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This game is dead!

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Author Topic: Ye Gods 1 OOC [21/∞] Talk here  (Read 414907 times)

Rolepgeek

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Re: Ye Gods OOC [16/∞] Sign up/talk here
« Reply #1380 on: November 19, 2014, 10:04:07 pm »

If someone will only give it back with a guarantee they won't get in trouble in exchange? That's doing it specifically so they don't get in trouble. If you really give it back in a spirit of repentance, while you would prefer, of course, not to be punished, you would accept any punishment given(theoretically, those judging would take your repentance into account, however).
Good and evil isn't always binary; sometimes it's on a sliding scale. It's true that turning yourself in would be the most good option available, but there are lesser options available, like putting the thing back. It has to do with intent.
If the person is putting it back just so he doesn't get in trouble, it's neutral at best. If the person is putting it back because he feels guilty AND doesn't want to get in trouble, it's good. If the person puts it back at all assuming it's guaranteed they won't ever get in trouble for keeping it then it's good. Turning one's self in is of course the ultimate good in the situation, there are lesser good options available that still fall under Good.

A. Mostly misinterpreting; my point is that by creating a race, in the expectation that they will die someday(maybe the peak of their physical fitness is actually towards the end of their lifespan specifically so that they can both gain plenty of combat experience from training and sparring and the like and so they live a long, happy, bountiful life), is not evil simply because they will die. I am not the one killing them, nor am I ending their lives especially early. I'm actually making it possible for them to live at all. Besides, who are you to say what's a good life? For that matter, who am I? There's been plenty of real life cultures in which a good life partially entailed dying a valiant death in battle(first one that comes to mind is Norse). And then, of course, there's the question; is a poor(or at least not great) life better or worse than no life at all?
D. I mean that if wars are all fought on that like we might end up making them, a warrior race won't actually die from the wars it's in.
E. When they're adults, yeah, they might be expected to fight, but it's not like I'd force 'em to, and it's not like any other race would be different, really. I'm creating a race whose children might be expected to fight and kill - so that races that would have to fight and die instead don't have to.
A. Just because you're responsible for their being able to live at all doesn't mean that you can doom them to a life of slaughter. I define a good life as one that the person enjoys living but that doesn't negatively impact other peoples' lives too greatly.
D. Fair enough.
E. Again, there's definitely argument for a warrior race being used for the greater good but not without accepting that it's a result of a lesser evil, even if said evil is overshadowed by its own local good.
A. It's not a life of slaughter, first off. It's making them good at fighting, and enjoying competition and friendly combat. If they don't like full on to-the-death fighting, well...you know what they say. Demons Run when a Good Man Goes to War. Secondly, defending your friends and family from an invading army, or going out to defend everyone's friends and family from it, would probably be on the side of positively impacting people's lives. Martyrdom, 'member? And free will.
D. Cool.
E. And thus we come to the concept of necessary evil, which certainly exists(sadly, and hopefully it won't, eventually, when all evil is gone). Besides which, what makes them an evil? Again, combat and/or a warrior race aren't necessarily evil.

Shouldn't the buyer choose what they're buying, rather than the seller choose what they're buying?

@Neron: I've challenged KJP's decision to sell one STF's weapons to you. I want to be able to choose which weapon I sell to you. Please don't do anything with the weapon yet.

How has this game not become a full on Greek tragedy? That's my question.
Mystic Snow.
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Stirk

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Re: Ye Gods OOC [16/∞] Sign up/talk here
« Reply #1381 on: November 19, 2014, 10:17:16 pm »

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Price check on Faultless (as in, no weak points; not the eye slit, not the joints, nothing) Armor? This would mostly be magical in the required secondary powers, since (most) of the armor's construction could be done by skilled smiths. No eye slits, but you still need to see. No weak joints, but you still need to move(though again, skilled enough smiths could mitigate a good portion of that). No exposed/breakable buckles, but you still need to get it on and off, etc. Most of the way this would work comes from the fact that in medieval times, armor was already good enough that to kill someone in armor you needed two things, or, often enough, both of them. Either you needed to attack at the weakpoints(which is why a lot of fights ended up as wrestling matches with stillettos, and the only reason longbows were as effective as they were(they couldn't get through breastplate, but they could certainly pierce chainmail, and horses didn't wear that much plate armor...)), or you need to hit hard enough to hurt them through the armor(aka really big hammers/maces, crossbows, etc.). The second one was the harder of the two, especially in melee, against a skilled opponent. Although crossbows ended up being banned for a reason...

