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Author Topic: [0.42&0.43] The Earth Strikes Back! v2.15 - It's a mine... it's-a not yours!  (Read 45365 times)

vjmdhzgr

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Re: [40.24] The Earth Strikes Back! v1.30 - Like mining, but with more bloodshed
« Reply #60 on: September 03, 2015, 05:52:04 pm »

Suggestion:
- A new metal (vein) that spawns strong enemies 100% of the time.
- A new gem (single stone) that spawns a megabeast-like enemy 100% of the time.

You like deep steel? Fight for it.
You want an arkenstone? Defeat it's guardian.
The problem with this idea is that you could then just buy it if your civilization has access to it, and most civilizations have access to most materials, especially if you make them common enough you'd be able to find them on most embark sites.
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Dirst

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Re: [40.24] The Earth Strikes Back! v1.30 - Like mining, but with more bloodshed
« Reply #61 on: September 03, 2015, 10:55:31 pm »

The problem with this idea is that you could then just buy it if your civilization has access to it, and most civilizations have access to most materials, especially if you make them common enough you'd be able to find them on most embark sites.
There are two ways to handle that.  The first is to make the metal so damned expensive you can't buy it on embark, and probably not from a caravan until the late game.  The second is make the vein use the soil template (stone, except you can't make anything out of it), and use a script to drop special stuff made out of a completely different material that has no natural environment.

The second sounds complicated, but it's what I'm already doing for Hidden Gems.

I'm leaning toward a "specialler" kind of cluster that's basically a void: mine out one tile and the whole cluster evaporates, with a baddie inside and perhaps some treasure.  The drawback is that I'd be back to crowding out mundane gem clusters.  Making a void appear the same way Hidden Gems or Living Stone does seems really really complicated, but it has the advantage that I can control the size of the void.  Maybe the inhabitant depends on the size of the void, too.

In any case, not going to be in v1.31 and unlikely in v1.32.
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On hiatus. Feel free to adopt or update:
(0.42 & 0.43) The Earth Strikes Back! v2.15 - Pay attention...  It's a mine!  It's-a not yours!
(0.42 & 0.43) Appearance Tweaks v1.03 - Tease those hippies about their pointy ears.
(0.42 & 0.43) Accessibility Utility v1.04 - Console tools to navigate the map

Meph

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Re: [40.24] The Earth Strikes Back! v1.30 - Like mining, but with more bloodshed
« Reply #62 on: September 04, 2015, 06:43:35 am »

Suggestion:
- A new metal (vein) that spawns strong enemies 100% of the time.
- A new gem (single stone) that spawns a megabeast-like enemy 100% of the time.

You like deep steel? Fight for it.
You want an arkenstone? Defeat it's guardian.
The problem with this idea is that you could then just buy it if your civilization has access to it, and most civilizations have access to most materials, especially if you make them common enough you'd be able to find them on most embark sites.
Very easy solution: [SPECIAL]. Civs dont trade metals with that tag, just like dwarves do not trade adamantine.

Dirst, can you make "voids" that are empty at embark? Aka worldgen plants a cluster or vein of a material, but as soon as you embark, the material is replaced with open-space or floors? I think it would be awesome if dwarves could run into mini-caverns, like veins that are already dug-out and you can quickly move through them. With or without creatures or items inside, just some open area would be nice.
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Dirst

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Re: [40.24] The Earth Strikes Back! v1.30 - Like mining, but with more bloodshed
« Reply #63 on: September 04, 2015, 09:10:21 am »

Suggestion:
- A new metal (vein) that spawns strong enemies 100% of the time.
- A new gem (single stone) that spawns a megabeast-like enemy 100% of the time.

You like deep steel? Fight for it.
You want an arkenstone? Defeat it's guardian.
The problem with this idea is that you could then just buy it if your civilization has access to it, and most civilizations have access to most materials, especially if you make them common enough you'd be able to find them on most embark sites.
Very easy solution: [SPECIAL]. Civs dont trade metals with that tag, just like dwarves do not trade adamantine.

Dirst, can you make "voids" that are empty at embark? Aka worldgen plants a cluster or vein of a material, but as soon as you embark, the material is replaced with open-space or floors? I think it would be awesome if dwarves could run into mini-caverns, like veins that are already dug-out and you can quickly move through them. With or without creatures or items inside, just some open area would be nice.
They can't be empty at embark, nor will they boil away on their own unless mined, but a script can watch for when a tile is exposed and remove all contiguous tiles of the "void material".

This method crowds out normal veins or clusters.

