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Author Topic: Trivial findings  (Read 442254 times)

TheFlame52

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Re: Trivial findings
« Reply #675 on: May 02, 2016, 08:14:50 pm »

Forgotten beasts that settle in fortresses can raid the surface.

Dozebôm Lolumzalìs

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Re: Trivial findings
« Reply #676 on: May 02, 2016, 08:17:31 pm »

As some of us are discovering, volcanoes slowly overtop these days.  If you catch it early, it's not hard to solve that:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

The magma sea also has the same problem, now -- but without any lower place to drain it, you're kind of screwed.  Build pumps to raise magma so you don't have to stay on the dangerous part, and wait until it fills enough to start diverting it.

NOT. TRIVIAL.

SHIT WHAT HOW THE HELL DID THAT HAPPEN RED ALERT MAGMA OVERFLOW

Is this verifiable and reproducible in every embark? DOES IT EVER END??
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Corona688

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Re: Trivial findings
« Reply #677 on: May 03, 2016, 10:41:50 am »

NOT. TRIVIAL.

SHIT WHAT HOW THE HELL DID THAT HAPPEN RED ALERT MAGMA OVERFLOW

Is this verifiable and reproducible in every embark? DOES IT EVER END??

It's less alarming than it looks.  Magma will evaporate like 1/7 water if you give it room to overflow.  The big "pit" turned out to be unnecessary, the six tiles leading to it were plenty to sop up and dissipate the overflow.  Handling the magma sea would be a lot harder of course, there's nowhere to put it but up...  Build your forges one level higher and pump, I guess.

Toady has hinted that eruption rates may not be constant, but this was before eruptions ever happened at all, so that may not be a feature yet.

It happens on the magma sea in my last pregenned fort reclaim.  It's happened in the last 3 volcanoes I embarked at.  I only have speculation, but I think it's a property of the magma sea any vents connecting to it.  The little magma pools you find in caves, I don't think overtop, but I haven't seen one lately so that's just a guess.

I have been informed that this does NOT happen to the magma sea, not unless you have a magma pipe, too.  My experience there was atypical, as the fort generated right INSIDE a magma pipe.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2016, 11:47:36 am by Corona688 »
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Corona688

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Re: Trivial findings
« Reply #678 on: May 05, 2016, 08:45:02 pm »

Noticed something mildly weird when hollowing out more rooms in a reclaimed fort;  walls seem to come out smoothed when you dig in a fortress area.  The floors don't, but the walls do.
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Saiko Kila

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Re: Trivial findings
« Reply #679 on: May 10, 2016, 11:00:12 am »

If water loses flow it can lose pressure:
Code: [Select]
7OOOOO
7OO#X_
7777OO
7 = Water, O = Wall, X = Drawbridge, # = Floor grate

The intake is from beneath a brook. I shut the bridge for maintenance, and when I opened it again the water refused to flow up through the grate. This might only apply when the water has another escape route (e.g., the brook to the map edge.)

This is causing me constant headache, because depending on flow (or lack of it) my wells either overflow when filling or are filled safely. Thus I need to save before each filling, since changes of flow in my setup are semi-random.
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Bumber

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Re: Trivial findings
« Reply #680 on: May 10, 2016, 11:19:44 am »

If water loses flow it can lose pressure:
Code: [Select]
7OOOOO
7OO#X_
7777OO
7 = Water, O = Wall, X = Drawbridge, # = Floor grate

The intake is from beneath a brook. I shut the bridge for maintenance, and when I opened it again the water refused to flow up through the grate. This might only apply when the water has another escape route (e.g., the brook to the map edge.)
This is causing me constant headache, because depending on flow (or lack of it) my wells either overflow when filling or are filled safely. Thus I need to save before each filling, since changes of flow in my setup are semi-random.
Reset the pressure with a diagonal. That way it won't overflow.

My issue could've been avoided by putting the drawbridge in the area underneath, so that the flow has an opportunity to start by pouring sideways. Unfortunately, I had no way of draining it, so I had to extend the lower area a bit.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2016, 11:21:45 am by Bumber »
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Kogan Onulsodel

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Re: Trivial findings
« Reply #681 on: May 10, 2016, 01:12:58 pm »

If water loses flow it can lose pressure:
Code: [Select]
7OOOOO
7OO#X_
7777OO
7 = Water, O = Wall, X = Drawbridge, # = Floor grate

The intake is from beneath a brook. I shut the bridge for maintenance, and when I opened it again the water refused to flow up through the grate. This might only apply when the water has another escape route (e.g., the brook to the map edge.)

This is causing me constant headache, because depending on flow (or lack of it) my wells either overflow when filling or are filled safely. Thus I need to save before each filling, since changes of flow in my setup are semi-random.

Generally speaking, I avoid these problems using feedback: Put a pressure plate triggered by water in your cistern and have your floodgate open or close based on the water level. I'm not sure how big a cistern you need for this problem to simply become ignorable (because of the time delay... also, it depends on how long an aqueduct downstream of the floodgate you have, because a longer aqueduct means that you need a larger cistern to accommodate the additional water in the aqueduct), but it's certainly doable.