Real life didn't have a God of Weapons making armor comparatively dull and useless.

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And then I'll just ask about Holy Weapons. (blah blah generic better weaponing blah righteous fire blah blah SMITING blah)

Weapons are the one where you should have given all your attention to. Why do you always prefer armor over a good, old fashioned weapon?

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But which one of us pulled the trigger? I would really like to know. Both from an IC and OOC perspective I have absolutely zero idea who dunnit.

You each brought an army to my door. Does it really matter who pulled the trigger? You are all equal accomplices. If three gangsters break into someone's cell and shoot him to death, they each get arrested and dried for murder.

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So you're saying that it's equivalent to steal something and keep it than steal something and return it? Are you sure you're the god of Good? What about guilt and/or redemption? Do they mean nothing?

Except the knives. Which you sold.

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Well, you have never sewn anyone, so that is a reason you can't sew them again. :P

PHONE! That is my excuse. Besides, I have, in fact, sewn someone. In secret.

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...So? First off, pretty sure ALL Power armor is like that(but it has weakpoints, like most power armour in sci fi), not just Master Chief's, second, I don't believe it increases reflexes for him, third, your point being? Power armor is used for a reason; it's powerful.

And Expyliciose!

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Don't be a dick and purposefully misinterpret me. I never said they are the same. I said that giving it back doesn't mean you didn't do it. If you give it back in a true spirit of repentance, it makes up somewhat for it. However, if you give it back just to try and not get in trouble?

Can you quite calling people "dicks"? It is really getting on my nerves.

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A. Everyone who's been made mortal will die anyway, and they will all be reborn anyway. So that's not really a good argument.

So, under that definition, murders and genocide are A-OK with the God of Goodness. They where all going to die anyway.

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The explicit order to throw egg in Fusils cell was given by good captn kal here. I would post a quote, but I am on phone.

Yeah. That egg didn't kill me. The egg isn't anything. Just a hunk of steel, that in no way has to be watched 24/7.

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How has this game not become a full on Greek tragedy? That's my question.

Yep, but we are the Gods, so we always come out on top.

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Re: Ye Gods OOC [16/∞] Sign up/talk here
« Reply #1382 on: November 19, 2014, 10:20:49 pm »

You each brought an army to my door. Does it really matter who pulled the trigger? You are all equal accomplices. If three gangsters break into someone's cell and shoot him to death, they each get arrested and dried for murder.
Ha! You cannot dry me! I'm the god of the sea! :P
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Stirk

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Re: Ye Gods OOC [16/∞] Sign up/talk here
« Reply #1383 on: November 19, 2014, 10:44:02 pm »

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Ha! You cannot dry me! I'm the god of the sea! :P

You called one of your elders and alder tree.

Also, if you where not there to kill me, what exactly did you hope to accomplish?
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Rolepgeek

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Re: Ye Gods OOC [16/∞] Sign up/talk here
« Reply #1384 on: November 19, 2014, 10:50:28 pm »

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Price check on Faultless (as in, no weak points; not the eye slit, not the joints, nothing) Armor? This would mostly be magical in the required secondary powers, since (most) of the armor's construction could be done by skilled smiths. No eye slits, but you still need to see. No weak joints, but you still need to move(though again, skilled enough smiths could mitigate a good portion of that). No exposed/breakable buckles, but you still need to get it on and off, etc. Most of the way this would work comes from the fact that in medieval times, armor was already good enough that to kill someone in armor you needed two things, or, often enough, both of them. Either you needed to attack at the weakpoints(which is why a lot of fights ended up as wrestling matches with stillettos, and the only reason longbows were as effective as they were(they couldn't get through breastplate, but they could certainly pierce chainmail, and horses didn't wear that much plate armor...)), or you need to hit hard enough to hurt them through the armor(aka really big hammers/maces, crossbows, etc.). The second one was the harder of the two, especially in melee, against a skilled opponent. Although crossbows ended up being banned for a reason...

