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Author Topic: Russia Watch Thread/Ветка о России  (Read 143525 times)

miljan

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Helgoland

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Re: Russia Watch Thread/Ветка о России
« Reply #2611 on: January 23, 2015, 12:09:37 pm »

Unless it is an answer to the same order in Ukrainian forces (I haven't been following the topic for awhile, I don't know if there was one), screw that guy.
Even if it is, it still is unacceptable.
Knit, what's your take on this?
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I'm going to do the smart thing here and disengage. This isn't a hill I paticularly care to die on.

smjjames

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Re: Russia Watch Thread/Ветка о России
« Reply #2612 on: January 23, 2015, 12:12:00 pm »

The head of the People's Republic of Donetsk Alexander Zakharchenko after yesterday's bus stop incident in Donetsk is going to give the order to no longer take prisoners in battle.

If he really does it, then it's going to be a "point of no return". After that - only victory or death.

Extremely stupid move

*wonders if there is anything in the Geneva convention about that* Meh, not like they're signatories to it anyway.

It can also be seen as a desperate move, and possibly opening themselves to war crimes charges.
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Comrade P.

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Re: Russia Watch Thread/Ветка о России
« Reply #2613 on: January 23, 2015, 12:21:38 pm »

On a second though, given the source (vesti.ru) and common tone of the article, it might not happen. Maybe something that he said driven by emotions was quoted by journalists and made into news.

Otherwise, this is one of the worst moves to make. If they do that, they will be no better than the image they make for their opponents.
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Sigs

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miljan

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Re: Russia Watch Thread/Ветка о России
« Reply #2614 on: January 23, 2015, 12:25:55 pm »

The head of the People's Republic of Donetsk Alexander Zakharchenko after yesterday's bus stop incident in Donetsk is going to give the order to no longer take prisoners in battle.

If he really does it, then it's going to be a "point of no return". After that - only victory or death.

Extremely stupid move

*wonders if there is anything in the Geneva convention about that* Meh, not like they're signatories to it anyway.

It can also be seen as a desperate move, and possibly opening themselves to war crimes charges.

Its so much stupid thing to do, and will make things a lot harder that I think that it probably  not going to happen.

I look at the source of that info, and it goes to TASS post of this (dont know should I link it, as the link I got is big, but people can find it from original Sergarr link):
"Following this tragedy, I'm considering an order to take no more prisoners of war because we do not need exchanges," he said.
So from that i am guessing he is really considering it
« Last Edit: January 23, 2015, 12:28:10 pm by miljan »
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Sergarr

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Re: Russia Watch Thread/Ветка о России
« Reply #2615 on: January 23, 2015, 12:28:33 pm »

On a second though, given the source (vesti.ru) and common tone of the article, it might not happen. Maybe something that he said driven by emotions was quoted by journalists and made into news.

Otherwise, this is one of the worst moves to make. If they do that, they will be no better than the image they make for their opponents.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?x-yt-cl=84503534&v=WkBJxoArgnM&x-yt-ts=1421914688

Here's the interview. I'm pretty sure this is not a misquote. He looks pretty serious about this.
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Knit tie

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Re: Russia Watch Thread/Ветка о России
« Reply #2616 on: January 23, 2015, 12:33:37 pm »

Unless it is an answer to the same order in Ukrainian forces (I haven't been following the topic for awhile, I don't know if there was one), screw that guy.
Even if it is, it still is unacceptable.
Knit, what's your take on this?
That's just political posturing that has been exagerrated by the source. Zakharchenko hasn't given the order yet, and I seriously doubt it that he ever will, due to not being an idiot and realising that this will be borderline suicidal. And even then it can be easily shot down by Putin, who still wants to not inflate this conflict any more than necessary.

TL,DR: Like that "gay driver" law - much ado about nothing.
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smjjames

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Re: Russia Watch Thread/Ветка о России
« Reply #2617 on: January 23, 2015, 12:34:15 pm »

He is also saying that he will no longer try to establish a truce and will move his forces to the border and they'll attack if they see a threat. The no longer trying to establish a truce is understandable, given how previous ceasefires and truces went. However, the moving the forces to the border and attacking if they see a threat, well, I can see lots of ways that could go wrong, for one, the Ukranian commanders might view that as an invasion or preparing for an invasion and attack anyway, or they might attack something that they think is a threat and create an even bigger fight.
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Sergarr

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Re: Russia Watch Thread/Ветка о России
« Reply #2618 on: January 23, 2015, 12:36:56 pm »

Unless it is an answer to the same order in Ukrainian forces (I haven't been following the topic for awhile, I don't know if there was one), screw that guy.
Even if it is, it still is unacceptable.
Knit, what's your take on this?
That's just political posturing that has been exagerrated by the source. Zakharchenko hasn't given the order yet, and I seriously doubt it that he ever will, due to not being an idiot and realising that this will be borderline suicidal. And even then it can be easily shot down by Putin, who still wants to not inflate this conflict any more than necessary.

