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Never!

1 (9.1%)

Update to DF 0.40.15 when Dwarf Therapist is available.

8 (72.7%)

Never mind DF 0.40.15, but maybe update later.

2 (18.2%)

Total Members Voted: 11

[pisskop]

If you like many beasts, maybe something like ...

   [BEAST_END_YEAR:100:85]

?

Worldgen seems to end well before 300 on your settings anyway.

oh it is set to -1.  No checking on mine.  But I try to add more in.

I mean yes, thats okay.

[ptb_ptb]

What about 
[CULL_HISTORICAL_FIGURES:1]
?
From the wiki that would slow down initial world generation, but reduce memory use and make save / load quicker. Could be useful for those of us with less than stellar computers.

Your elevation numbers look OK to me, btw.

-super high erosion, no periodic erosion.

Is that why there isn't much in the way of mountains?

[Prudent Viper]

A bit of a strange request, but can we have:
  [CAVERN_LAYER_COUNT:3]
   [CAVERN_LAYER_OPENNESS_MIN:100
   [CAVERN_LAYER_OPENNESS_MAX:100]
   [CAVERN_LAYER_PASSAGE_DENSITY_MIN:0]
   [CAVERN_LAYER_PASSAGE_DENSITY_MAX:0]

This turns every cavern layer into a huge open space, rather than a million 1x1 tunnels. Not only would this setting be a great deal more attractive for adventurer exploration (Much harder to get lost), it's also a lot easier to manage in Fortress mode.
Also, can we have the end year not be a round number? e.g. 186 or 203. Again, just personal taste. I just find it more immersive that way.

Site Cap set to -1 is just asking for trouble.

[pisskop]

-super high erosion, no periodic erosion.

Is that why there isn't much in the way of mountains?

By all means, do whatever helps people.  I want the evil, and I prefer the narrower, higher mountains.

--

AFA - erosion.

Yes and no.  there are less mountains because I personally prefer weakened dwarves.  While a high erosion will take away a few mountains, the mountain peaks protects them some.  A more effective way to add or subtract mountains it to make them never appear via the weighted elevation frequency.

What erosion will also do is create more lakes and rivers, to note.  But rivers are also governed by 'preferred river' numbers.

Taking

   [ELEVATION_FREQUENCY:3:5:25:65:4:1]

adding more to the last two numbers (higher 'high elevation' weights) will add more mountains.  And for more random mountain-lets, a lower elevation mesh size will create more randomized topographic maps, making the shoreline and mountains more random.

---

I do approve of higher cavern openness, although I dont think Ive ever seen max (100) openness.

[ptb_ptb]

A bit of a strange request, but can we have:
  [CAVERN_LAYER_COUNT:3]
   [CAVERN_LAYER_OPENNESS_MIN:100
   [CAVERN_LAYER_OPENNESS_MAX:100]
   [CAVERN_LAYER_PASSAGE_DENSITY_MIN:0]
   [CAVERN_LAYER_PASSAGE_DENSITY_MAX:0]

I'm no fan of the lots of twisty tiny passages thing, but what would a compromise look like? Say

  [CAVERN_LAYER_COUNT:3]
   [CAVERN_LAYER_OPENNESS_MIN:85
   [CAVERN_LAYER_OPENNESS_MAX:100]
   [CAVERN_LAYER_PASSAGE_DENSITY_MIN:0]
   [CAVERN_LAYER_PASSAGE_DENSITY_MAX:15]

Here's an example of OPENNESS 75 DENSITY 25

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Yes and no.  there are less mountains because I prsonally prefer weakened dwarves.

I've no problem with weakened dwarves as such. It's just that I was thinking it would be nice to have a different dwarf civilization for each 'clan/player'. So I'd like to have a few more than 4 dwarf civilizations if possible. If the majority of players are against me, though I'm easy.

[Prudent Viper]

That looks good to me, ptb.

It's fairly easy to get the correct number of dwarf civs if you want them. From what I understand, when world gen makes civs it places one of each entity in a random order and then does the same again if it still has more entities to create. Therefore, in order to guarantee the correct number of dwarven civilisations you'd have to set total civ number to a least 35.

If that's true, then it seems strange that you're only getting 4-5 dwarf civs with a setting of 45. Especially since reduced mountain number doesn't weaken dwarves as much as it used to, thanks to hillocks.

[ptb_ptb]

Also, can we have the end year not be a round number? e.g. 186 or 203. Again, just personal taste. I just find it more immersive that way.

Fine by me. For the moment, how about:

   [END_YEAR:162]
   [BEAST_END_YEAR:103:85]

If that's true, then it seems strange that you're only getting 4-5 dwarf civs with a setting of 45. Especially since reduced mountain number doesn't weaken dwarves as much as it used to, thanks to hillocks.

*Shrug* Maybe pisskop's worldgen is so evil that most of the dwarf civs are killed off early. I'll experiment some.