The other method above makes them pop up at random, but the script needs to respect any boundaries of revealed tiles, veins and clusters.  This means the procedure needs to be prepared to make a smaller-than-planned void, or even abort the void and put a single-tile special instead.

It will be an interesting challenge, but Wyrms and generic Tribute buildings are the next things in queue.
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On hiatus. Feel free to adopt or update:
(0.42 & 0.43) The Earth Strikes Back! v2.15 - Pay attention...  It's a mine!  It's-a not yours!
(0.42 & 0.43) Appearance Tweaks v1.03 - Tease those hippies about their pointy ears.
(0.42 & 0.43) Accessibility Utility v1.04 - Console tools to navigate the map

Meph

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Re: [40.24] The Earth Strikes Back! v1.30 - Like mining, but with more bloodshed
« Reply #64 on: September 04, 2015, 09:57:34 am »

Quote
Wyrms and generic Tribute buildings
?
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Dirst

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Re: [40.24] The Earth Strikes Back! v1.30 - Like mining, but with more bloodshed
« Reply #65 on: September 04, 2015, 03:33:52 pm »

Quote
Wyrms and generic Tribute buildings
?
The goal for 1.31 is to add Wyrms as a higher-level Awakened Stone (e.g., Andesite Wyrm) plus some miscellaneous fixes and an alternate path to getting Favor.

The goal for 1.32 is to make a single Tribute building that does different things based on the material from which it's made.
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On hiatus. Feel free to adopt or update:
(0.42 & 0.43) The Earth Strikes Back! v2.15 - Pay attention...  It's a mine!  It's-a not yours!
(0.42 & 0.43) Appearance Tweaks v1.03 - Tease those hippies about their pointy ears.
(0.42 & 0.43) Accessibility Utility v1.04 - Console tools to navigate the map

vjmdhzgr

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Re: [40.24] The Earth Strikes Back! v1.30 - Like mining, but with more bloodshed
« Reply #66 on: September 04, 2015, 05:14:22 pm »

Suggestion:
- A new metal (vein) that spawns strong enemies 100% of the time.
- A new gem (single stone) that spawns a megabeast-like enemy 100% of the time.

You like deep steel? Fight for it.
You want an arkenstone? Defeat it's guardian.
The problem with this idea is that you could then just buy it if your civilization has access to it, and most civilizations have access to most materials, especially if you make them common enough you'd be able to find them on most embark sites.
Very easy solution: [SPECIAL]. Civs dont trade metals with that tag, just like dwarves do not trade adamantine.

Dirst, can you make "voids" that are empty at embark? Aka worldgen plants a cluster or vein of a material, but as soon as you embark, the material is replaced with open-space or floors? I think it would be awesome if dwarves could run into mini-caverns, like veins that are already dug-out and you can quickly move through them. With or without creatures or items inside, just some open area would be nice.
For some reason I had thought that the [SPECIAL] token was tied to the metal showing up in the lava sea, but I forgot that that's something else.

Also please don't do that empty space thing, I might need to build walls instead of just mine them out which would mean I couldn't engrave them it sounds like a nightmare.
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Dirst

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Re: [40.24] The Earth Strikes Back! v1.30 - Like mining, but with more bloodshed
« Reply #67 on: September 04, 2015, 05:26:04 pm »

Also please don't do that empty space thing, I might need to build walls instead of just mine them out which would mean I couldn't engrave them it sounds like a nightmare.
These would be in deep areas, uncommon even there, and only 3 or 4 tiles across.  Haven't thought through if they'd be pre-placed persistently, pre-placed each time the map is loaded, or truly pop up at random during mining.

I understand that voiding out a whole vein-shaped area or large cluster could wreak havoc on fort designs.  There's no need to reinvent the Caverns.
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On hiatus. Feel free to adopt or update:
(0.42 & 0.43) The Earth Strikes Back! v2.15 - Pay attention...  It's a mine!  It's-a not yours!
(0.42 & 0.43) Appearance Tweaks v1.03 - Tease those hippies about their pointy ears.
(0.42 & 0.43) Accessibility Utility v1.04 - Console tools to navigate the map

Dirst

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Re: [40.24] The Earth Strikes Back! v1.31 - And this time it's angry.
« Reply #68 on: September 10, 2015, 07:16:24 am »

Version 1.31 is posted.  This changes some more stuff under the hood, but there are some new features you'll notice very soon.

