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[taldarus]

Just wanted to see if I could help out Masterwork and DF by adding my two cents to the pile. I noticed there are a LOT of Evil'er races in the mix, and I thought that a new good race would even things out, but something that would appeal to the more Evil minded players out there. Come on, you really want to slaughter some stuff, why bother hiding and building when there is some slaughtering to do!

So my thought was this, a Paladin race. I saw elements in all the good races, and I thought, 'Where are these guys coming from? How do they train up?' It would obviously be a multi-racial thing. Drawing from all those who despise evil. So it wouldn't really be a race I guess. I don't know if anything will happen, but I want to present this idea with a flourish. I am looking just to have some !fun! I love modding text files and I will probably do this at my own pace. (ETA - 10 years:) I would happily welcome others, if there is interest. I have created several races, but never felt there was something to contribute, until now.

I see these guys as so Holy they are almost evil. Perhaps they enslave slaver races for example. Kobold workers to do menial labor, finding the light by serving the light rather than just death. It is a mercy for kobolds, they are weak and easily corrupted. A strong hand to protect them is in their best interest. If they cannot be saved, put them to the holy sword. Inspiration would come from:
-Witchhunters (W40K) - Best Example, I want Angels! Dragons and Demons be Damned!
-White Cloaks (Wheel of Time) - Mostly thematic
-Knights Radiant (Stormlight Archives) - Establishing value
-Archons (Age of Wonders) -
-Scarlet Crusade (Barely- Just in case someone doesn't know the above...WoW)

*Clears Throat*

The first of the Factions!
The Knights of the Holy Meph (I can't resist, please forgive me!)

Featuring
-A Holy order of warriors devoted to protecting the works of the creator.
-An order that only draws from the most devoted Worshippers of Meph (Must...Stop...*face goes red with effort*)
-Holy forges and smiths create divine armors for the battling of evil.
-No traditional industries. Receive gifts from the races you defend, and enchant them with the Holy Writ of ... Meph (NOOOOOoooOOOO)
-Develop a Citadel of Light in a world of darkness and blood
-Purge the taints of evil from lands.

Be prepared to lead the world's greatest warriors in battle. No more will you need hide from sieges, you will venture forth and smite the evil do'ers. Even without weapons and armor, these men are the greatest hero's this world has ever seen! Which is good, because someone forgot to bring those peasant guys, the armor, and the weapons, oh and food, wait no. What's in this sack? Seeds! What do you do with these again? Plant them in the skulls of evil do'ers? Guys we got a problem. Where's the Ale?

Gameplay:
You will start with powerful warriors, but they stubbornly refuse to get their hands dirty. After all, they need to polish their armor. Oh, get us seven sets of adamantine armor to polish, NOW! If you are lucky you will start with a peasant. These guys won't care at all about rooms and chairs and tables. You just need to get them the right kind of equipment before they get angry. You wouldn't like a High Lord of Light when he is angry (The blood on his boot does ruin his dashing good looks)

Classes:

T0 - Working people?

T1 - Initiates
-These are the weakest of the order. Still sworn never to do anything useful, all they do is train. The good news is this, they are pretty tough, and they don't care about their clothing, much. Requires a robe (Initiates grade quality).

T2 - Monks
-These are the most common fighters in the order. Good equipment is rare, and these men prefer the protection of the creator to armor, but they still need good clothes. Amazing wrestlers and dodgers, wield the blessing of purity (Kill undead)

T3 - Priests
-Focusing on the divine rather than the martial, these men still retain their ability to fight with hand and foot. The just need more bling to power their magics. Healers, become very important early game if you are in the 'blight' (evil biomes)

T4 - High Priest (prayer)
-Perform Holy Rituals. Perhaps purifying the corrupt and weak. Need ideas for this: Burn the land (To kill evil plants), resurrect the dead (not evil though; yes you still need a sacrifice, but this is a high priest not a vulgur necromancer, his knowledge is a gift of meph)

T4 - Holy Smith (sorcery)
-Finally, after ages of training they are ready to use the Forges of...Meph...to create armors for their divine champions

T3 - Squire
-Basic soldier, requires armor, but doesn't need to be blessed

T4 - Knight
-Requires finer things. At least one blessed piece (Perhaps he instantly becomes attached? So choose well, if you think he will rise in rank. If it isn't masterwork...)

T5 - Paladin
-Everything must be blessed. Becomes attached to blessed things? At least one masterwork required (But wait...)
-Lay Hands (once every full moon heal. Touch, good for in combat)

T6 - High Lord of Light (Sorcery, Prayer, and Combat skills maxed'ish)
-Masterwork and blessed both required. Doesn't spawn, so you need to raise him up through the ranks. Watch his emotions, but he can slaughter every Forgotten beast you have ever faced, at the same time. A razors edge, ready to tantrum and ready to slaughter. !Fun! (Have you ever heard the old saying, "Don't handcuff yourself to a mad man?")