[pisskop]

If that's true, then it seems strange that you're only getting 4-5 dwarf civs with a setting of 45. Especially since reduced mountain number doesn't weaken dwarves as much as it used to, thanks to hillocks.

*Shrug* Maybe pisskop's worldgen is so evil that most of the dwarf civs are killed off early. I'll experiment some.

Most likely its the savagery.  But evil consuming whole oceans and mountains wont help.

[ptb_ptb]

New poll!

I tweaked the savagery down a bit and made a couple of other small changes. In three runs I got
6 civilizations
5 civilizations
then
3 civilizations.

The worldgen I'm using now is:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

[WORLD_GEN]
   [TITLE:MEDIUM WORLD WIDE]
   [DIM:257:129]
   [EMBARK_POINTS:1324]
   [END_YEAR:162]
   [BEAST_END_YEAR:103:85]
   [REVEAL_ALL_HISTORY:0]
   [CULL_HISTORICAL_FIGURES:1]
   [ELEVATION:1:400:1151:575]
   [RAINFALL:0:100:650:400]
   [TEMPERATURE:-50:100:501:250]
   [DRAINAGE:0:100:550:250]
   [VOLCANISM:0:100:550:300]
   [SAVAGERY:0:100:450:200]
   [ELEVATION_FREQUENCY:2:5:25:65:12:8]
   [RAIN_FREQUENCY:1:4:5:5:5:4]
   [DRAINAGE_FREQUENCY:1:4:5:5:5:4]
   [TEMPERATURE_FREQUENCY:2:2:4:13:66:15]
   [SAVAGERY_FREQUENCY:2:5:10:15:20:20]
   [VOLCANISM_FREQUENCY:1:2:4:6:6:5]
   [POLE:NORTH_AND_SOUTH]
   [MINERAL_SCARCITY:1800]
   [MEGABEAST_CAP:50]
   [SEMIMEGABEAST_CAP:100]
   [TITAN_NUMBER:40]
   [TITAN_ATTACK_TRIGGER:50:0:50000]
   [DEMON_NUMBER:30]
   [NIGHT_TROLL_NUMBER:30]
   [BOGEYMAN_NUMBER:10]
   [VAMPIRE_NUMBER:25]
   [WEREBEAST_NUMBER:25]
   [SECRET_NUMBER:50]
   [REGIONAL_INTERACTION_NUMBER:50]
   [DISTURBANCE_INTERACTION_NUMBER:50]
   [EVIL_CLOUD_NUMBER:50]
   [EVIL_RAIN_NUMBER:25]
   [GENERATE_DIVINE_MATERIALS:1]
   [GOOD_SQ_COUNTS:251:350:1]
   [EVIL_SQ_COUNTS:503:1150:3]
   [PEAK_NUMBER_MIN:15]
   [PARTIAL_OCEAN_EDGE_MIN:0]
   [COMPLETE_OCEAN_EDGE_MIN:4]
   [VOLCANO_MIN:15]
   [REGION_COUNTS:SWAMP:0:2:0]
   [REGION_COUNTS:DESERT:0:2:0]
   [REGION_COUNTS:FOREST:0:3:0]
   [REGION_COUNTS:MOUNTAINS:350:6:0]
   [REGION_COUNTS:OCEAN:0:2:0]
   [REGION_COUNTS:GLACIER:0:2:0]
   [REGION_COUNTS:TUNDRA:0:2:0]
   [REGION_COUNTS:GRASSLAND:0:3:0]
   [REGION_COUNTS:HILLS:0:3:0]
   [EROSION_CYCLE_COUNT:300]
   [RIVER_MINS:55:120]
   [PERIODICALLY_ERODE_EXTREMES:0]
   [OROGRAPHIC_PRECIPITATION:1]
   [SUBREGION_MAX:5000]
   [CAVERN_LAYER_COUNT:3]
   [CAVERN_LAYER_OPENNESS_MIN:85]
   [CAVERN_LAYER_OPENNESS_MAX:100]
   [CAVERN_LAYER_PASSAGE_DENSITY_MIN:0]
   [CAVERN_LAYER_PASSAGE_DENSITY_MAX:15]
   [CAVERN_LAYER_WATER_MIN:0]
   [CAVERN_LAYER_WATER_MAX:100]
   [HAVE_BOTTOM_LAYER_1:1]
   [HAVE_BOTTOM_LAYER_2:1]
   [LEVELS_ABOVE_GROUND:16]
   [LEVELS_ABOVE_LAYER_1:7]
   [LEVELS_ABOVE_LAYER_2:2]
   [LEVELS_ABOVE_LAYER_3:2]
   [LEVELS_ABOVE_LAYER_4:2]
   [LEVELS_ABOVE_LAYER_5:2]
   [LEVELS_AT_BOTTOM:1]
   [CAVE_MIN_SIZE:15]
   [CAVE_MAX_SIZE:35]
   [MOUNTAIN_CAVE_MIN:65]
   [NON_MOUNTAIN_CAVE_MIN:130]
   [ALL_CAVES_VISIBLE:0]
   [SHOW_EMBARK_TUNNEL:1]
   [TOTAL_CIV_NUMBER:60]
   [TOTAL_CIV_POPULATION:8000]
   [SITE_CAP:1500]
   [PLAYABLE_CIVILIZATION_REQUIRED:1]
   [ELEVATION_RANGES:0:0:0]
   [RAIN_RANGES:0:0:0]
   [DRAINAGE_RANGES:0:0:0]
   [SAVAGERY_RANGES:1950:3400:4000]
   [VOLCANISM_RANGES:0:0:0]

