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Author Topic: Revised v1.7.0 for v0.44.12. All creature descriptions rewritten!  (Read 28468 times)

Taffer

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Re: Revised v1.7.0 for v0.44.12. All creature descriptions rewritten!
« Reply #225 on: August 13, 2018, 08:38:26 pm »

How calculate the crossbow's firing rate and penetration?

Lower shoot_force value, faster crossbow firing rate?
Is it inverse proportion?

Crossbow SHOOT_FORCE in revised is 600.
In vanilla, it is 1000.

I'd thought higher shoot force value, stronger range weapon damage.

The higher the value the more force crossbows shoot with, yes. You're right, my comment in the RAWs is completely wrong.

Quote
Revision crossbows are faster and penetrate better.

I'd already fixed that comment in the work in progress raws on my machine, but the whole weapons, armor, materials, and tissue files have been upended (see the post above yours). I'm in the middle of sorting things out, but there's a lot to sort through and think about.

My comments overall aren't perfect, but a huge chunk of the "lines changed" for the next version are actually rewritten comments. Usually I'm just trying to improve the prose, but there are inaccurate comments here and there as well.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2018, 08:44:18 pm by Taffer »
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TAFFER'S TILESETS: better colours, improved yet faithful graphics.
REVISED: balance, fixes, and convenient features. Every creature has a better description!

draeath

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Re: Revised v1.7.0 for v0.44.12. All creature descriptions rewritten!
« Reply #226 on: August 28, 2018, 09:55:31 pm »

Hey Taffer!

I was checking this mod out. I noticed that it's causing a ton of messages in errorlog.txt - almost all in of the same issue on many creatures and their parts. Hope this is helpful!

Code: [Select]
SQUIRREL_GRAY:FEMALE:third right rear toe, layer 3: Tissue SKIN was not found, using first tissue instead
I saw this on the master branch, HEAD 0cbf45a.

Other errors, with the above SKIN tissue filtered out:

Code: [Select]
*** Error(s) found in the file "raw/objects/creature_small_ocean.txt"
MUSSEL:Unrecognized Material Template: SKIN_WEAK_TEMPLATE
OYSTER:Unrecognized Material Template: SKIN_WEAK_TEMPLATE
*** Error(s) finalizing the creature MUSSEL
undefined local creature material set to default: MUSSEL SKIN
*** Error(s) finalizing the creature OYSTER
undefined local creature material set to default: OYSTER SKIN
*** Error(s) finalizing the entity FOREST
Unrecognized entity weapon token: ITEM_WEAPON_SPEAR_SINGING
Unrecognized entity weapon token: ITEM_WEAPON_CLUB_2H

I ran a few worldgen tests using the basic generator, pocket, very short history, and got this pretty much consistently. Other than your raws, all default files from 44.12 (linux). I do not know if these have any real impact, but it does cause north of 20,000 lines to populate that log file on world gen ;)
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Taffer

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Re: Revised v1.7.0 for v0.44.12. All creature descriptions rewritten!
« Reply #227 on: August 28, 2018, 10:09:05 pm »

Hey Taffer!

I was checking this mod out. I noticed that it's causing a ton of messages in errorlog.txt - almost all in of the same issue on many creatures and their parts. Hope this is helpful!

...

I ran a few worldgen tests using the basic generator, pocket, very short history, and got this pretty much consistently. Other than your raws, all default files from 44.12 (linux). I do not know if these have any real impact, but it does cause north of 20,000 lines to populate that log file on world gen ;)