Real life didn't have a God of Weapons making armor comparatively dull and useless.
True. However, not all weapons in the world are magic weapons, and these are meant to be produced in a mass scale; they're intended to be used against conventional weapons.

As well, there is no guarantee the weapons will be stronger than the armor, in cases of high magic potential.

Also you're dead.

Finally, I'm Good, and thus am going to be primarily defensive for multiple reasons(no reason to attack people who aren't Evil, no guarantee of who's Evil, punishing someone for a crime they haven't yet committed/conspired to commit is Evil and a dick move, if someone does attack, probably from a point of subterfuge, it's better to be able to survive that attack and thus be able to fight than die because I put everything into nukes instead of defensive capability, etc.), so armor is more helpful.

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And then I'll just ask about Holy Weapons. (blah blah generic better weaponing blah righteous fire blah blah SMITING blah)

Weapons are the one where you should have given all your attention to. Why do you always prefer armor over a good, old fashioned weapon?
If I might quote Sun Tzu:
"The good fighters of old first put themselves beyond the possibility of defeat, and then waited for an opportunity of defeating the enemy."

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...So? First off, pretty sure ALL Power armor is like that(but it has weakpoints, like most power armour in sci fi), not just Master Chief's, second, I don't believe it increases reflexes for him, third, your point being? Power armor is used for a reason; it's powerful.

And Expyliciose!
Totally. And I guess all your weapons were just expies, too. *rolls eyes* Power armor is used in enough stuff, and is done for reasons other than 'because it's cool', so no, not an expy. Are you purposefully being antagonistic?

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Don't be a dick and purposefully misinterpret me. I never said they are the same. I said that giving it back doesn't mean you didn't do it. If you give it back in a true spirit of repentance, it makes up somewhat for it. However, if you give it back just to try and not get in trouble?

Can you quite calling people "dicks"? It is really getting on my nerves.
I calls 'em how I sees 'em. If people appear to be acting in a dickish manner, they will be called out on it. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. In this case, I might have been overresponding a bit, and for that I apologize. But if someone's a dick, I'm going to make it clear that I recognize their dickery and do not approve of it. I could call people out on being assholes, or jerks, instead, but dick describes it nicely. You can get better from being a dick, after all; it's a lot harder to get better from being an asshole, and jerks do it on purpose, a lot of the time.

But yeah. I don't really put up with bullshit(though obviously sometimes I get things wrong) if I don't have to. When I screw up, I apologize(eventually, sorry about that...-.-').

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A. Everyone who's been made mortal will die anyway, and they will all be reborn anyway. So that's not really a good argument.

So, under that definition, murders and genocide are A-OK with the God of Goodness. They where all going to die anyway.
You're great at strawman arguments, you know that? Really, you are. You know what a strawman argument is, right? In any case, Andres already made that argument, I refuted it.

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How has this game not become a full on Greek tragedy? That's my question.
We're the gods, so where would the Deus Ex Machina come from?
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Rolepgeek

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Re: Ye Gods OOC [16/∞] Sign up/talk here
« Reply #1385 on: November 19, 2014, 10:56:22 pm »

Oh right, the thing I originally wanted to come onto the OOC thread to ask about.

What's the 'accidental' stabbing rate of the Seraphim as compared to the other races?
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Re: Ye Gods OOC [16/∞] Sign up/talk here
« Reply #1386 on: November 19, 2014, 10:59:27 pm »

I dunno. The almighty GodManager?
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Stirk

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Re: Ye Gods OOC [16/∞] Sign up/talk here
« Reply #1387 on: November 19, 2014, 11:03:21 pm »

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True. However, not all weapons in the world are magic weapons, and these are meant to be produced in a mass scale; they're intended to be used against conventional weapons.