1. Sometimes instead of an Awakened Stone you'll release a rocky Wyrm.  These start about the same size as an Awakened Stone but grow to dragon size in four weeks.
2. Hostile Awakened Stones and Wyrms now spawn berzerk, which can change the fortunes of your miner for the worse.
3. Favor is now available by divine secret.  You could actually get a migrant who already has a Favor syndrome.  But don't worry, the RNG doesn't like you that much.
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On hiatus. Feel free to adopt or update:
(0.42 & 0.43) The Earth Strikes Back! v2.15 - Pay attention...  It's a mine!  It's-a not yours!
(0.42 & 0.43) Appearance Tweaks v1.03 - Tease those hippies about their pointy ears.
(0.42 & 0.43) Accessibility Utility v1.04 - Console tools to navigate the map

Jazzeraint

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Re: [40.24] The Earth Strikes Back! v1.31 - And this time it's angry.
« Reply #69 on: September 12, 2015, 01:44:34 am »

Version 1.31 is posted.  This changes some more stuff under the hood, but there are some new features you'll notice very soon.

1. Sometimes instead of an Awakened Stone you'll release a rocky Wyrm.  These start about the same size as an Awakened Stone but grow to dragon size in four weeks.
2. Hostile Awakened Stones and Wyrms now spawn berzerk, which can change the fortunes of your miner for the worse.
3. Favor is now available by divine secret.  You could actually get a migrant who already has a Favor syndrome.  But don't worry, the RNG doesn't like you that much.

Love it.

Could you explain 3. in more detail? It makes it sound like a necromancer book, except far less useful.
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Dirst

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Re: [40.24] The Earth Strikes Back! v1.31 - And this time it's angry.
« Reply #70 on: September 12, 2015, 02:56:45 pm »

Version 1.31 is posted.  This changes some more stuff under the hood, but there are some new features you'll notice very soon.

1. Sometimes instead of an Awakened Stone you'll release a rocky Wyrm.  These start about the same size as an Awakened Stone but grow to dragon size in four weeks.
2. Hostile Awakened Stones and Wyrms now spawn berzerk, which can change the fortunes of your miner for the worse.
3. Favor is now available by divine secret.  You could actually get a migrant who already has a Favor syndrome.  But don't worry, the RNG doesn't like you that much.

Love it.

Could you explain 3. in more detail? It makes it sound like a necromancer book, except far less useful.
Well, that's because it's like a necromancer's book, except far less useful :)

Due to a quirk in worldgen, only people with the Immortality goal will seek out divine secrets... so these Secrets are associated with the Immortality goal.  I kinda feel bad about the bait-and-switch there.

At present, anyone can get and store a slab, but only a necromancer in a tower will write s Secret into a book.  A necromancer who also knows one of these Secrets will pass it on to apprentices, and write distinct books about each secret they know.
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On hiatus. Feel free to adopt or update:
(0.42 & 0.43) The Earth Strikes Back! v2.15 - Pay attention...  It's a mine!  It's-a not yours!
(0.42 & 0.43) Appearance Tweaks v1.03 - Tease those hippies about their pointy ears.
(0.42 & 0.43) Accessibility Utility v1.04 - Console tools to navigate the map

Jazzeraint

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Re: [40.24] The Earth Strikes Back! v1.31 - And this time it's angry.
« Reply #71 on: September 13, 2015, 01:38:17 pm »

Well, that's because it's like a necromancer's book, except far less useful :)

Due to a quirk in worldgen, only people with the Immortality goal will seek out divine secrets... so these Secrets are associated with the Immortality goal.  I kinda feel bad about the bait-and-switch there.

At present, anyone can get and store a slab, but only a necromancer in a tower will write s Secret into a book.  A necromancer who also knows one of these Secrets will pass it on to apprentices, and write distinct books about each secret they know.

Oh, well then. ;)

New round of ideas:
1. Awakened Stones have a variable chance to spawn benign, hostile, or hostile & berserk
2. Instead of planting gem seeds and having a ton of reactions, just have two or three reactions that accomplish the same result sans-farming with GET_ITEM_DATA to produce their results
3. Rework tribute so that it's a syndrome buff with a duration that's gained from sacrificing a hidden gem - drawing power from the living stone and embers of creation, rather than using it to pacify awakened stones
4. Wyrms always start hostile and have a chance to spawn hostile & berserk; have some lore about them
5. Instead of a secret giving the protective favor syndrome, have the Secret instead be a Rock-mancer. That is, it gives you the power to AWAKEN STONE since you learned the secrets of the embers of creation.
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Meph

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Re: [40.24] The Earth Strikes Back! v1.31 - And this time it's angry.
« Reply #72 on: September 14, 2015, 08:08:59 am »

Well, that's because it's like a necromancer's book, except far less useful :)

Due to a quirk in worldgen, only people with the Immortality goal will seek out divine secrets... so these Secrets are associated with the Immortality goal.  I kinda feel bad about the bait-and-switch there.