Actually, I use this kind of simple feedback for most things involving fluid in my fort. I'm a very firm believer in feedback.
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Melting Sky

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Re: Trivial findings
« Reply #682 on: May 11, 2016, 05:44:09 am »

I just got a titan that lives in an evil biome.  It has a few differences from regular titans.  For one, instead of describing its demeanor, it says it "undulates rhythmically" the way it would for a forgotten beast or demon.  Second, it's associated with treachery, the way good-biome titans are identified with stuff like peace or charity (speak of the devil, I've got a hill titan in the Joyous Wilds biome I'm eyeing.  Hopefully I'll be able to not bother it.)  In a sense, it's presented almost like a FB that walks the surface.

Titans are just surface-dwelling forgotten beasts. Associations don't really mean anything here--it's basically just local superstition.

Actually there are some minor differences between Titans and FBs. It was ages ago when I discovered this so the details are hazy but there are certain nasty special attacks that FBs can have but Titans can't. I think the infamous deadly dust is one of them if I remember properly but it was years ago now that I looked into it. I think some of the others included noxious vapors, deadly blood and some of the other more nasty and eldritch abilities you see on FBs sometimes. Titans are restricted to a smaller repertoire of possible special attacks.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2016, 05:53:06 am by Melting Sky »
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Melting Sky

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Re: Trivial findings
« Reply #683 on: May 11, 2016, 05:44:32 am »

Sorry, that last post timed out and ended up duplicated.
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Libash_Thunderhead

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Re: Trivial findings
« Reply #684 on: May 11, 2016, 07:37:09 am »

When a ghost is put to rest, its corpse becomes normal(☺) if it was a zombie corpse(@).
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Larix

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Re: Trivial findings
« Reply #685 on: May 14, 2016, 06:41:27 pm »

A bit of research in "numbers behind the scene" for minecarts:

the speed required for "derailing" (ignoring an unforced corner and continuing in a straight line) really is >50k, i.e. anything over 50.000, no matter how little. There'd been a recent edit on the wiki page that claimed it was an unknown number. Not so: a cart going at precisely 50.000 speed takes an unforced corner, a cart going at 50.020 ignores the corner. Anyone who needs any higher degree of precision than that can do the research themselves :P

The shotgun effect (cart expels its cargo/occupant, which keeps going at the speed and in the direction of the pre-shot cart) requires a speed of >55k. To the best of my tallying ability, that's a similarly sharp cutoff - no shot at precisely 55.000, jettisoned cargo at 55.020.

Since carts also loose their cargo when a standing cart is collision-accelerated to >55k (cargo "flies out" at zero speed plus the shotgun-typical random element), the effect is not really tied to a speed but to a speed change of the mentioned magnitude. Point in case: i fabricated frontal collisions between a willow cart containing a kaolinite (275 urists weight) and a date palm wood cart with a hematite boulder (550 urists weight), so that the heavier pushed the lighter cart, resulting in an elastic collision conserving momentum, i.e. the willow-with-kaolinite cart moved off at twice the date-with-hematite (and also its own) pre-collision speed. At a pre-collision speed of a mere 18.340, the kaolinite boulder was expelled:
18.340 pre-collision speed
36.680 post-collision speed in the opposite direction
----------
55020 speed change, enough for the shotgun effect.

The speed was achieved by simultaneously dropping the carts off hatch covers onto track ramps and then guiding each over one medium and two low-friction track stops, and four tiles of normal track. Since they started accelerating in the middle of the ramp, they only received five steps of ramp acceleration, of which one was neutralised by the checkpoint effect, giving them a speed of 19550 before going over enough track stops and normal track to eat away 1210 speed.

As far as i can tell, hatches (and presumably grates and floor bars) opening under a cart directly force the cart into the centre of the tile before dropping it and "softly" set its speed to zero. Regardless of pre-drop subtile position and movement vector, carts always dropped onto the middle of the ramp tile underneath a hatch. Carts going at shotgun-able speed over an opening hatch dropped into the hole without letting go of their cargo. Carts behave differently if "dropped" by letting them fly over a hole and bump into a wall.

PS: speed cutoffs added to "numbers behind the scene"; i also fiddled with the sub-tile explanations some more, cf here.
BTWPS: it's theoretically possible to build a minecart shotgun using no source of acceleration other than dwarven pushes. Shots would travel between both push stations, at under 20.000 speed, and on almost all attempts there wouldn't be a shot at all - carts would need to be pushed almost simultaneously _and_ about 50% of all collisions would auto-fail because the lighter cart would push the heavier one. But dwarven pushes give 20000 speed and - see above - 18340 are enough!
« Last Edit: May 15, 2016, 06:22:26 am by Larix »
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Kogan Onulsodel

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Re: Trivial findings
« Reply #686 on: May 14, 2016, 08:58:39 pm »

Very nice. I do like precision. Wiki updated, I assume.
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nogoodnames

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Re: Trivial findings
« Reply #687 on: May 15, 2016, 05:30:39 pm »

If you drop a book off at a site, that civilization's caravans will be able to sell copies of it. My fort is now mostly necromancers after buying a copy of a book with the secrets of life and death.
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omada

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Re: Trivial findings
« Reply #688 on: May 16, 2016, 06:56:13 am »

PTW
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TheFlame52

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Re: Trivial findings
« Reply #689 on: May 16, 2016, 03:32:18 pm »

Sometimes, in the beginning of worldgen, a poet or other artist will take on an apprentice. That apprentice will move to the town of the master. Eventually, that apprentice will take their own apprentice, sometimes many. The cycle continues. Eventually you have a hamlet that consists of 2/3 poets.
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