Bay 12 Games Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  
Pages: 1 [2]

Author Topic: Let's create a constitution because why not?  (Read 2773 times)

i2amroy

  • Bay Watcher
  • Cats, ruling the world one dwarf at a time
    • View Profile
Re: Let's create a constitution because why not?
« Reply #15 on: October 30, 2014, 03:40:46 am »

Can a non-citizen vote? Own property? Work?

If they can't own property or work, then how can they live in the country long enough to obtain citizenship?

If they can work, what is stopping a massive migration of individuals from other countries to move here for work?

If they can own property, what is stopping foreigners to buy property without actually entering the country?
I would say that a non-citizen can work.

For purposes of owning property I'd see two separate ways to go:
1) Anyone can own property assuming they pay any relevant taxes, i.e. factories could be taxed on their output, stores on their sales, houses with property tax, etc.
2) Non-citizens are allowed to own property assuming they are actively living within the country and working towards becoming citizens (which basically just means living there and not committing crimes). If a non-citizen fails to comply in this requirement then any owned property immediately defaults to the government.

For purposes of a massive migration, I'm not sure what is supposed to be bad about that. It would probably cause some crazy economics at the beginning, but once it settled down a bit you would have a powerhouse of a work base to go from (and since everyone would be a legal immigrant they should all be able to pay taxes). You would probably have some bad problems with unemployment at the beginning, but eventually the large amounts of cheap labor should draw in more jobs and it should stabilize out.

For voting I would probably say that only citizens have the right to vote.


As for re-election things, keep in mind that the more people you go through the less likely the system will remain stable. As a metaphor imagine a very large library. Now at this library the head librarian has a particular way of sorting books that he likes, and so he orders everyone to start using this method. As a result the shelvers jump to it, but before they are even close to being done with the massive task the head librarian is transferred to a different library and a new one comes in. This new head librarian has his own particular way of sorting books that he likes, and so he orders everyone to start using that method, and so one. The end result is that you end up with a bunch of eclectic systems, none of which are complete, and none of which work together fairly well.

My suggestion is that you double or triple the number of slots for each position of power (so you would have two presidents, for example), increase the term length, and then stagger the elections. (So instead of electing two new presidents with their own ideas of things every 4 years, you would elect one president every 3 years, with them serving 6 year terms, or 1 every 4 years with them serving 8 year terms). You could keep the restriction about not being able to run for re-election. That would allow your system to still constantly change as your voter base changed, but still maintain a sense of continuity and stability since you will always have at least one person in power from "the old way".
Logged
Quote from: PTTG
It would be brutally difficult and probably won't work. In other words, it's absolutely dwarven!
Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead - A fun zombie survival rougelike that I'm dev-ing for.

Cthulhu

  • Bay Watcher
  • A squid
    • View Profile
Re: Let's create a constitution because why not?
« Reply #16 on: October 30, 2014, 12:06:17 pm »

No more fake rights!  No guarantees that aren't truly inalienable.  Right to life can be denied, right to liberty, property, happiness or even the pursuit of it, the right-of-way can be denied by a driver's carelessness.

Truly death is the only human birthright that cannot be denied and any good constitution should reflect this.

Logged
Shoes...

cerapa

  • Bay Watcher
  • It wont bite....unless you are the sun.
    • View Profile
Re: Let's create a constitution because why not?
« Reply #17 on: October 30, 2014, 12:39:33 pm »

"The only two rights as a person within [INSERT_COUNTRY_NAME_HERE] is eternal servitude to the state and death. If a person is unable to take advantage of one of these rights, then they are obligated to use the other."
Logged

Tick, tick, tick the time goes by,
tick, tick, tick the clock blows up.

Zanzetkuken The Great

  • Bay Watcher
  • The Wizard Dragon
    • View Profile
Re: Let's create a constitution because why not?
« Reply #18 on: October 30, 2014, 01:23:44 pm »

Another system:

Structure

Tier 1
Operates over areas with a population total being one hundred thousand, or a 1000 square mile area, whichever comes first, which has a width to height or height to width ratio of at most 2:1.  This area will be refered to as a county.
10 representatives are elected from 5 districts of equal population.  All are elected to serve for 4 years, though one representative of each district is up for election while the other's term is halfway done.  Their jobs are to manage the county and create the laws for that county.  Laws cannot go against those made by a higher tier.  Laws are not enacted until they have been voted upon by members of the county, in twice yearly elections.  Internal court cases are heard by the representatives or one of the twenty-five elected judges, and are settled by a unanimous decision.

Tier 2
Operates over an area of one twentieth the counties in the country arranged in as close to a square area as possible.  This area will be refered to as a state.
2 representatives are elected from each of the counties.  All are elected to serve for 4 years, though one representative of each district is up for election while the other's term is halfway done.  Their jobs are to manage the state and create the laws for that state.  Laws cannot go against those made by a higher tier.  If there are less than twenty counties, then one less state would exist.  Laws and maintenance of the relations between counties require a 2/3rds majority to be enacted/decided.

Tier 3
Operates over the entirety of the nation.
2 representatives are elected from each of the states.  Their jobs are to enact foreign policy, secure the borders, and maintain relations between the states.  Two-thirds majority is needed to decide actions based in foreign policy and maintenance of the relations between states, while border security requires a 5/8 majority.

Overall Operation
Expenditure may not exceed revenue except in times of natural disaster or war.  When in debt, revenue should be focused upon eliminating it.  If expenditure is set to exceed revenue, core functions take precinct.
« Last Edit: October 30, 2014, 01:31:39 pm by Zanzetkuken The Great »
Logged
Quote from: Eric Blank
It's Zanzetkuken The Great. He's a goddamn wizard-dragon. He will make it so, and it will forever be.
Quote from: 2016 Election IRC
<DozebomLolumzalis> you filthy god-damn ninja wizard dragon

Cthulhu

  • Bay Watcher
  • A squid
    • View Profile
Re: Let's create a constitution because why not?
« Reply #19 on: October 30, 2014, 01:26:46 pm »

No free speech, no democracy, no nothing but death?

Those are fabrications.  A right is not by definition inalienable unless it cannot be revoked under any circumstances.  The only guarantees in life are death and taxes and not everyone pays taxes.
Logged
Shoes...

Bohandas

  • Bay Watcher
  • Discordia Vobis Com Et Cum Spiritum
    • View Profile
Re: Let's create a constitution because why not?
« Reply #20 on: October 30, 2014, 02:03:47 pm »

No free speech, no democracy, no nothing but death?

Those are fabrications.  A right is not by definition inalienable unless it cannot be revoked under any circumstances.  The only guarantees in life are death and taxes and not everyone pays taxes.

So "don't write checks that you can't cash" is what you're saying? That's a good sentiment but not very useful.
Logged
NEW Petition to stop the anti-consumer, anti-worker, Trans-Pacific Partnership agreement
What is TPP
----------------------
Remember, no one can tell you who you are except an emotionally unattached outside observer making quantifiable measurements.
----------------------
Έπαινος Ερις

Morrigi

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Let's create a constitution because why not?
« Reply #21 on: October 30, 2014, 08:26:50 pm »

No free speech, no democracy, no nothing but death?

Those are fabrications.  A right is not by definition inalienable unless it cannot be revoked under any circumstances.  The only guarantees in life are death and taxes and not everyone pays taxes.
Natural rights are not granted by any government or organization, and thus cannot be revoked. Only violated.
Logged
Cthulhu 2016! No lives matter! No more years! Awaken that which slumbers in the deep!
Pages: 1 [2]