At present, anyone can get and store a slab, but only a necromancer in a tower will write s Secret into a book.  A necromancer who also knows one of these Secrets will pass it on to apprentices, and write distinct books about each secret they know.

Oh, well then. ;)

New round of ideas:
1. Awakened Stones have a variable chance to spawn benign, hostile, or hostile & berserk
2. Instead of planting gem seeds and having a ton of reactions, just have two or three reactions that accomplish the same result sans-farming with GET_ITEM_DATA to produce their results
3. Rework tribute so that it's a syndrome buff with a duration that's gained from sacrificing a hidden gem - drawing power from the living stone and embers of creation, rather than using it to pacify awakened stones
4. Wyrms always start hostile and have a chance to spawn hostile & berserk; have some lore about them
5. Instead of a secret giving the protective favor syndrome, have the Secret instead be a Rock-mancer. That is, it gives you the power to AWAKEN STONE since you learned the secrets of the embers of creation.
1. ok.
2. great idea, I'd do it.
3. why not both? Gives the player the option to get either or.
4. ok... I'd indroduce more castes of wyrms with special attacks.
5. Again, why not both? Geomancer or Geomantic Mage + whatever you have atm.
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::: ☼Meph Tileset☼☼Map Tileset☼- 32x graphic sets with TWBT :::
::: ☼MASTERWORK DF☼ - A comprehensive mod pack now on Patreon - 250.000+ downloads and counting :::
::: WorldBicyclist.com - Follow my bike tours around the world - 148 countries visited :::

Dirst

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Re: [40.xx] The Earth Strikes Back! v1.31 - And this time it's angry.
« Reply #73 on: September 14, 2015, 09:37:40 am »

It looks like 1.32 is going to be relatively quick with just some bug fixes (and I'm trying to make it play nice with the Starter Pack's mod merge tool).

Just some quick notes before I get back to work:

1 & 4: I don't like hostiles always coming out berserk, but it's the only way I can guarantee a sustained fight.  Dialing berserkness down to a percentage chance seems like a good change.  I do want the Favor to influence their behavior, though.

2: Not sure why the number of reactions is a problem; no more than three appear at any given workshop.  Is it causing problems with the Manager screen, plant stockpiles, or something?

3: There are two paths I can take in simplifying Tribute, neither of which I'm certain will work.  First, I can have the player build a generic Tribute that DFHack then poofs into a specific Tribute based on its material.  This has the advantage that you can tell what a Tribute is by scrolling over it.  Second, I can reduce the Tribute to a single building and DFHack the results of reactions based on the Tribute material.  This will decrease the reaction count considerably, but it also means there will only be one type of Tribute graphic in Stonesense.

For that matter, has anyone even noticed the Stonesense graphics? :)

5: I still want Favor to affect the behavior of Living Stone, and I've been working on an Animate Stone effect on and off for a while.  The main problem is that interactions can't target items (such as boulders), so it would need to be an aura around the creature that works without the game really understanding what's happening.  That is, to the best of my DFHackery, an invader who could animate andesite would not arrive with any Animated Andesites in tow nor would he seek out andesite boulders on the map to use against the fort.  Of course the player can take advantage of the animating ability just fine with some creative pathing.

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On hiatus. Feel free to adopt or update:
(0.42 & 0.43) The Earth Strikes Back! v2.15 - Pay attention...  It's a mine!  It's-a not yours!
(0.42 & 0.43) Appearance Tweaks v1.03 - Tease those hippies about their pointy ears.
(0.42 & 0.43) Accessibility Utility v1.04 - Console tools to navigate the map

Jazzeraint

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Re: [40.xx] The Earth Strikes Back! v1.31 - And this time it's angry.
« Reply #74 on: September 14, 2015, 01:26:45 pm »

2: Not sure why the number of reactions is a problem; no more than three appear at any given workshop.  Is it causing problems with the Manager screen, plant stockpiles, or something?

It isn't, the planting was; this skirts around that matter. Also, ELEGANCE!


For that matter, has anyone even noticed the Stonesense graphics? :)

Are they haxalicious? I always use ASCII after changing graphics fuxed up a mod & install once. (Plus ASCII, come on)
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