Thank you kindly for the report, but please use the current stable release (v1.7.0)! The master branch is in a chaotic state, and is never guaranteed to be stable. I've been working quite hard on this and I'm in the middle of several overhauls. You're seeing a half-integrated Sver's combat mod along with the early stages of tiered leather, with no effort being made to harmonize changes and make sure materials exist before I use them. I also started a cautious early integration of a secret project only to undo most of it again (for now) as well. In this case I renamed SKIN_WEAK_TEMPLATE, because my vision for tiered leather is kind of different than Wanderer's, and the label "weak skin" no longer really fits. I also renamed elven weapons ("singing spears" became tridents, and "two-handed clubs" became "greatclubs"). I work on several different computers depending on where I am, and I sometimes avoid commiting certain files until the work is closer to being done. I'd guess here that I've withheld the new tissue and entity file from a commit, so the labels are inconsistent in the master branch. That should explain those errors, but there's probably a different batch of errors now that I've renamed everything. I've changed 33 files, made 115 additions, and 59 deletions since the version you're using (0cbf45a6), and it's only 23 hours old. If you don't want to use v1.7.0 I recommend at least finding a safer commit. Somewhere around 5ab71d51 might work, but I'm just guessing (seriously, I recommend using v1.7.0. It's probably got a ton of bugs that I've fixed since, but there isn't anything game breaking). Thank you again for the report!

I've given up on posting long monologues, but progress is definitely being made. I'll warn that I'm a perfectionist though, so many of these commits are things like comments being changed and small bugs being fixed, not necessarily hundreds of lines of new features.
« Last Edit: August 28, 2018, 10:22:02 pm by Taffer »
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TAFFER'S TILESETS: better colours, improved yet faithful graphics.
REVISED: balance, fixes, and convenient features. Every creature has a better description!

draeath

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Re: Revised v1.7.0 for v0.44.12. All creature descriptions rewritten!
« Reply #228 on: August 28, 2018, 10:31:34 pm »

Indeed, tags/v1.7.0 doesn't emit errors. I do see you've been working on it within the last hour even. Got my wires crossed, now that I've done it I was going to checkout the tag and just, well, forgot to do so :D

Sorry to bug you!

(you should see *my* commit histories at work. they contain items such as "draeath is a big dummy")
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Taffer

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Re: Revised v1.7.0 for v0.44.12. All creature descriptions rewritten!
« Reply #229 on: September 09, 2018, 11:18:45 pm »

Things are progressing; check the git commit history for proof. Sorry to those waiting, especially Sver. Here's the general state of things.

  • The vanilla portions of v1.3.1 of Sver's mod are mostly integrated. I also need to update to a preview version that Sver kindly sent me. Nothing time intensive.
  • I went all over the place on what to do about leather, but what I have now is close to what the next version will feature. Right now, small creatures (under size 10,000 full grown) never yield parchment or leather. Large scaly creatures yield scale armor, with stats identical to Sver's leather. Large chitin creatures (ie, giant variations) yield chitin armor, with stats similar to Sver's leather. It's a bit stiffer and better against cutting attacks, but is less supple. No combat testing of that, just educated guesses. For now, I'm not going to simplify leather. I might tier leather, in the sense that stronger creatures could have stronger leather.
  • I'm considering adding in fur and feather clothing, along with "gut thread" and some other miscellaneous tweaks.
  • Documentation work, including some wiki pages in Gitlab.
  • I probably won't simplify armor. Sver's reported bug has me convinced that it would be problematic, and I'm wary of straying far from Sver's work, as that's been tested and obsessed over already. I have some rambling to do on this topic, but I'll save that for the v2.0 update post.

If you want to preview the next release, this commit is error free, albeit largely untested. I don't recommend people base mods off of it, because I have a frighteningly obsessive habit of mass rewording comments.

I'm still obsessing over descriptions. I'd started a new editing round of the animal people, working alphabetically from top to the bottom. I changed my mind and started yet again, this time working from the bottom up. I've tried to keep my language simple but I got a little academic with some of my adjectives in that last pass: that might need to change, but those animal people descriptions are finally pretty close to polished. I'm not going to let description work delay the release, but if you're planning on incorporating all of Revised into your mod and you're feeling patient it might be worth waiting for a future version when I've indicated I'm happy with the descriptions. I hope my track record so far has given people confidence that I'm not about to disappear.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2018, 10:08:01 pm by Taffer »
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TAFFER'S TILESETS: better colours, improved yet faithful graphics.
REVISED: balance, fixes, and convenient features. Every creature has a better description!