There are 3 million enchantment enchanted expert blacksmiths called the Seppo, who focus on weapons being created by the God of Weapons. They freely trade large amounts of weapons to the other races. Even if one Seppo makes one weapon a day, you still have enough for literally every being in creation after a single tick.

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As well, there is no guarantee the weapons will be stronger than the armor, in cases of high magic potential.

There is when the God of Weapons says there is.

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Also you're dead.

 ::)

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"The good fighters of old first put themselves beyond the possibility of defeat, and then waited for an opportunity of defeating the enemy."

"Invincibility lies in the defence; the possibility of victory in the attack."

Same guy. As an almost-invincible god, we really need to win more than we need to be invincible.

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Totally. And I guess all your weapons were just expies, too. *rolls eyes* Power armor is used in enough stuff, and is done for reasons other than 'because it's cool', so no, not an expy. Are you purposefully being antagonistic?

No it isn't You pretty much admitted that it is done just caus' it is cool. And this is obviously the Shardplate you mentioned earlier. You are just not calling that in an attempt to skirt the expy rule. Don't treat me like an idiot, I do have eyes and an internet connection.

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I calls 'em how I sees 'em. If people appear to be acting in a dickish manner, they will be called out on it. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. In this case, I might have been overresponding a bit, and for that I apologize. But if someone's a dick, I'm going to make it clear that I recognize their dickery and do not approve of it. I could call people out on being assholes, or jerks, instead, but dick describes it nicely. You can get better from being a dick, after all; it's a lot harder to get better from being an asshole, and jerks do it on purpose, a lot of the time.

No it doesn't. It is a meaningless and juvenile word. If you wanted a word for "Generic Teenage Insult", it would be that. There is no strength behind it, no meaning. It is just an insult without purpose. By the way your using it, you might as well be slinging around the word "meanie!"

In other words, "for lack of better word", you are acting like a real meanie  >:(.

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You're great at strawman arguments, you know that? Really, you are. You know what a strawman argument is, right? In any case, Andres already made that argument, I refuted it.

No, master internet debater. Please, tell me what this "Strawman" argument is. I have never heard such archaic terms before. Please teach me your ways, most intelligent and reasonable person on the internet! For it is only you who can lead us poor, ignorant posters away from our own stupidity and into your genius!
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Re: Ye Gods OOC [16/∞] Sign up/talk here
« Reply #1388 on: November 19, 2014, 11:20:23 pm »

Okay, Warnings will soon be handed out. (Probably)
Can we stop the argument?
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Rolepgeek

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Re: Ye Gods OOC [16/∞] Sign up/talk here
« Reply #1389 on: November 19, 2014, 11:31:38 pm »

Spoilered because I'd already written the darned thing but Kaladin has a point(although I doubt warnings will actually be handed out as long as it's civil; that's like half of what the OOC thread is for) and also because it's starting to get really damned long.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

...SO HOW 'BOUT THEM SPORTS, HUH?
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Andres

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Re: Ye Gods OOC [16/∞] Sign up/talk here
« Reply #1390 on: November 19, 2014, 11:32:15 pm »

-snip-
I'm willing to accept the idea that a warrior race is at least neutral on two grounds.
1: The members of the race must have total quality of life has to be inherently equal to any other race. This is extremely difficult to accurately gauge because of the variables involved.
2: The members of the race must have equal opportunity to live a non-combat oriented life. For example, while a normal school for said race is allowed to primarily teach combat, a child should also have the opportunity to attend a school based on academics instead.

Shouldn't the buyer choose what they're buying, rather than the seller choose what they're buying?
Shouldn't the seller choose what they're selling, rather than the buyer choose what the seller's selling? In this case, a person chooses whether they want to buy one of STF's weapons. I choose which weapon to sell. End of story. No refunds.

You each brought an army to my door. Does it really matter who pulled the trigger? You are all equal accomplices. If three gangsters break into someone's cell and shoot him to death, they each get arrested and dried for murder.
Except in this case they were shooting a guy that they were totally allowed to kill and now they're on trial because the guy in the adjacent cell happened to die somehow while the shooting was going on.