TL,DR: Like that "gay driver" law - much ado about nothing.
Have you actually listened to the interview? Did you hear how he said the words "I'll give an order to no longer take prisoners"?

He will fucking do it. He's a serious as a person at war can be.
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Knit tie

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Re: Russia Watch Thread/Ветка о России
« Reply #2619 on: January 23, 2015, 12:39:57 pm »

He is also saying that he will no longer try to establish a truce and will move his forces to the border and they'll attack if they see a threat. The no longer trying to establish a truce is understandable, given how previous ceasefires and truces went. However, the moving the forces to the border and attacking if they see a threat, well, I can see lots of ways that could go wrong, for one, the Ukranian commanders might view that as an invasion or preparing for an invasion and attack anyway, or they might attack something that they think is a threat and create an even bigger fight.
He says something quite different in Russian: Zakharchenko wants no further truces until the Ukrainians have been kicked out of the Donetskaya and Luganskaya oblasts, but then the rebel advance will stop period, with no further attacks into the territory of Ukraine proper, and he also states that all attacking forces will be responded to with force. There's nothing about any preemptive attacks there.

Unless it is an answer to the same order in Ukrainian forces (I haven't been following the topic for awhile, I don't know if there was one), screw that guy.
Even if it is, it still is unacceptable.
Knit, what's your take on this?
That's just political posturing that has been exagerrated by the source. Zakharchenko hasn't given the order yet, and I seriously doubt it that he ever will, due to not being an idiot and realising that this will be borderline suicidal. And even then it can be easily shot down by Putin, who still wants to not inflate this conflict any more than necessary.

TL,DR: Like that "gay driver" law - much ado about nothing.
Have you actually listened to the interview? Did you hear how he said the words "I'll give an order to no longer take prisoners"?

He will fucking do it. He's a serious as a person at war can be.
Sergarr, do you honestly think a politician can't simply make threats? To sound threatening and then do nothing afterwards?
« Last Edit: January 23, 2015, 12:41:28 pm by Knit tie »
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Comrade P.

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Re: Russia Watch Thread/Ветка о России
« Reply #2620 on: January 23, 2015, 12:44:41 pm »

He is also saying that he will no longer try to establish a truce and will move his forces to the border and they'll attack if they see a threat. The no longer trying to establish a truce is understandable, given how previous ceasefires and truces went. However, the moving the forces to the border and attacking if they see a threat, well, I can see lots of ways that could go wrong, for one, the Ukranian commanders might view that as an invasion or preparing for an invasion and attack anyway, or they might attack something that they think is a threat and create an even bigger fight.

He mentions that he will push Ukrainian forces form the cities and won't remove the forces from the front line.

He uses a peculiar term for Front line - разграничительная линия - which means "the line that divides". It may refer to state borders, but it may refer to front line as well. That might be the cause of the misconception.
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Sigs

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Knit tie

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Re: Russia Watch Thread/Ветка о России
« Reply #2621 on: January 23, 2015, 12:46:07 pm »

How about we wait a bit and see what he actually does, instead of reading into his words? I think that would be a smarter thing to do.
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smjjames

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Re: Russia Watch Thread/Ветка о России
« Reply #2622 on: January 23, 2015, 12:46:37 pm »

I meant from the Ukranian perspective, given how that's what Russia did, quick build up and then surprise attack. Seriously doubt the Donbass people would be able to pull that off on that kind of scale though.

It's also possible something got lost in the translation because Google translate.
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Comrade P.

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Re: Russia Watch Thread/Ветка о России
« Reply #2623 on: January 23, 2015, 12:49:27 pm »

How about we wait a bit and see what he actually does, instead of reading into his words? I think that would be a smarter thing to do.

Fully agreed.
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Sigs

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smjjames

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Re: Russia Watch Thread/Ветка о России
« Reply #2624 on: January 23, 2015, 12:51:26 pm »

How about we wait a bit and see what he actually does, instead of reading into his words? I think that would be a smarter thing to do.

True, it could be hot air for all we know.

Fully agreed.
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