast it trains or how much effect it really has. I've not a lot of experience with hunting. I'd probably go with a level of armor, shield and ambush (and of course swimming & discipline) since it seems to me armor and shield take forever to get the 1st level on an untrained dwarf.
The birds, I wish I knew. I'm having bad luck again in that I seem to have gotten a sterile bunch for embark. It takes a few years to get your leather industry going no matter what it seems. I butcher everything I can and make sure to trade for all the leather and any packs & quivers I can afford the first few caravans.
You are correct that letting the smiths get their mining skill high is counterproductive for strange moods. Depending what my first two migrant waves look like I try to retire them from mining asap, sometimes you get lucky and have high level smiths immigrate (like my current game) so the starters may remain miners their whole lives. I've also been starting that 7th (metalsmith) as a miner as well, so I have 3 to start with. When they aren't crafting I'll have weapon and armorsmith work the furnaces as well. Skill-rust doesn't seem to be that big a deal. Pretty easy to prevent/get rid of if you just remember to have them do said skill at least once or twice a year. Medical of course there's nothing you can do (other than purposely get someone injured). Discipline on civilians will keep rust-free if you make them go by the corpse pile (requires corpses of course) once in a while. Anytime they get horrified they will get xp. Really squeamish ones I have seen get to lvl 4.
Medical I am not sure it pays to spread the skills around. Current game I've gotten a lot of immigrants with 1-2 very high medical skills, but I am starting to strongly suspect that the dr skills don't affect the quality of treatment but only time to perform task (like many other skills). I've got 1 gimp around for a few years who got really badly wounded early on, was cleaned, sutured, dressed, splinted etc. Still walks on a crutch (motor nerve damage and torn arteries in his leg which I guess are not fixable by dwarven medicine) and has trouble breathing & an infection in lungs and upper body (had a lung puncture) I retired him from military duty, let him go back to his original profession of hunter, figured let him die doing what he enjoyed, but he has become an effective hunter even with his injuries (I notice he does clean himself frequently which keeps his infection under control I guess). I'm rambling again, but anyway, treatment history shows everything required was done, original diagnosis by a lvl 6 but subsequents by a lvl 13 so I doubt anything was missed. The few other wounded (who didn't get brutally killed in battle) I had have had 100% recovery from their injuries, even one with a broken back (arrow vs steel mail, guess it was just a chipped bone) and my bone dr isn't very skilled.
Some of my general observations:
For starters, embark profile is largely a matter of personal preference. Poor choices may make things harder at first but generally won't make or break you. Gemclod is a good example
Social skills other than a level of appraisal and judge of intent (on same dwarf for broker) are not worth starting with. Reasoning: these have tangible benefits of making trading easier from the start. While recordkeeping is important as well (critical really if you want a clue what is going on) it will train on the job instantly. The manager will also learn organizing soon enough (and military dwarves learn it as well) The others will train from socializing on their own and also don't provide much benefit. The only real reason I could see for consoler, pacifier and the like is if you really care that a particular dwarf is expedition leader (generally the broker will wind up being leader as well otherwise).
Discipline can be very handy or nearly useless depending on the embark and your playstyle. Active military training will train this up fast even from 0. Civilians only seem to gain experience in it if they started with some, they will then gain skill from horrifying experiences.
I've been doing the point of swimming lately, but it honestly isn't getting used generally. I try to keep my idiots away from water.
A military dwarf to start with (probably marksdwarf) I'm starting to think more and more is a good idea (I haven't to this point) while it's easy enough to make a single entrance and seal yourself in with a bridge, it's highly annoying to be stuck inside under siege for an entire season (or two).
Armor and weaponsmithing are top picks because the quality of armor and weapons does have a noticeable effect (especially if you can't make steel).
Farming is another top pick because it is somewhat slow to raise, and two good farmers can supply even a large fort.
Masonry, carpentry, brewing, cooking and mining are important because you will be doing a lot of them. The skills will raise quickly on their own, but points invested early on let you do more faster. Having a wood-cutter is important (unless there are no trees) but skill in it isn't. Brewing doesn't affect quality but cooking does. Exporting high-quality lavish meals is also a viable trade strategy.
I'm not big enough into weapons traps that mechanism quality is very important to me. Otherwise a skilled mechanic would probably be up there on my list, it trains fast enough though, rock is abundant, mechanisms make decent trade goods. It's a viable choice.
Dying, weaving, clothesmaking, leatherworking all affect quality and anything high-quality trades well but I don't consider them viable choices at the start since they are slower industries to get going.
Glass or pottery can be good. If the map has sand or fireclay. How soon you can get magma furnaces setup is also a factor to me. They provide alternatives to masonry and carpentry so can be useful. Stone, wood, bone crafting, gemcutting just aren't worth starting with. They need to be done once in a while (nest boxes) and are fine activities later, but they don't bring enough utility starting out. If you've got plenty of wood then a carpenter can crank out wooden trap components for 1st caravan and then go back to making barrels.
I still don't have a concrete set of items. A lot depends on embark location and skills chosen. An anvil is pretty much a must (preferably iron). One annoyance is that there is no way to specify alternate items if the chosen ones are unavailable. For instance it's a good idea to bring some magma-proof stone, unless you care which color 1 is as good as another but if you've got 10 bauxite in your starter and it isn't available a noob isn't going to know what to do. Same for only a steel anvil being available (which makes no sense but has happened to me).
Min-maxing the different food types for more barrels has been suggested on the wiki, but having tried it I'm not a fan of it; you need to haul all that crap underground ASAP. Min-maxing for bags on the other hand does seem to be a good idea. Since early on it isn't something one tends to have the time or materials for. Sand is a good choice at 1 pt each, even if you don't really plan on glassworking.
Taking quite a bit of leather also seems like a good idea to me since you're not going to have a lot at the start unless you build your embark profile around animal husbandry and hunting.
Some coal is always handy, even on a map that has it. Material for some bronze even for a noob (but bring a copper pick or 3 still as well) has it's uses, especially if the site isn't suitable for steel. A single training axe for woodcutting. A pair of cats to keep you vermin free. Some dogs to train for war (will die instantly to goblin lashers but have saved my ass a few times from wild animals...and are always good at keeping the kobolds away). Egg-layers I'm starting to think aren't worth the hassle at embark, at least not with the intent of raising for meat and leather. Setting down nestboxes and then moving them seems to be bad (don't seem to get fertile eggs after) and you have enough to do starting out to worry about where to dig out a room for them. A few guineahens will supply plenty enough eggs for eating. If you still want to deal with the hassle of raising for slaughter, geese are good, starting with 4 females and a male by year 3 you can be butchering pretty regularly if all goes right. Pigs are slow to get breeding (especially with only a pair) but very low maintenance.
Anyway, that's enough rambling for one night. Those are my opinions and observations after several months of playing quite a lot, and trying many different embarks but I am by no means an expert on this game.
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Topic: [DF2014] Embark Profiles (Read 18544 times)