Again, all buildings will focus on the use and progression of these characters. Workers will be needed, but I like the idea of these guys using slaves...It is a divine mercy...

The value of their gear quickly becomes a problem. Blessed pieces will be INCREDIBLY valuable (Think shardblades - see Knights Radiant). So you will have non-masterwork, blessed gear lying around. You cannot use them (Unless your desperate, if a knight uses it don't let him become a paladin) and you cannot trade them, they are holy relics...Get ready for some epic battles...

Just an idea, no clue as to how some of it will work, and there will be a lot of copying and pasting involved Might focus on the four good races at first...hehehe...A gnome paladin...So awesome...

The biggest challenge in my mind is the gear, as I WANT the gear requirements to be super strict. It will be hilariously !fun! that way. I have a plan how to accomplish most of this, but this is a far bigger project than anything I have ever finished...

Edit 1: The unworthy must never touch the divine. Give a blessed item to the wrong person and anger every T4, 5, and 6 you have in the place. Same goes for thefts, but then its everything above T0....

Edit 2: Totally forgot this part. The faction will focus on purifying the 'blight' of evil biomes. I would love this war with nature (well, evil nature). The faction will be well suited to survive in evil biomes, but will face constant threat. I intend to utilize a system that allows dead evil creatures and purified lands (Off and on map) into writs of protect = supplies from caravans. Also a caravan escort system, as caravan's are your source to the outside world. The mechanics of this faction should feel like an army on campaign. With migrants being recruits, and caravan's the supplies. If you are lucky you may eventually have a 'farm'. That's what those seeds are for?

Mechanics go like this: Kill evil = writs of protection = armor, food, ale, etc from caravans = better soldiers = better conquests = secured caravan routes (more caravans) = MORE BATTLE.

[snowhusky5]

Sounds kind of interesting. Having an alliance faction of dwarves, elves, humans, and gnomes would be pretty cool, even without the other stuff. Each race (caste) would have different benefits and preferences (dwarves are skilled miners/smiths and need booze, elves are fast and good dodgers but relatively weak physically, etc). You could buy race specific techs from a caravan or a specific tech workshop (seismic telegraph again?). Having it focused on combat would be especially cool, and make it a bit more unique so it isn't just a clusterf*** of all 3/4 race's features mixed together. Maybe if they were constantly at war with the evil factions instead of just being default hostile? It's worth some thinking.

[taldarus]

Exactly, just read your post. In an alliance situation. You could even do internal politics more actively. If you have an alliance, do you dare cut down trees? Do the elves start tantrumming? Oh the endless possibilities of !fun!

[teremaster]

This sounds like the best thing ever to happen since masterwork was made. I am SO in on this. I will help in any way possible should you require it. Paladins are literally my favourite thing in the world. What about having a trigger where the gods (and other races) lose faith in the light citadel if they feel the holy champions are falling too regularly?

If only we could get them to use a pistol in one hand and a sword in the other, THAT would be awesome.

*bonus !fun! idea* crusades. like the raiding/expeditions, they require gold, weapons, armour and cloth (for flags), maybe even a giant craftable idol/cross. these would bring great rewards if they succeed.

*bonus bonus !fun!* paladins that have turned to the darkness. Wielding cursed weapons and great power, these foul monsters will arrive to the citadel in groups of 2-6 and seek to corrupt the very centre of light.

[taldarus]

Excellent! Soon you will join our chapter house, as an initiate of course.

Love the bonus ideas. Exactly the feel I am going for. I wonder if we can set it up so there is a chance of losing population in the process. It would burn, but a crusade needs a a great leader...and perhaps that leader can fall...in more ways than one...

Not sure about the gun though....

EDIT: Already see one thing I will leave out. Genders is going to be tricky with this many castes...

EDIT 2: Can castes be inside of castes? Don't have time to check. Was just organizing the files.

creature
 race
  gender
   actual castes castes

Rather than one caste for each races genders caste. A lot of duplication.

[Kartag]

They could be a single-gender race with artificial creation of civ members. The whole thing looks heavily inspired by WH40K Space Marines and Sisters of Battle, so here's my thoughts. I don't know how hard it will be to write these, but still.

