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[moghopper]

Sweet

[tompliss]

If people find the pretenders-by-monday too strict

I'd say we wait for E. Albright to tell us whether he'll code something before monday, and if so, we get a few more days ?

[Delta Foxtrot]

He implied in the general thread that he won't have anything meaningful in a long while. At least that's what I gleamed from his post.

edit:
ohwait it's tuesday. Then yeah, I'd like to stick to a pretenders-by-monday. For some reason I was living in weekend land.

[E. Albright]

I'd like to play, yeah.

As to settings, I agree with the call for Level 1 thrones only. I'd say 50% + 1 sounds good for capture conditions (11/20?). I'm not hostile to the higher site settings, though I'd say 50% instead of 55%. Indy mages can completely change a game. Likewise, I'd argue for normal research; if our stated goal is to play the nation, it's better for national troops and mages to stay relevant longer.

WRT nation selection... hrmph. It would be good to have some kind of sanity check on the more ridiculous nations. We should have a conversation about that. I am, however, entertained by the notion of us going in and modding our troop/nation descriptions, though I'd say we want to leave the mage names at least IOT keep the slightly-ridiculous-and-pompous MadLib flavor NG offers in its naming standards. And no, I'm NOT just saying that because I contributed 1/3-1/2 the data for the mage names.  But yes, if nothing else we'd end up with a commemorative mod nation set when we were done with the game. 

tompliss: urm. Gimme until tomorrow to decide if I'm going to be able to (quickly) make the changes I most desperately want to. They'd not be high-visibility ones unless I managed to rework tiered mage generation to better allow for mounted commanders... though OTOH, that'd let me include amazons w/o the compunctions brought on by the pared-down version I gave Elmokki in August.

[E. Albright]

Ennnnh, as much as I'd like to say I'd be able to quickly iron out the problems with mounted commanders enough for a version of NG with Sidhe and Amazons, it's not gonna happen. This will take time, so I'd say we should go ahead now if the only discussed cause for delay was the possibility that I could quickly release a significantly-expanded new version.

How are we doing nation generation/selection?

[Delta Foxtrot]

How are we doing nation generation/selection?

I'm thinking that everyone will generate a nation for themselves and that's that. If that allows for too much shenanigans, we could have some sort of peer review/veto process where everyone will describe their preferred nation-to-be and if it's far too OP (and how would we define that?), we'll force them to pick another nation.

It is worth re-mentioning that I have never played a nationgen game before, so I'm unaware if there's some accepted norm of handling these things.

[E. Albright]

Well, the main issue is that NG can generate some wildly OP nations, so if someone's willing to sit and generate long enough, they can come up with some ridiculous stuff. There's pretty much no way around that except some sort of peer review. I dunno if we need that, per se, but without it there's a real risk we're all going to submit ridiculous monstrosities culled from a couple hundred lesser nations.

[Delta Foxtrot]

I would not be opposed to having some ludicrously powerful nations in the mix, but I guess we could all submit a small verbal description of our potential chosen nations and their perceived strengths. If something seems a tad OP, people can voice out their concerns and we'll work from there.

Also, one note to people using mod inspector to check their nations: it seems some units are shown as having res cost 1 in the inspector while in-game they have a more realistic res cost attached.

[E. Albright]

When using the Mod Inspector to survey newly rolled nations, I strongly recommend doing a side-by-side comparison with the Advanced Description file, as it gives unit race and correct resource costs of your various troops, as well as listing national advantages/disadvantages (e.g., blood sac, cheap/expensive temples/labs/forts, unusual temperature preferences, etc.).

[tompliss]

Yeap, the mod inspector "forgets" some things :
units marked as unknown sized are size 2 (normal size), and it seems that res cost 1 have the usual auto-calc resource cost (the gold one seems correct), so simply expect heavy armor/cavalry to cost resources.

And yeah, you need to read at least the normal description to check the races/temperature, as those aren't included.

[Bluerobin]

With the Dom 3 unitgen/nationgen you could set parameters to make certain types of nations more common so digging through genned nations was easier. Is that possible in this version? I don't think it is, but I'm not sure.

[Karlito]

In the previous Bay 12 nation gen game we generated a large community pool of nations and then drafted them from that. With all of us generating our own, they will be crazy unbalanced and broken, and that's fine by me, this is supposed to be kind of a silly game, but I have little faith that peer review will do much too offset that.

[Bluerobin]

That sounds like a good plan, although I'd probably want the pool to be like 100-200 nations or something fairly high, personally. I like finding a nation that has a playstyle I like combined with a cool factor that I like (as I imagine most people would, I guess).

[Karlito]

Yeap, the mod inspector "forgets" some things :
units marked as unknown sized are size 2 (normal size), and it seems that res cost 1 have the usual auto-calc resource cost (the gold one seems correct), so simply expect heavy armor/cavalry to cost resources.

It seems like the mod inspector is also not listing some capital-only sacreds.

[Delta Foxtrot]

IIRC nationgen bugs out if you try to gen too many nations.

So I guess I'll gen 10 or more sets of 10 nations and then post the files with some descriptions on the side, afterwhich we'll pick the nations in order that has been predetermined by someone at some point?
We could have some non-participating player run something like the random.org sequencer and give us the order in which we pick nations.