Feel free to continue to make suggestions on changes to any parameter there.

[pisskop]

I will humbly back out if you all wish to play.

[ptb_ptb]

I will humbly back out if you all wish to play.

Eh, no need for anybody to back out. 

Either we'll have more turns or have more than one player per civilization (if we need to). No big deal either way.

We're just talking preferences here.

[Prudent Viper]

We can always justify it as a civil war/factional schism. This mean we're starting soon? Are all the kinks worked out?

[ptb_ptb]

This mean we're starting soon? Are all the kinks worked out?

Oh there are a few more things I'd like to consult on and decide. But I guess, pretty soon.

Sneak preview:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I'm thinking of using Phoebus' Graphics Set but I want to make it easy for people to switch to plain ascii and back (it shouldn't be a big deal). I'm also thinking of including the 'plantfix mod' and asking if there are any minor mods that people would like included. Like my 'Underpants for dwarves' mod.

I also had an idea to give the adventurer who wins each round a syndrome to represent the unearthly power he gains through this hideously unnatural ritual.
We'd need to get that decided before worldgen.

People reading this who haven't used an adventurer to take over a site - I suggest you do a 'test run' and see how easy it is (without cheating). I didn't quite manage it myself.

[Timeless Bob]

I usually edit the raws to make dwarven civs naturally tolerate and start in all the biomes that the goblins do - that helps the dwarves not be passed over when the race sorting begins.

(I believe the way it works right now, the program increments to a race, generates some random number of X and Y and compares that biome against what the race requires.  If the biome fits, the race is placed and the program moves down to the next race on the list as well as decrementing the number of races to still be placed.  If the biome requirements are not fit, the race is "skipped" and the process repeats again with the next race on the list.  This goes on until the number of races has been fulfilled.  So: dwarves have a very specific biome requirement while goblins and humans have a much wider one, therefore the dwarves aren't picked during the race placement nearly as often statistically.)

However, I usually also make "Playable Race Required: 0", because that allows some adventurer and dwarf races to die out during world gen and keeps that one hamlet from surviving massive pillages for two-hundred years for no reason other than it's on the "playable civ" list.

[ptb_ptb]

I usually edit the raws to make dwarven civs naturally tolerate and start in all the biomes that the goblins do - that helps the dwarves not be passed over when the race sorting begins.

Dwarves use the new EXCLUSIVE_START_BIOME tag to start their setting point, but nearby dwarven hillocks can be in most biomes except desert, swamp and tundra, right? (Just peeked at the wiki . I don't see why they couldn't have [SETTLEMENT_BIOME:FOREST_TAIGA] in there for a start. I also tried tweaking the biome support numbers up a bit.

entity_default.txt
[ENTITY:MOUNTAIN]
...
   [EXCLUSIVE_START_BIOME:MOUNTAIN]
   [SETTLEMENT_BIOME:ANY_FOREST]
   [SETTLEMENT_BIOME:MOUNTAIN]
   [SETTLEMENT_BIOME:ANY_GRASSLAND]
   [SETTLEMENT_BIOME:ANY_SAVANNA]
   [SETTLEMENT_BIOME:ANY_SHRUBLAND]
   [SETTLEMENT_BIOME:FOREST_TAIGA]
   [BIOME_SUPPORT:ANY_FOREST:2]
   [BIOME_SUPPORT:MOUNTAIN:4]
   [BIOME_SUPPORT:ANY_GRASSLAND:2]
   [BIOME_SUPPORT:ANY_SAVANNA:2]
   [BIOME_SUPPORT:ANY_SHRUBLAND:2]
   [BIOME_SUPPORT:ANY_RIVER:2]
   [BIOME_SUPPORT:FOREST_TAIGA:2]

However, I usually also make "Playable Race Required: 0", because that allows some adventurer and dwarf races to die out during world gen and keeps that one hamlet from surviving massive pillages for two-hundred years for no reason other than it's on the "playable civ" list.

I don't see that that change would cause any problems.

I'll see what those changes do to the number of dwarf civilizations surviving. Maybe do some more tweaks if they are still low.

[EDIT] Well, that went well. Got 7 dwarf civilizations on the first run through (might just be coincidence).  Pisskop will be pleased to know the world was still swamped with evil.