Except the knives. Which you sold.
Not yet I haven't! ;D The point is that I'm not trying to be a dick about getting all the loot from the battle. That I already have loot is in this case irrelevant.

And Expyliciose!
*Expylicious. Not making fun of you. It's a hard word for even native speakers to spell.

As an almost-invincible god
I was going to say something here, but I think you already have a handle on what the 'almost' means. XD



God damn it you two. Please stop the arguing or you KNOW that KJP is gonna come on here with warnings. It's not nice for a GM to come on and see his players arguing with each other in a non-constructive fashion.
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Rolepgeek

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Re: Ye Gods OOC [16/∞] Sign up/talk here
« Reply #1391 on: November 19, 2014, 11:41:11 pm »

-snip-
I'm willing to accept the idea that a warrior race is at least neutral on two grounds.
1: The members of the race must have total quality of life has to be inherently equal to any other race. This is extremely difficult to accurately gauge because of the variables involved.
2: The members of the race must have equal opportunity to live a non-combat oriented life. For example, while a normal school for said race is allowed to primarily teach combat, a child should also have the opportunity to attend a school based on academics instead.
Well the second one's a given, though most of the time(in real life too) the parents choose what school the kid goes to. The races would be integrated with each other(Seraphim and whatever the warrior race would be called). First one, as you say, difficult to gauge.

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Shouldn't the buyer choose what they're buying, rather than the seller choose what they're buying?
Shouldn't the seller choose what they're selling, rather than the buyer choose what the seller's selling? In this case, a person chooses whether they want to buy one of STF's weapons. I choose which weapon to sell. End of story. No refunds.
Ah, see, I was hoping you might say that. See, you are choosing what you're selling. You're selling STF's weapons. However, for a buyer to buy from you at all, they are forced to choose STF's weapons, in this case. You don't go to a grocer and tell them you want to buy an orange, and they go back and pick out an orange and hand it to you. You find your own orange, because you want to be sure it's not rotted. Similarly, at a gun store, you don't say 'I want a gun' and are just handed whatever the owner wants to sell you. Thus, while you are choosing to sell STF's weapons(as you have a larger variety to pick from) a buyer has to choose STF's weapons, as there are no other options. If they were able to choose which weapon they wanted to buy, they could choose which specific thing they bought, while you chose your general stock of merchandise. You can, of course, refuse to sell a specific weapon, but they should also be able to refuse to buy a weapon you try to fob off on them, like this.

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Except in this case they were shooting a guy that they were totally allowed to kill and now they're on trial because the guy in the adjacent cell happened to die somehow while the shooting was going on.
except for the part where they still killed a guy, and while it was technically legal due to a legal loophole the entire jury knows it was murder and we have a case of Al Capone.

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Not yet I haven't! ;D The point is that I'm not trying to be a dick about getting all the loot from the battle. That I already have loot is in this case irrelevant.
It...it kind of is...

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God damn it you two. Please stop the arguing or you KNOW that KJP is gonna come on here with warnings. It's not nice for a GM to come on and see his players arguing with each other in a non-constructive fashion.
I can't help it!

Debate is like crack to me!

I was supposed to be studying damnit!
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Stirk

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Re: Ye Gods OOC [16/∞] Sign up/talk here
« Reply #1392 on: November 19, 2014, 11:54:07 pm »

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Except in this case they were shooting a guy that they were totally allowed to kill and now they're on trial because the guy in the adjacent cell happened to die somehow while the shooting was going on.

"Happened to die" when you just "happen" to be attacking the guards? What effect did you expect it to have, if not killing me?

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Not yet I haven't! ;D The point is that I'm not trying to be a dick about getting all the loot from the battle. That I already have loot is in this case irrelevant.

 ::) You killed me and took my stuff. How much you took is irrelevant.

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*Expylicious. Not making fun of you. It's a hard word for even native speakers to spell.

 ???

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I was going to say something here, but I think you already have a handle on what the 'almost' means. XD

 ::)

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For the record, I still don't know how long a tick actually is. But anyway.