Sver

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Re: Revised v1.7.0 for v0.44.12. All creature descriptions rewritten!
« Reply #230 on: September 10, 2018, 06:19:01 am »

Quote
Revision: weapon attacks have changed too much for sane commentary.
lol :D

The wait ain't no problem - I will probably release a smaller, pre-armor update for my mod anyway, just to try and get some gameplay feedback on the weapon speed rebalance. It seems that the next DF version is still going to take a while, and I feel like it would probably be best to synchronize the big updates with it, as it is hard to say how many of the vanilla raws will get changed yet.
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DF Combat Reworked
The force pulls neck, doing nothing! Also, armor matters, weapons are distict, organs hurt and other stuff.

Taffer

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Re: Revised v1.7.0 for v0.44.12. All creature descriptions rewritten!
« Reply #231 on: October 20, 2018, 02:26:55 pm »

I haven't found as much time to work on this lately as I'd have liked, but there's still progress. The current revision in the repository is mostly what I envision the next release to look like: there should be relatively few bugs (if any), I just need to finish comparing it to vanilla and rewrite my documentation.

I've lost track of the changes since v1.7.0, there's been too many of them. This is why I need to invest a bunch of time into documentation. I also carefully standardized size adjectives for creatures, with the idea being that their adjective gives you a consistent idea of their SIZE number, but when my computer died it took my notes with it and now that work is completely gone to waste since I don't know where the cutoff was anymore. I'm so fed up with creature sizes at this point that I'll probably remove them for most creatures. I don't think anybody needs a description to tell them that insects are tiny and songbirds are small.

Sver's combat mod is integrated into this mod entirely now, except for the new items and with a few small changes. I'm not sure if that will persist. It's not that Sver's work is bad: it's fantastic work. However, modding Revised is usually a relaxed business: few changes require testing and I rarely stray far from vanilla in ways that might yield bugs. Sver's changes are an exception to this, and the armour, materials, and weapons feel like unknown territory: I can't easily change or edit things because it's all intended to fit together and I don't have years of forum posts and bug reports to fall back on. I want combat to be better than vanilla, though. Perhaps I could compromise and keep things like tougher nerves but revert materials, weapons, and armour closer to vanilla again. Or perhaps I'll just stop worrying about this and keep on trucking with what I've got. But it's definitely slowed down development integrating it and then trying to work around it. For example, I found in old forum posts a system that simplified armour layering: you could basically have piece on your chest, one pair of pants, something on your shoes, something for your head, etc, but you couldn't layer things. It sacrifices a bit of realism and balance in exchange for much simpler armour. I started working on a simplified armour and clothing system based off of this before I realized that it clashed badly with Sver's vision and I had no idea how to reconcile things. I also wanted to get rid of armoured pants, but working out what would affect Sver's balance and what wouldn't was too much of a headache so I reverted that too.

On the plus side, I'm taking time off for the first half of November and I'm intending to pour time into Revised: my hope is that with hours of time every day for modding I can finally finish my Revised todo list. Then I can work quietly on my secret DF modding project and work on the descriptions more without feeling guilty about making people wait.
« Last Edit: October 20, 2018, 04:17:39 pm by Taffer »
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TAFFER'S TILESETS: better colours, improved yet faithful graphics.
REVISED: balance, fixes, and convenient features. Every creature has a better description!

Sver

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Re: Revised v1.7.0 for v0.44.12. All creature descriptions rewritten!
« Reply #232 on: October 20, 2018, 04:30:00 pm »

I've said it multiple times, but got to repeat here: my weapons and armor work perfectly fine separately. The mod just combines my vision on both things, however, I would say that weapons are being the primary focus and are still worth a shot as a more balanced alternative to vanilla.

It's up to you to decide, of course. I understand that it can be hard to keep track of another person's work, especially since weapons have so many small details about them. Just want to point out that the armor aspect of it should not be of any concern: thickness has been proven to be pretty much irrelevant for anything but the encumbrance, while coverage and variety of it are simply a matter of taste.
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DF Combat Reworked
The force pulls neck, doing nothing! Also, armor matters, weapons are distict, organs hurt and other stuff.
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