Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[burned]

the graphics_example.txt profession tokens are incomplete.

Ah, great that you mention it. from a quick glance over the raws, the professions seem to be missing the medical jobs and

a few others recently added. I updated the wiki. Anything I missed? Entity tokens are incomplete, too, but I knew that. Is

the entity_default.txt raw file a complete list for both? Are all positions under the LAND_HOLDER section relevant for

graphics? Do they apply to all Civs, or only Dwarves? The other Civs don't seem to have entries regarding those

positions.

Right, I don't believe that list has been updated since around 31.xx - I am not sure exactly when it became outdated. My guess would be around when the ARSENAL_DWARF was removed and/or when healthcare was added.

When I originally put together my spreadsheet, I included current and legacy positions for the same reasons geoduck did. I wanted a creature graphic ready to go if a certain profession or similar replacement profession was thrown back in the game (philosopher, arsenal dwarf, dungeon master, etc). Also, if Toady implemented a way to once again provide profession concurrently with the undead state as he did previously, I wanted those graphics ready to go as well.

So, I don't know the current profession list versus the outdated, since my reference is everything that is and was. For instance, I clearly went overkill when creating the elves with more professions than they actually have (thankfully nothing breaks if you have something that doesn't exist).

Only after creating my set did I think to look at the entity_default.txt you mentioned. I did make some changes based on that.

I believe entity_default.txt does list all possible graphics with odd inconsistencies; it's not clear which syntax name you should be using in the graphics_mygraphics.txt. For example, while a princess or queen for the elf civ is named such in the game it is actually a GENERAL and LEADER respectively in the raws. Yet, the queen for the dwarf civ is under MONARCH alongside the king. To confuse matters further, I am positive [QUEEN:MYDWARVES:1:12:AS_IS:DEFAULT] works and [BARON_CONSORT:MYDWARVES:3:12:AS_IS:DEFAULT] works, but I am not sure if [KING_CONSORT:MYDWARVES:1:12:AS_IS:DEFAULT] or if [BARONESS:MYDWARVES:1:12:AS_IS:DEFAULT] works. Maybe they both do?

Also, I am not sure if all the listed professions in the entity_default.txt are truly used in the game. Is there a way to spawn a specific profession in the Object Testing Arena, you know, to test it? Heh.

[CLA]

I wanted a creature graphic ready to go if a certain profession or similar replacement profession was thrown back in the game (philosopher, arsenal dwarf, dungeon master, etc). Also, if Toady implemented a way to once again provide profession concurrently with the undead state as he did previously, I wanted those graphics ready to go as well.

Right, right. Same reason I made creature graphics for vermin and included them in the creature list. I'll definitely include a note about deprecated professions and that train of thought on the graphic set page.

So, I don't know the current profession list versus the outdated, since my reference is everything that is and was. For instance, I clearly went overkill when creating the elves with more professions than they actually have (thankfully nothing breaks if you have something that doesn't exist).

Yeah, I've been thinking, for a possible template, I would include every profession for every civ and all creatures, including vermin. Especially for creatures, that makes it easier to sort them in columns with child, -men and giant below the standard adult.

I believe entity_default.txt does list all possible graphics with odd inconsistencies; it's not clear which syntax name you should be using in the graphics_mygraphics.txt. For example, while a princess or queen for the elf civ is named such in the game it is actually a GENERAL and LEADER respectively in the raws. Yet, the queen for the dwarf civ is under MONARCH alongside the king. To confuse matters further, I am positive [QUEEN:MYDWARVES:1:12:AS_IS:DEFAULT] works and [BARON_CONSORT:MYDWARVES:3:12:AS_IS:DEFAULT] works, but I am not sure if [KING_CONSORT:MYDWARVES:1:12:AS_IS:DEFAULT] or if [BARONESS:MYDWARVES:1:12:AS_IS:DEFAULT] works. Maybe they both do?

I see. I will include a notes column on the entity token table for quirks like the elven terminology and a verify tag for the others.
What about the hierarchy of the entity tokens mentioned in graphics_example.txt? Is that complete? The first one, I assume is a placeholder for all positions (monarch, baron, leader, etc), and in the absence of that, it uses FORCED_ADMINISTRATOR, HIGH_PRIEST, PRIEST, SLAVE, PRISONER, in that order. Anything you think is missing from there?

I think for now I'll just list all entity tokens; and add a note that some entries might not work, but you can always assign them to graphics anyway. If it doesn't work, it's not like DF crashes. What would be a good channel to ask Toady about it? Email? FotF question? Though I wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't remember either. "[...], he he he."