Somewhere between a Decade and a century, never really decided.

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A. Not all of the people in a race will be one single profession, some will be more or less skilled, blahblah Planets of Hats aren't a thing in this game(at least I hope not; that would annihilate my suspension of disbelief pretty well).

I paid extra to give them all expert blacksmithing skills. So no, they can all smith. They still have farmers and stuff (Well, the Armu generally do more of the stuff like that), but every one of them is capable of making a weapon better than your races are capable of making armor, save for the best blacksmiths. The enchanting abilities means that they can also make them more powerful magically, at least on a larger scale, and the Armu can wield more of them better than your race can. If that kills your suspension if disbelief, give your essence to the "Revive Fusil" fund and quit.

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First off, it's not a rule

Look in the OP. It is literally right there. Captain Estraz is just harder to spell. I already taught you this, you have no excuse. Or are you just being a "dick' and deliberately ignoring that?

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Second off, he said 'or tone down'

You just toned it up, by giving it even more powers based on the expy....

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Thirdly, Shardplate(unless I'm horribly misremembering) doesn't act as full magic power armor like this stuff does.

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Shardplate is magically-enhanced plate armor that offers great protection and also massively enhances the wearer's strength, speed and dexterity....Shardplate is composed of interlocking plates covering the wearer's entire body....Shardplate appears able to regenerate from virtually any damage so long as enough time and Stormlight are available,.....

There is more, but who are you trying to fool? I even linked to a page explaining it.

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B. Weaponcrafting takes a lot longer than a day

Not really. I have friends who can make a knife in a day, and they hardly are expert blacksmiths.

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D. The dead God of Weapons is not making the weapons himself. While they will certainly be high-quality, they are not necessarily all magic. Which brings me to my next one.

The enchantment enchanting does not grant the entire race enchantments, but it does mean that they have enough to enchant most if not all weaponry.

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E. Not all of the weapons they make will be magic. Or at least it's very, very, very likely that not all of them will be. For many reasons, some of which may not apply depending on factors I don't know, and some reasons I might not be mentally including because of factors I don't know.

You don't know anything about this game, and you don't know my races better than I do.

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Fifthly, it doesn't have the whole bound to a single person(I think it basically teleports on, right?), breaking in glowing cracks thing Shardplate has going

Wow! So it has all the advantages of the Shardplate, without the disadvantages? TOTALLY DIFFERENT! I am sure to get working on a batman angel, but he uses guns so it doesn't count.

Also, no. The link I showed openly stated that they have attendants help them get it on, from the feet up.

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Sixthly, I knew I wanted some good magic armor. I also knew how combat worked(somewhat, I'm probably wrong on a lot of shit since I'm at that barest level of knowledge) back then. Cheapest way to get high quality armor is an armor without a single chink. I've seen it done in other games as well, without being based on Shardplate.

You just happen to give all those super strength, dexterity, speed, regeneration, and a bunch of other Shardplate abilities, too?

This game isn't the other games you are playing. Maybe it is time to stop pretending it is?

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So no, I'm not doing it to avert the expy rule, nor do I want to treat you like an idiot. You know, I think you are trying to be antagonistic. You're good at that.

Yes, you are on both accounts. The fact you are still trying to fight this is evidence of that.

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(in other words, a 'meanie', but do you honestly want me saying that instead?)

You would honestly sound more mature than that sentence just now.

And the rest is just pure insulting me, no reason to even give it a second glance.
« Last Edit: November 19, 2014, 11:58:27 pm by Stirk »
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Re: Ye Gods OOC [16/∞] Sign up/talk here
« Reply #1393 on: November 19, 2014, 11:59:15 pm »

Woot! Hear that? The Gruen have one of the lowest amounts of "accidental stabbing" cases in their society.

Go Grauel's utopian society!
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Re: Ye Gods OOC [16/∞] Sign up/talk here
« Reply #1394 on: November 20, 2014, 12:01:51 am »

Stirk, just let the GM decide if the armor is allowed.
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