40% of population are Servitors - people so dumb faithful that they are willing to do anything to aid the Chapter and please Creator, even the hardest, most dangerous work. They learn all skills except combat, which they learn much slower, at normal rate. Servitors do all menial labors. Weak in combat. Must be recruited from the surrounding lands by preachers (I think of this like a seasonal/yearly chance of warlock-like mephit spawning and/or workshop spawning, which require some gold for travelling expenses, a religious book and public speaking skill, the better the skill - the higher the chance). They can be upgraded to Priests.

30% of population are Priests (Monks?) - holy people who swore to bring Creator's word into the minds of all races. They recruit Servitors and heal the chapter members by ususal means - thread, cloth and soap. They do not do menial labors. They learn medical and social skills at a higher rate. They can be upgraded to Clerics or Templars.

15% of population are Clerics - basically, sorcerers who use divine magic to cleanse the wicked and purge the undead. They learn Sorcery and ranged combat skills at higher rate. They do not learn menial labor skills, but they can use magic to boost and heal nearby chapter members. Celibate.

15% of population are Templars - they are the muscle of the military force, zealous warriors seeking to purge the evil in the world. They know no fear, their faith is so strong that they are never exhausted, and they will never stop pursuing evil since they found it. They learn melee combat skills at much higher rate. Combat skill descriptions ("axe/sword/spear/hammerdwarf/lord") are "Initiate" for regular soldiers and "Templar" for master soldiers. Celibate.

A very, very small percent of population are Living Saints - chapter members who had done something so great in the eyes of the Creator that he granted them a piece of his might (maybe something vampire- or werecurse-like, but with bonuses?). They know no fear, no exhaustion, have no need to eat, drink or sleep. They inspire fellow battle brothers and grant them bonuses in combat. They can use powerful magic and wipe out large sieges single-handedly. Celibate.

Initially, there is a very, very small chance of chapter member corruption, which slowly increases as the time progresses to the max of 50% (in my vision the chance hits maximum after 50 years if non-countered, see below). A corrupted chapter member can do the following things: go berserk and spawn demons to aid him in battle or covertly spawn demons and leave or covertly spread disease and miasma and raise hostile undead, covertly murder his battle brothers, spread lies and heresy which increases corruption chance for others, randomly pull levers (imagine a gate operating lever pulled in siege time), randomly open or lock doors. The corruption chance decreases to an initial value in presense of Living Saint, or decreases in presense of non-appointed nobles, whose death for whatever reason, in turn, greatly increases the corruption chance for all chapter members on the map. Praying at a special workshop has a chance (based on praying chance, a legendary+5 prayer will guarantee the effect) of decreasing corruption chance (sorry for tautology) for all chapter members on the map.

Nobles:
Non-appointed:
Chapter Master - the civ leader. The problem here is megabeast/demon kings.
Force Commander - the general.
Inquisitor/Chief Inquisitor/Lord Inquisitor - baron/count/duke respectively. The higher the rank, the greater the corruption chance increased on death.
Appointed:
Librarian - bookkeeper and manager.
Hoardmaster - broker.
Comissar/Lord Comissar - sheriff/captain of the guard respectively.
Captain - military commander.
Sergeant - squad commander.
Aspiring Champion - champion.

[Meph]

A rather silly, but fundamental question: What sort of creature do you want to use? Currently you describe professions and abilities, but do you want to use humans as a basis? It sounds like it...

[taldarus]

Kartag, I love the concept. I was mostly think witchhunters to get their mindset, not so much a w40k crossover. Although a crossover does bring a huge grin to my face. SPACE MARINES fortress is EPIC. Yes I did that, CAPS LOCK IS FOR AWESOME. I was thinking white cloaks for structure and terminology. The magic side is surprisingly not far from w40k I suppose, but that was not my intention.

Meph: Creature? I am currently building 4 creatures: humans, dwarves, elves, and 'gnomes'. Although a brief examination into the gnomes file left my head'ache'e. I have already forayed into the multispecies race design, although not to this extent. As I asked castes within castes would greatly increase design speed, but I haven't seen anything in the MW or DF files that use such a thing

[CREATURE:PALADIN]  [CASTE:DWARF]   [ALL SUB-CASTES HERE]  [CASTE:ELF]   [SAME AS DWARF]  [CASTE:HUMAN]   [ETC]

versus

[CREATURE:PALADIN] [CASTE:DWARF INITIATE] [CASTE:ELF INITIATE] [CASTE:HUMAN INITIATE]

IF you are referring to animals, there will probably be none. Maybe something eventually, but it is far from the purpose. I want to create something with 4+ races working towards a common goal: Exterminate Evil. They will be a tad bit evil, because they will be brutal in their methods. So far they will be all male I think, with some adjustments to protect the world gen (I don't have any idea for that). There will be no 'main' creature. I think that is the answer. There are three right now.