Also, I am not sure if all the listed professions in the entity_default.txt are truly used in the game. Is there a way to spawn a specific profession in the Object Testing Arena, you know, to test it? Heh.

Not that I know of.
There's Raw Explorer, but that only shows creatures. I figure you could request display of child, animated, etc, as well as professions. Though I suspect it would just read the raws and graphic folder, with no knowledge of how it works, given that it displays graphics for vermin as well. Testing that kind of thing is really a pain in the ass.
EDIT:
You might be able to write something for DFhack. TWBT already allows you to reload the tileset with a command already.

[Dirst]

I noticed that the instructions are very specific to Photoshop.  They should probably be more general; Currently a lot of the space is taken use by listing specific menus. You assume non-Photoshop users are familiar with their software enough to figure these out, but not the Photoshop users.  It seems like the opposite would be true, that someone who spent over $100 on their art software is more likely to be someone who uses it frequently that someone using free software, like GrpahicsGale, GIMP, or Paint.net.

I think it would be helpful to have the first three or four steps spelled out for each major graphics package, probably in collapsible sections to reduce clutter.  Then just refer to tools by their names and trust the reader to look things up in the software's help.  That's probably better for long-term mastery of the software anyway.

After that intro, it's only important to say software-specific things when the tools diverge.  "Select the layer in foo mode (which is called 'bar' mode in GIMP), and paste the alpha channel onto your image..."

[burned]

What about the hierarchy of the entity tokens mentioned in graphics_example.txt? Is that complete? The first one, I assume is a placeholder for all positions (monarch, baron, leader, etc), and in the absence of that, it uses FORCED_ADMINISTRATOR, HIGH_PRIEST, PRIEST, SLAVE, PRISONER, in that order. Anything you think is missing from there?

I honestly don't know.

I think for now I'll just list all entity tokens; and add a note that some entries might not work, but you can always assign them to graphics anyway. If it doesn't work, it's not like DF crashes. What would be a good channel to ask Toady about it? Email? FotF question? Though I wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't remember either. "[...], he he he."

A FotF question would probably be ideal, because it won't be limited to Toady providing an answer. I suspect there might be a few others that know the answers, but perhaps those individuals just don't poke around in the Tileset and Graphics subforum - much like how your post under the DF Wiki Discussion subforum went under the radar.

[mifki]

TWBT already allows you to reload the tileset with a command already.

Not yet, actually. Only colormap at the moment.

[CLA]

TWBT already allows you to reload the tileset with a command already.

Not yet, actually. Only colormap at the moment.

Ah, I see.

Updated the Graphic set page with more information about position tokens as discussed above. Also moved "graphics" and "Graphic set" to the DF2014 namespace.

We also still need a location to document raw and init changes, especially the plant raw syntax. I'm not sure if that should go on a separate page and what it should be called.
The tileset page could use another section under "Detailed use list by type" for things on the map.
I imagine a 16x16 table of all tiles with color coded backgrounds ("used on map", "used in game", "used in both" "used on neither") would be of use as well.
What do you think?

Edit: added a draft of such a table here. Only added the tiles with no known use so far.

[CLA]

Stupid question:

Graphics set, or Graphic set?

[HaterSkater]

Stupid question:

Graphics set, or Graphic set?

Topic' names:
>Phoebus graphic set
>Spacefox graphic set
>CLA graphic set
>Obsidian graphic set

i think it's easier and better to stick with precedent rule here

[CLA]

>i think it's easier and better to stick with precedent rule here
Naturally. Problem is, the wiki refers to it everywhere as graphics set (except the instances I wrote myself). It's not a real issue, and I certainly won't waste too much time discussing it (I'll just make sure redirects work). Just figured, I'd ask.

[burned]

The new tentative list of positions are as follows:

PERFORMER (mixed poet/bard/dancer, or unskilled occupation holder)
POET
BARD
DANCER
SAGE (skilled scholar w/ 2+ specialities)
SCHOLAR (mixed scholar skills or unskilled occupation holder)
PHILOSOPHER
MATHEMATICIAN
HISTORIAN
ASTRONOMER
NATURALIST
CHEMIST
GEOGRAPHER
SCRIBE
PAPERMAKER
BOOKBINDER
TAVERN_KEEPER

This information does come from Toady, but it might be premature to add this to wiki until the actual inns and taverns release.
I wanted to share it with you (CLA and other wiki editors) and everyone else to better prep for the coming release.