[Meph]

You cant do multi-race forts, because a Gnome mother and a Human father will give birth to a Dwarf son and a Elf daughter, and all four of them will share the same graphics, because it depends on profession, not caste.

[taldarus]

All male atm in my mind. It's more a comsetic thing. Technically, they are all the same race. Functionally, they will behave differently. I have done this before and am confident of results. I did a six species race at one point. Perfectly functional. No children, no problem. An easy work around however would be a nursery with one child for each 'race' present. Send someone in, run reaction, out pops race appropriate child, yes?

[taldarus]

[CASTE:DWARF INITIATE]
[POP_RATIO:1000000000000000]
v
[CASTE:DWARVEN HIGH LORD OF LIGHT]
[POP_RATIO:1]

High lords are rare alright. So rare you will only see one if you make him. I am thinking 10 megabeasts go into the reaction, +fancy gear requirements. He is game breaking in power though. Avatar of the creator on earth kinda thing. No idea if that ratio will bug out the game, never no till you try though. I would like the occasional semi-evil race member showing up as an initiate the Uruk paladin example.

Just realized I left out start up somehow. Might as well add'em in. I was planning on 2 monks to 5 initiates as the starting ratio. The problem is of course housing. I need something to work for early stages. Late game would involve making blessed stones or timber for your holy citadel. Maybe tents would be the early mechanic. I want these guys to function kinda like kobolds merged with warlocks. No digging at all, dumped into a place to survive or perish. Your currency is death. Civilizations pay you to kill off evil, protecting them. So that is what you do. I am thinking a purifier to burn corpses, that leads to a writ. You then have to wait for caravans to bring you supplies. I think caravans are an interesting mechanic, but I never use them in an unmodified game. So that is part of it. You have to negotiate, barter discuss, etc. Actually plan out what resources you will need from the different kingdoms. Without caravans you will die. Bring in caravans.

Maybe as you grow, you can draw in new races, leading to more initiates arriving every year. This will work best in an evil biome, but there you will need to move fast to protect your soldiers from the weather. However, undead are hated by all living, and translate to a valuable resource. Purifying undead is so profitable, some unsavory Paladins trap necromancers and use them to spawn hordes of undead. A mafia protection money gambit.

Regardless, caravan and migrants are the lifeblood of your fort, although camp is a better word I think. It isn't a place for children, but rather divine soldiers. You will not need workshops to survive, but will use workshops to advance your initiates into stronger members. This is where I feel ideas will help. I have no idea about workshops, but will want something. This wont be about building, initially, but battle and trade.

Thanks for the great questions and comments btw! I will try and keep involved, but this is my last evening of the weekend.

[Meph]

[POP_RATIO:1000000000000000] => This is too high, the game wont accept numbers that large.

Still, my question remains: How do you do childbirth and graphics?

[taldarus]

graphics are not my thing. I am an ascii man myself.

Child birth will be artificial. All members of this 'race' will be male, except for a tiny number. Too small to encounter. This female 'member' will functionaly be invisible during a fort game, providing the migrants, or initiates to fuel your army. She will have a high brithrate: 10-30 kids. They will be messed up from a legacy perspective, but I never touch that so I always forget. It will function like a hive and queen mechanic.

The fort size will probably never go over 100, btw. No children will ever be born inside the fort walls. Does that create problems in super old forts? I have never gone that far into the game. I prefer small little outposts to massive civilizations. The 'mother' will be a concept, if people deem it necessary. She will be the wife of the creator, immortal, unmoving, and gives 'birth' to her children. Philosophically speaking we are all children of the creator, and every initiate is a child of the creator (philosophically). I hadn't given that much thought, just BS'ingplanning a 'reason' for her to exist in game. She should never be part of a fort though. Should work smoothly.

Is there a problem? Could you give me more specific questions? Also what is the highest pop_ratio the game accepts?


Edit: Thats even better than i thought. The mother is a statue, inanimate and lifeless. Functionally she would be like the warlock pylon I believe. However, she will occasionally give birth to initiates. It is a philosophical birth however, as the initiates travel across the world to receive the divine blessing of the mother. It is the origins of their power. BRILLIANT!

[Tirion]

Playng "offensive" in Fort mode is already hard, and there is a distinct possibility the Force Invasion dfhack scripts won't work in 40.xx. But the Paladins with good stats and metals and morale/discipline would make nice challenging late-game invaders for Orc, Warlock and Succubus forts.

[taldarus]

That settles it! Filthy orc scum! You dare speak their names in my presence! You better pray you do not face a High Lord of the Light, less he burn your filthy hovels into ash!

It would be fun, wouldn't it.